Another new Brexit thread

[mcfc1632]

Yes. Well apart from your earlier post which stated

‘No deal presents major problems and will cause difficulties for years to come...’

I’m ok with you dismissing your own posts as wrong, after all everyone else does, but it can’t do much for your self esteem.

That is possibly the 'best' example of disingenuous posting that I have seen on these threads for two reasons:

1. You only quote back one of the 3 scenarios I posted - I assume to enable you to take things out of context - I clearly state that Remain and the WA options are far more detrimental to the UK and

2. What you post has nothing at all to do with the point I was making when I state that you are patently and demonstrably wrong to say:

"To prepare for a no deal scenario properly would take a decade ……"

You can either not differentiate between what constitutes planning/prepaeation and what is required to achieve implementation - or you are being disingenuous - I cannot see another option

 

[Vic]

That is possibly the 'best' example of disingenuous posting that I have seen on these threads for two reasons:

1. You only quote back one of the 3 scenarios I posted - I assume to enable you to take things out of context - I clearly state that Remain and the WA options are far more detrimental to the UK and

2. What you post has nothing at all to do with the point I was making when I state that you are patently and demonstrably wrong to say:

"To prepare for a no deal scenario properly would take a decade ……"

You can either not differentiate between what constitutes planning/prepaeation and what is required to achieve implementation - or you are being disingenuous - I cannot see another option

‘No deal presents major problems and will cause difficulties for years to come...’

is what we agree on. Your other options are mere speculation on your belief about the long-term, and in the long-term we're all dead.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Latest contributions released. Bargain.


Britain’s contribution to the EU has shot up by £2.6 billion per cent in the past 12 months, new Treasury figures show, as the UK’s growing economy was used to prop up Brussels’ budget.

An “eye-popping” £15.5 billion was sent across the Channel in the year ending March 31, compared with £12.9 billion the year before - an increase of 20 per cent.

The extra money would be enough to put 50,000 more police officers on the streets or fund 81,000 social care beds.

Brexiteers said the increase was yet more evidence that Britain must leave the EU as soon as possible to stop taxpayers’ money “pouring into bottomless EU coffers”.

 

[blueinsa]

Latest contributions released. Bargain.


Britain’s contribution to the EU has shot up by £2.6 billion per cent in the past 12 months, new Treasury figures show, as the UK’s growing economy was used to prop up Brussels’ budget.

An “eye-popping” £15.5 billion was sent across the Channel in the year ending March 31, compared with £12.9 billion the year before - an increase of 20 per cent.

The extra money would be enough to put 50,000 more police officers on the streets or fund 81,000 social care beds.

Brexiteers said the increase was yet more evidence that Britain must leave the EU as soon as possible to stop taxpayers’ money “pouring into bottomless EU coffers”.

Forget the police or social care beds and look out for an EU sign next to a flower bed and just be glad.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Latest contributions released. Bargain.


Britain’s contribution to the EU has shot up by £2.6 billion per cent in the past 12 months, new Treasury figures show, as the UK’s growing economy was used to prop up Brussels’ budget.

An “eye-popping” £15.5 billion was sent across the Channel in the year ending March 31, compared with £12.9 billion the year before - an increase of 20 per cent.

The extra money would be enough to put 50,000 more police officers on the streets or fund 81,000 social care beds.

Brexiteers said the increase was yet more evidence that Britain must leave the EU as soon as possible to stop taxpayers’ money “pouring into bottomless EU coffers”.

The better we do, the more we get charged.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Forget the police or social care beds and look out for an EU sign next to a flower bed and just be glad.

Name another large govt expenditure that goes up 20% in one year.

And it’s nit because it’s costs that are needed to sure up a hole or something unexpected .

Nope it’s gone up 20% simply because our economy has done better and therefore the Eu demand more

 

[blueinsa]

Name another large govt expenditure that goes up 20% in one year.

And it’s nit because it’s costs that are needed to sure up a hole or something unexpected .

Nope it’s gone up 20% simply because our economy has done better and therefore the Eu demand more

Can’t be true I’m afraid mate.

Economy is tanking, millions out of work, sterling worth less than a Zimbabwean Dollar.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

The better we do, the more we get charged.

Yes, it would be much fairer to charge countries more, the worse their economies were doing.

