BobKowalski
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Tory MP Rory Stewart getting saucy...
Another new Brexit thread
- Thread starter Ric
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johnnytapia
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johnnytapia
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Has he discovered how to sit on a chair properly yet or do his legs still dangle like a 3yr old at the breakfast table? Poor Rory, like a team knocked out in the 5th round telling everyone that the cup holders aren't nice.
bluethrunthru
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or you could read the research instead of being ignorant. here you go. http://www.florianfoos.net/resources/Foos_Bischof_Hillsborough_APSA.pdf
bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
'kinell man - don't introduce facts to this debate - they don't want to see evidence
What? Does this mean you've been making the snide remarks without even knowing what the issue is? No wonder you missed the point.
johnnytapia
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leavingEUi,c,t,r = α + γMerseysidei,c + λpost Hillsboroughi,t+ β(Merseyside × post Hillsboroughi,c,t) + ς 0Xi,c + τt + ρr + i,c,t
There you have it. The algorithm that proves Remain were right all along. Please keep 'em coming. This is fucking hilarious.
gordondaviesmoustache
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You forgot to carry the three.
johnnytapia
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Mane, Firminho and Salah?
gordondaviesmoustache
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Class, dignity, respect.
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese
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I think the answer to this is we'll probably have to wait and see. In any negotiation things only tend to move once those involved have their options compressed by a deadline. I understand concerns with this sort of brinkmanship, but compared to May who just seemed to put everyone's backs up with her red lines and capitulate in every other respect BJ on the face of it seems to be doing OK. At the very least he does seem able to build rapport which is the starting point in any negotiation. Not a BJ fan btw, but am prepared to at least see what he comes up with rather than prejudge how he's handling things just because he's not my cup of tea politically.
Dribble
Well-Known Member
Brexit is a political self interest ideology, which isn't based on common sense.
When they say 'We want our country back!' The 'We' isn't us the majority, it's the elite who want a return to a pre WW2 Britain, where they could do what the fuck they wanted to the British masses, and there was no-one to stop them.
Chlorinated chicken from the US?
EU: fuck that!!
Nazi Nigel & his far right cohorts? Bloody foreigners & their red tape stopping us making big time chlorinated chicken money!
Aussie hormone treated beef, with scientific proof that at least one of hormones is a carcinogenic?
EU: Fuck that!
Nazi Nigel & his far right cohorts? Bloody foreigners & their red tape stopping us making big time hormone treated beef money!
And don't get me started on the dangerous cars, electrical goods and toys that will flood the UK after Brexit, but which are currently banned by the EU for its citizen's safety.
The far right can only be successful in their rhetoric if they manage to convince decent moderate members of the public, that all they're doing is defending the UK's interests. Are they fuck! Does any of this sound familiar? Hitler used a similar tactic to convince his public that all Germany's ills were down to the Jews. Boris & Nazi Nige have done the same against the EU & to underpin this, they've aligned & shielded themselves behind Trump. Trump has used the classic Nazi tactic of claiming the media who are against him are all enemies of the state pedalling fake news, in defence of those he chooses to target. Boris is now doing the same with MPs worried about the effects a no deal Brexit will have on our economy.
The Nazi's claimed all they were doing was defending their nation's interests, just like Fleece-Smogg who trying to prove his dedication to the Brexit cause, has opened a branch of his investment company in Ireland & is planning to open another in France. What about putting all that investment in the UK Smoggy, just like you've told the people of the UK to do? What's good for the goose & all that???
If all Bexiteers truly had the good of the UK at heart, now we know there are 3 options: No Deal, May's deal, or leave it well alone, why the fear of having a confirmatory referendum?
If you buy a financial product, you're entitled to a cooling off period, so why not apply the same to Brexit?
I hear some ready to say 'Leave meant leave'. Well didn't 'Join mean join' in the 1975 referendum?
If Brexiteers couldn't respect that result, why should anyone respect the 2016 result? Best out of three anyone?
Be careful what you wish for.
When they say 'We want our country back!' The 'We' isn't us the majority, it's the elite who want a return to a pre WW2 Britain, where they could do what the fuck they wanted to the British masses, and there was no-one to stop them.
