Var debate 2019/20

[Blue Mist]

Said all along it would be used as a tool to manipulate results and that’s exactly what is happening. If Liverpool or the rags scored that goal yesterday it would never have been reviewed by the VAR and we would all be none the wiser regarding the “handball”.

you have summed up my thought. Let us bring this post back up at the end of the season. No one will be able to highlight a disallowed goal for the Rags or Dippers, no one. It will not happen. But, watch the Rodri penalty be given time and again for both teams.

 

[blue moony]

If they want to keep this crock of shit in the game then there has to be audio broadcast from the ref and var ref so everyone can hear it , like in cricket and rugby ! They can’t cheat then ...

Also Refs should now have to do post match interviews ,,,,,

It’s stacked up to much in the favour of the ref to just do what the duck he wants and has to answer to no one....

With as much on the line for every club in the league why are they letting a bunch of jumped up self righteous substandard referees hold all the cards !

 

[Uwe's Legend]

So having slept on it, hoping to calm down, I'm still fuming.

Fuming that having watch City play some incredible, fantastic and mesmerising football and totally dominating a cowardly Spurs team, we still ended up with only one point.

Fuming that out of 30 chances created that we only scored 2 (3 really!) goals and allowed Spurs to score 2 from 2. I have always said that if you are so wasteful with your chances then the football gods will kick you in the bollocks, and very rarely am I proved wrong.

But, I have to save the larger part of my wrath for what is becoming the increasingly more frequent and obvious dishonest officiating directed towards my team. The one (probably two) penalty decisions 'missed' by Oliver and clearly blatantly ignored by VAR were a disgrace. And it is unquestionably apparent that any match winning or influencing goal scored by City will be scrutinised to a level way above that of any of our rivals.
Sure, they'll give us the odd VAR decision when it doesn't really matter, like the retake of Aguero's goal in order to throw us off the scent, but Jesus' goal yesterday and Raz being 1mm offside has already highlighted what they're up to imo.

So where does that leave me going forward?

I saw enough over that last two games to show we are so far above anyone else that once we get our sharpness and fitness up to speed over the coming weeks there isn't a football team in the land that is going to stop us. that's where the EPL, PiGMOL and VAR come in!!

We need to get behind the Blues, face up to this shit together and win this league in spite of their best efforts.

If we win the league this year it will be the best ever and one of Pep's greatest achievement.

COME ON YOU BLUES!

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Posted this in the post match thread but probably should have gone in here

That non penalty decision is a classic example where the VAR official should have advised the ref to go and review it on a monitor once there is a break in play (or the attack is over) - he's not over ruling him and leaving it with the on field official but saying - it’s not a clear and obvious error but you need to take a look. It wouldn’t surprise me if this becomes a 'learning point' and they tweak the process - that way we can get shafted by it in the future

This process definitely seems poor.
The PL have decided that there should be minimal pitchside review; essentially, that the on-field ref can apparently decide to stay with his own decision. I assume a more obvious penalty (and there could be a lot more obvious) would be reviewed, but it will be interesting to see how these things are dealt with in the future.

 

[blue moony]

you have summed up my thought. Let us bring this post back up at the end of the season. No one will be able to highlight a disallowed goal for the Rags or Dippers, no one. It will not happen. But, watch the Rodri penalty be given time and again for both teams.

Uniteds Third the other day when a Chelsea player was fouled in the build up ! That was pulled back so it’s all fair !!!!

Oh wait a minute it wasn’t !!!!

Told you EPL = WWE

 

[urban genie]

Said all along it would be used as a tool to manipulate results and that’s exactly what is happening. If Liverpool or the rags scored that goal yesterday it would never have been reviewed by the VAR and we would all be none the wiser regarding the “handball”.

It would have been reviewed as all goals are reviewed, however, I suspect oliver woyld have reviewed it also and let it stand against some teams

 

[Chris in London]

There’s nowt wrong with the goal being disallowed. I think a lot of people are getting confused why so many people are so angry with VAR.

By the new handball laws of the game, that was definitely handball by Laporte and therefore no goal. The attacking team cannot have a player have the ball hit his arm in any way whatsoever, intentional or non-intentional, slight contact for full, it’s the new handball law and that was handball.

But that’s not why so many of us are so upset with VAR. So many of us are so upset with it because I and many others didn’t really celebrate any goals yesterday. Not properly. Because we’re all waiting for VAR. The ball hits the net and you’re immediate thought it “YEE.. oh hang on, what’s the ref doing? Is it going to be given?” And even when it is given you’re not really sure.

We’re in the stadium, the game is being played for us, in front of us, and we don’t know what’s going on. We can no longer celebrate any goal with any certainty and it’s the death of the beautiful game.

I said it yesterday, VAR is even ruining goals it doesn’t rule out.

And THAT is what’s wrong with VAR. Not whether it rightly rules goals out even for the most minor infringements.