 

[Rascal]

I have just watched the panorama programme.

What astonishes me most is not the practicalities of the whole episode but the ego's of those involved. It is obvious to me that the good of the nation comes second to the good of the personal ego. Those who are the most intransigent have the biggest ego's and they are the most fearful of losing face. It is personal to them and we the people are not their concern. When you base your argument on who believes the most it is not putting the nations interests first, it is putting themselves first and it is putting their need for personal gratification in front of any collaborative outcome. As a nation we are being sacrificed upon the altars of there ego's and whether you voted leave or remain, whether you are a believer in a noble cause or not you do not matter. What matters is personal advancement and personal gain.

I am surprised by the fact that having watched it the only party I feel that really does do their voters proud is the DUP who are steadfast in their position and are not prepared to compromise on it. That is their right, they have to stand for their voters and respect the wishes of those who elected them. Mrs May who I believe to be one of the worst Prime Ministers in history actually comes out of the program quite well, she was obviously at the mercy of those whose ego's meant more to them than her efforts to deliver and I actually felt for her, as bad as she was she deserved better. The EU representatives on the program came out of it looking fair minded and balanced and they showed a far greater sense of affection towards the UK than I imagined from reading the media reports of the events. The guy who put forward the argument that the German car industry would not dream of making any demands because of the greater need for EU co-operation in a cultural and historical sense makes a point I really had not considered at great length, mainly because I suppose those with the ego's always assumed the German car industry would put there profits before the good of the EU and the media always side with the ego's not the practicalities.

It was quite a sober watch and I came out of it with a grim realisation that we as a nation have been manipulated in a way we have not been since the farcical times of the Iraq war debate. We are at the mercy of charlatans and whether you support Brexit or not that is not a good place to be. I didn't vote remain, I didn't vote leave, I abstained because my preferred option of greater EU integration and a federal EU was never an option. After last nights program I am more convinced then ever that we need to re-evaluate the whole episode and either leave with no deal or stay and push for a fully Federal EU with an elected President, a powerful elected legislature and a system of regional parliaments. The remain/status quo position is untenable, a second referendum would only serve the ego's and we deserve better than what we have been given.

 

[George Hannah]

I have just watched the panorama programme.

What astonishes me most is not the practicalities of the whole episode but the ego's of those involved. It is obvious to me that the good of the nation comes second to the good of the personal ego. Those who are the most intransigent have the biggest ego's and they are the most fearful of losing face. It is personal to them and we the people are not their concern. When you base your argument on who believes the most it is not putting the nations interests first, it is putting themselves first and it is putting their need for personal gratification in front of any collaborative outcome. As a nation we are being sacrificed upon the altars of there ego's and whether you voted leave or remain, whether you are a believer in a noble cause or not you do not matter. What matters is personal advancement and personal gain.

I am surprised by the fact that having watched it the only party I feel that really does do their voters proud is the DUP who are steadfast in their position and are not prepared to compromise on it. That is their right, they have to stand for their voters and respect the wishes of those who elected them. Mrs May who I believe to be one of the worst Prime Ministers in history actually comes out of the program quite well, she was obviously at the mercy of those whose ego's meant more to them than her efforts to deliver and I actually felt for her, as bad as she was she deserved better. The EU representatives on the program came out of it looking fair minded and balanced and they showed a far greater sense of affection towards the UK than I imagined from reading the media reports of the events. The guy who put forward the argument that the German car industry would not dream of making any demands because of the greater need for EU co-operation in a cultural and historical sense makes a point I really had not considered at great length, mainly because I suppose those with the ego's always assumed the German car industry would put there profits before the good of the EU and the media always side with the ego's not the practicalities.

It was quite a sober watch and I came out of it with a grim realisation that we as a nation have been manipulated in a way we have not been since the farcical times of the Iraq war debate. We are at the mercy of charlatans and whether you support Brexit or not that is not a good place to be. I didn't vote remain, I didn't vote leave, I abstained because my preferred option of greater EU integration and a federal EU was never an option. After last nights program I am more convinced then ever that we need to re-evaluate the whole episode and either leave with no deal or stay and push for a fully Federal EU with an elected President, a powerful elected legislature and a system of regional parliaments. The remain/status quo position is untenable, a second referendum would only serve the ego's and we deserve better than what we have been given.