Chlorinated chicken from the US?
EU: fuck that!!
Nazi Nigel & his far right cohorts? Bloody foreigners & their red tape stopping us making big time chlorinated chicken money!
Aussie hormone treated beef, with scientific proof that at least one of hormones is a carcinogenic?
EU: Fuck that!
Nazi Nigel & his far right cohorts? Bloody foreigners & their red tape stopping us making big time hormone treated beef money!
And don't get me started on the dangerous cars, electrical goods and toys that will flood the UK after Brexit, but which are currently banned by the EU for its citizen's safety.
The far right can only be successful in their rhetoric if they manage to convince decent moderate members of the public, that all they're doing is defending the UK's interests. Are they fuck! Does any of this sound familiar? Hitler used a similar tactic to convince his public that all Germany's ills were down to the Jews. Boris & Nazi Nige have done the same against the EU & to underpin this, they've aligned & shielded themselves behind Trump. Trump has used the classic Nazi tactic of claiming the media who are against him are all enemies of the state pedalling fake news, in defence of those he chooses to target. Boris is now doing the same with MPs worried about the effects a no deal Brexit will have on our economy.
The Nazi's claimed all they were doing was defending their nation's interests, just like Fleece-Smogg who trying to prove his dedication to the Brexit cause, has opened a branch of his investment company in Ireland & is planning to open another in France. What about putting all that investment in the UK Smoggy, just like you've told the people of the UK to do? What's good for the goose & all that???
If all Bexiteers truly had the good of the UK at heart, now we know there are 3 options: No Deal, May's deal, or leave it well alone, why the fear of having a confirmatory referendum?
If you buy a financial product, you're entitled to a cooling off period, so why not apply the same to Brexit?
I hear some ready to say 'Leave meant leave'. Well didn't 'Join mean join' in the 1975 referendum?
If Brexiteers couldn't respect that result, why should anyone respect the 2016 result? Best out of three anyone?
Be careful what you wish for.
smudgedj
Well-Known Member
Well the answer is clearly that they continue to have no need to.
I am sure that the point that I would have been making - because it is obvious to anyone that is not digging a hole rather than admit that they are wrong - is that you are just continuing to show how you cannot grasp simple and basic matters of negotiations and implementation planning
I have already explained:
a) That there has not been any need for the EU to move at all to this point because they have not yet faced a viable no-deal proposition nor witnessed the political will to use it - that simple fact proves your comments to be simply and plainly wrong
b) That it remains clear to the EU that their sycophants are acting to seek to make sure that the EU does not have to face a viable no-deal proposition and ensure that the EU will ever witness the political will to use it - were you not watching the news yesterday ? - were you nor aware of the meeting of the rebel alliance? - that simple fact proves your comments to be simply and plainly wrong. Why on earth would the EU move at all when they can observe from the sidelines the UK trying to undermine itself?
Therefore it is obvious that any statement by anyone - either on this forum or in the press etc. - that the EU have been facing a viable No-Deal prospect that is backed up by the political will of the HoC to use it is, IMO (and anyone objective I suggest), simply either the tired arguments of someone that cannot grasp basics, or of someone that can never admit when they have gotten matters wrong - and prefer to keep digging a hole and twist words in their desperation.
The test will come if ever the EU find that the UK government cannot be stopped by Westminster from exiting with a No-Deal (so obviously that has not happened yet) and believe that Johnson will actually do it (he has probably gotten himself into a place he cannot back away from). Guess what that situation will mean? Yes - the EU will be, for the first time, facing the prospect of a viable no-deal proposition and, again for the first time, they will be witnessing the political will to use it
FWIW - should the EU ever be faced with a viable no-deal proposition and are sure that their is the political will to use it - I suspect that they will a) not reopen the backstop (they have gotten the themselves into a place where that cannot be an option) and b) find a form of words that can be put into the political declaration that is deemed by the UK's AG to be sufficiently legally binding as to secure either a time limitation, or more likely another approach to fettering - such as genuine arbitration, that allow the WA to be re-presented.