If that WAS the law I’d agree. But it isn’t. The premier league explained the new law like this:

“Any goal scored or created with the use of the hand or arm will be disallowed this season even if it is accidental.”

So it isn’t any contact with the arm/hand at all, it’s contact that results in a goal being scored. In other words, it isn’t handball if the contact is irrelevant to the goal being scored.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Said all along it would be used as a tool to manipulate results and that’s exactly what is happening. If Liverpool or the rags scored that goal yesterday it would never have been reviewed by the VAR and we would all be none the wiser regarding the “handball”.

All goals are reviewed by VAR. Every single one.

 

[Fred_Quimby]

So having slept on it, hoping to calm down, I'm still fuming.

Fuming that having watch City play some incredible, fantastic and mesmerising football and totally dominating a cowardly Spurs team, we still ended up with only one point.

Fuming that out of 30 chances created that we only scored 2 (3 really!) goals and allowed Spurs to score 2 from 2. I have always said that if you are so wasteful with your chances then the football gods will kick you in the bollocks, and very rarely am I proved wrong.

But, I have to save the larger part of my wrath for what is becoming the increasingly more frequent and obvious dishonest officiating directed towards my team. The one (probably two) penalty decisions 'missed' by Oliver and clearly blatantly ignored by VAR were a disgrace. And it is unquestionably apparent that any match winning or influencing goal scored by City will be scrutinised to a level way above that of any of our rivals.
Sure, they'll give us the odd VAR decision when it doesn't really matter, like the retake of Aguero's goal in order to throw us off the scent, but Jesus' goal yesterday and Raz being 1mm offside has already highlighted what they're up to imo.

So where does that leave me going forward?

I saw enough over that last two games to show we are so far above anyone else that once we get our sharpness and fitness up to speed over the coming weeks there isn't a football team in the land that is going to stop us. that's where the EPL, PiGMOL and VAR come in!!

We need to get behind the Blues, face up to this shit together and win this league in spite of their best efforts.

If we win the league this year it will be the best ever and one of Pep's greatest achievement.

COME ON YOU BLUES!

Totally agree.

THREEPEAT

 

[oxford_blue]

There’s 2 issues here:
1) the ridiculous handball rule
2) VAR in general

Yesterday really brought home (1) for me. As I see it the ball flicked Laporte’s arm and probably flicked the spurs defenders arm as well. Assuming that’s right that means that any goal spurs scored would also be disallowed. So if the ball had dropped to a spurs player instead of Jesus and they’d broken away to score a last minute winner VAR would have disallowed it and given handball against the spurs defender I.e a penalty for city. That’s ridiculous. But you can make it even more ridiculous- if Jesus had, instead of shooting at the spurs goal had hoofed the ball back to ederson and he rolled it into an empty city net then again VAR would presumably have overruled it and given city a penalty...

To be fair though although this is massively annoying it’s not as annoying as issue (2) which is VAR itself. The number of times you hear pundits on telly defending VAR saying “the most important thing is that the decisions are right”. No it isn’t. For people in the ground or watching live on TV the most important thing is the decision is immediate (at least with goals). The whole thing about football is the release of scoring an important goal and VAR takes that away. I am more than willing to have some goals wrongly given or ruled out over the course of the season because it retains the passion. For people watching the highlights later or reading a match report after the final whistle it’s different- they don’t experience the joy/pain of scoring or conceding a goal so only care about if the decision was right or not.

The final bit of my rant is how the FA/UEFA could use VAR and not ruin the game. Personally from watching 30+ years of live football there are 2 really exciting moments that shouldn’t be interfered with (1) scoring a goal and (2) a penalty being saved. With both of these I think it has to be down to the on field ref to immediately give a decision. We’ve all started celebrating a goal only to have it chalked off by a linesman’s flag and this is annoying but at a completely different level to VAR. If VAR can be applied to offside as quickly as a linesman sticks his flag up then I’m in favour of it being used for offside, but it currently cannot. The good thing about the goal-line technology introduced is that it is immediate and therefore I’m in favour of that. I would also rule out VAR interfering with penalty re-takes. If the on-field ref team notice an infringement and blow immediately then fair enough but otherwise just let the supporters get on with celebrating either a goal or a miss. Where I think VAR can be used is for decisions that don’t have the instant release. I can think of 4: (1) Penalties being awarded/not awarded. (2) Mistaken identity on a card. (3) when a player has dived and been given a free kick (anywhere on the pitch) (4) straight red cards. And yes there’s a degree of debate to be had over how “certain” these decisions need to be before VAR gets involved. For me scrap VAR interfering with the moments of joy- goals.

Rant over

 

[Deleted member 77198]

If that WAS the law I’d agree. But it isn’t. The premier league explained the new law like this:

“Any goal scored or created with the use of the hand or arm will be disallowed this season even if it is accidental.”