Cheer up Rascal, looks like we're staying and your dream that our country will be swallowed by a federal empire run by those fair-minded, balanced chaps like Selmayr may come true.

 

[Rascal]

Cheer up Rascal, looks like we're staying and your dream that our country will be swallowed by a federal empire run by those fair-minded, balanced chaps like Selmayr may come true.

You don't get it do you. Remaining is status quo. That's not what I want.

The whole EU should be reimagined, so it is not run by any fair minded chaps, it is run by democratic means that meet Tony Benn's tests of what a democracy actual is.

 

[Vic]

Latest contributions released. Bargain.


Britain’s contribution to the EU has shot up by £2.6 billion per cent in the past 12 months, new Treasury figures show, as the UK’s growing economy was used to prop up Brussels’ budget.

An “eye-popping” £15.5 billion was sent across the Channel in the year ending March 31, compared with £12.9 billion the year before - an increase of 20 per cent.

The extra money would be enough to put 50,000 more police officers on the streets or fund 81,000 social care beds.

Brexiteers said the increase was yet more evidence that Britain must leave the EU as soon as possible to stop taxpayers’ money “pouring into bottomless EU coffers”.

I'd like to see some original source for this (and I don't mean the Telegraph whence it came). I'm obviously suspicious because of the reference to our "growing economy" which is plainly ridiculous unless they mean the economy before we decided to leave the EU. Ok it's still growing but barely.

 

[Vic]

The better we do, the more we get charged.

And we have done a lot better in the EU. Seems fair enough.

 

[Metal Biker]

Latest contributions released. Bargain.


Britain’s contribution to the EU has shot up by £2.6 billion per cent in the past 12 months, new Treasury figures show, as the UK’s growing economy was used to prop up Brussels’ budget.

An “eye-popping” £15.5 billion was sent across the Channel in the year ending March 31, compared with £12.9 billion the year before - an increase of 20 per cent.

The extra money would be enough to put 50,000 more police officers on the streets or fund 81,000 social care beds.

Brexiteers said the increase was yet more evidence that Britain must leave the EU as soon as possible to stop taxpayers’ money “pouring into bottomless EU coffers”.

Any information from the EU on what this £2.6bn was required for/will be used for?

Asking for a friend.

 

[Vic]

Can’t be true I’m afraid mate.

Economy is tanking, millions out of work, sterling worth less than a Zimbabwean Dollar.

That's what I thought. Can't be true. Certainly only half a story...

 

[George Hannah]

You don't get it do you. Remaining is status quo. That's not what I want.
The whole EU should be reimagined, so it is not run by any fair minded chaps, it is run by democratic means that meet Tony Benn's tests of what a democracy actual is.

Exactly why he was violently opposed to the EU, once inside the superstate there is no democratic way of changing it or getting out, that is the whole point. So why didn't you vote leave?

 

[Vic]

Any information from the EU on what this £2.6bn was required for/will be used for?

Asking for a friend.

If no one can cite the source (before the brexitgraph puts its slant on it) it's unlikely but (a) we'll get half of it spent in the UK and (b) it will be half of Germany's net contribution.

 

[Vic]

Exactly why he was violently opposed to the EU, once inside the superstate there is no democratic way of changing it or getting out, that is the whole point. So why didn't you vote leave?

The world has changed since Tony Benn was against the EU. And he was against Parliament losing its sovereignty - yet our sovereign Parliament ordered an advisory referendum and, given a free hand, our sovereign Parliament would stay in the EU.

 

[George Hannah]

The world has changed since Tony Benn was against the EU. And he was against Parliament losing its sovereignty - yet our sovereign Parliament ordered an advisory referendum and, given a free hand, our sovereign Parliament would stay in the EU.

It was a referendum where both parties and sides assured us they would abide by and implement the result. 'Advisory' was a a mere technicality - on 9 June 2015, the then Foreign Secretary said the “decision about our membership should be taken by the British people, not by Whitehall bureaucrats, certainly not by Brussels Eurocrats; not even by Government Ministers or parliamentarians in this Chamber”.

 

[yerwot?]

"britain is booming", was that on the side of a bus?