If you cannot understand this further attempt at a Janet and John explanation I suggest that it is just you being addicted to the spade
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Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese
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I appreciate the time you spent putting your post together, but it would seem from several of your points that you are equally vulnerable to propaganda and half-truths as the most vehement Leaver. That's part of the problem - each side of the argument views the other as extreme and based on nonsense. This polarizes us and prevents any sensible debate. Perhaps this is a trick played upon us all?
Dribble
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Thanks for your respectful reply, but I'm a very pragmatic sort by nature & not driven by ideology. Therefore, I'm not interested in opinions, only fact, & when the facts are examined, it shows a scary dark side to the whole Brexit ideology.
Admittedly there has been a lot of lies & untruths told, but mostly by those wanting us to leave, but what you have to ask yourself is why do these rabid Brexiteers actually want to leave? This has all the hallmarks of what Hitler did in the 1930s, & the UK are sleepwalking right into it.
No-one gave a fuck about Nazi Nige throughout his 40 year campaign to reverse the 1975 vote for the UK to join the European Union. However, Nazi Nige has openly admitted that in the last 10 years, the UKiP & the Brexit Party have used immigration as a vehicle to seduce the common man, who the likes of Farage has never before given a fuck about. In fact, it's Nazi Nige who wants a no deal Brexit as he says our prized NHS is a massive waste of money & not fit for purpose, & that the UK would be better with a US style of healthcare, with American giants running it!
So is it any wonder that Nazi Nige is being supported & advised by fellow right wing extremist Steve Bannon & underpinned by Trump? The Brexit Party are the Tory's conscience, so therefore the Tories are dancing to Farage's tune for fear of him splitting their vote, leading to Comrade Corbyn at No 10.
It gets worse.... you REALLY need to get a look at the 'radical' policies Nazi Nige is advocating for the UK! Trust me, the UK will become an ultra right wing USA 2.0 within 10 years.
Consider this, seeing as Nazi Nige, & Bonkers Boris are so determined for the UK to be free from the EU, why are they so adamant that Ireland should remain divided, & Scotland remain as part of the Union? Where does 'We want our country back' come into it where Gibralter & the Falkland Isles are concerned? There are several other UK overseas colonies who would like their countries back, just like the UK apparently, so where do Nazi Nige & Bonkers Boris stand on these age old issues?
Stop looking at Brexit, & focus on a list of reasons why you want the UK to leave. Once I see your list, I'll explain all the fallacies in as much detail as you please, so you can see things from a pragmatic viewpoint, chlorinated chicken, hormone injected beef, Gibralter, Ireland, the lot. I await your reply..
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Dribble
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Just one question:
It's the UK who voted to leave right? So why should the EU find a solution to the Backstop for the UK? Surely the onus is on the UK to come with a workable solution?
You have the cheek to say I don’t understand and won’t admit I’m wrong and in your last two posts you’ve answered “yes” to me asking if the EU have budged and now you’re saying they haven’t because there’s an opposition to no deal in the HoC.
You need to get your own argument sorted before you post like an obnoxious prick.
For the record I do understand how negotiations work, I work in a sales environment and therefore negotiate every day.
The “walk away” tactic only works if the client/party you’re dealing with knows you’ve got something viable to walk away to, whether that be the status quo or another deal elsewhere. No deal isn’t that because the EU know that we’ll have zero trade deals on November 1st and that our industries will suffer massively.
Sure they don’t want no deal but it’ll hurt 27 countries far less than it’ll hurt 1, considering they’ll continue to trade freely with each other and other nations around the world.
The trouble Johnson now has is that there’s the very strong risk he won’t get a US free trade deal if he messes with the GFA, in which a no deal will do. US Congress have said they’ll block it if anything at all is done. Time is not on his/our side with this and Johnson is in a corner.
You were on this forum telling everyone that they’re overestimating the Irish border issue and scoffed at how “obsessed” we were with it. Well it turns out once again we were right and the Irish border is the biggest issue with Brexit.
Your problem is that you think we all want Brexit frustrated and we want it binned, I don’t necessarily, I want us to leave with a deal now because that’s what we voted for.
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