So it isn’t any contact with the arm/hand at all, it’s contact that results in a goal being scored. In other words, it isn’t handball if the contact is irrelevant to the goal being scored.

“it is an offence if a player gains possession/control of the ball after it has touched their hand/arm and then scores in the opponents’ goal, creates a goal-scoring opportunity or scores in the opponents’ goal directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental.”
http://www.thefa.com/football-rules.../football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct

 

[Lancet Fluke]

Said all along it would be used as a tool to manipulate results and that’s exactly what is happening. If Liverpool or the rags scored that goal yesterday it would never have been reviewed by the VAR and we would all be none the wiser regarding the “handball”.

I said this when the rags got that pen at PSG. Nobody in the stadium appeared to be appealing for handball, the commentators didn't see anything and nobody watching at home saw a handball. So nobody saw it and if the VAR ref hadn't highlighted it then nobody would have been any the wiser. So, in that instance, how do we know that something similar hadn't occurred several times over the two legs and not been reviewed? Essentially you are at the mercy of someone who is micro-refereeing a match via ultra slow motion replays and technically can pick and choose which things that haven't been seen by the naked eye he wants to review. Suddenly the lack of transparency there and the scope for manipulation is absolutely startling.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

“The referees’ chief Mike Riley has revealed that video assistant referees will not impose the tough line on handballs in the Premier League next season that has led to numerous controversial penalties in the Women’s World Cup and Champions League.

Riley, the managing director of the Professional Game Match Officials Ltd (PGMOL), said that many of the penalties awarded for handball in the Women’s World Cup and Champions League — including those awarded against Tottenham Hotspur’s Danny Rose and Moussa Sissoko in the Champions League quarter-final and final respectively — would not be given in the Premier League.

The former top-flight referee said that officials will be told to minimise the disruptive impact of VARs by having “a high line of intervention”. It comes after fears that overuse of video reviews is ruining the flow and spectacle of the game. Despite the handball law, which came into force across all competitions last month, Riley thinks that there is flexibility for English football to interpret it in a way that will not cause a big increase in the number of spot-kicks.

It was revealed last month that VARs in the Premier League will not rule on whether a goalkeeper moves off the line at penalties, leaving that decision to on-field officials, and that referees will be told not to consult pitchside monitors to minimise delays”

So Mr rag Riley what changed, did Mr Graham Scott not get the message, or did he apply the exception, except when it’s City?

I think that's a totally different part of the handball law.

The one in question yesterday was about whether a goal can be scored.
The quote above is about giving penalties for handball.

 

[give it to gordon]

If we want football to be clean, as I am sure we all do. Than the VAR ref should be put in front of the camera and he explains we the foul on Roddy wasnt a pen yet a few minutes later Sterling did a little tug and was booked !!

At the end of the day the VAR ref will be 100% sure he made the right call so I see no harm in him telling us what he saw and what we didnt

 

[GSW Blue]

Having watched MOTD this morning and seen some of the ridiculous decisions in other games, I am now convinced that VAR is a big part of an elaborate betting scam.

 

[Blue Mist]

All goals are reviewed by VAR. Every single one.

Yes but the result of the review would be the total opposite to what happened yesterday. no way would they have made that decision if the scum scored it.

 

[Newman Noggs]

you have summed up my thought. Let us bring this post back up at the end of the season. No one will be able to highlight a disallowed goal for the Rags or Dippers, no one. It will not happen. But, watch the Rodri penalty be given time and again for both teams.

Statistically, I reckon both will have marginally less decisions go against them so that it isn't immediately obvious what is going on and they can use the "swings and roundabouts argument.

The devil will be in the detail of when and in which games those decisions go against them. Neither will have a late match winner disallowed nor will a decisive penalty be given against them in an important game.

I was trying to think how many extra time winners we scored last year. The year before, we scored some notable very late winners but not, as far as I can recall, last year.

The last two, as far as I can recall, both against Spurs have been disallowed.

 

[stonerblue]

Are all the var advocates still in bed?

 

[Fred_Quimby]

If that WAS the law I’d agree. But it isn’t. The premier league explained the new law like this:

“Any goal scored or created with the use of the hand or arm will be disallowed this season even if it is accidental.”

So it isn’t any contact with the arm/hand at all, it’s contact that results in a goal being scored. In other words, it isn’t handball if the contact is irrelevant to the goal being scored.

The problem was that it didn't leed to a goal. Jesus still had to collect the ball, turn and move across into a shooting position. Before shooting and scoring. Would agree if the ball had fallen at his feet and he had shot straight away.

 

[Chris in London]

“it is an offence if a player gains possession/control of the ball after it has touched their hand/arm and then scores in the opponents’ goal, creates a goal-scoring opportunity or scores in the opponents’ goal directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental.”
http://www.thefa.com/football-rules.../football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct

Yep, the key word is “creates.” It cannot be said that Laporte’s handball created the goal scoring opportunity, I would say.