Another new Brexit thread

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mcfc1632 said:
Putting aside the unnecessary barb at the end there which devalues an otherwise good point - I think that you are in the right area.

He needs to bring this to an end - he has bet the (Conservative) house on achieving that

He cannot really lose here - so, odious as people might find it, it is politically clever

  • If it works - he has the possibility of presenting (for the first time) to the EU that there is the pollical will to execute a No-Deal Brexit
  • If it does not work - he has the opportunity to go to the country against a background where the EU are seen in a negative light by the majority of voters
  • Labour are seen as 'all over the place' and will at last have to come out and set a clear position in their manifesto
  • There will be a likely split of the Remain vote - with some of it (in the South) going to the Conservatives - because, when push comes to shove, many see the risk of a Corbyn led government as far more of an issue than Brexit.
  • The BP vote will go to the Conservative party
I think that he will win a working majority - like it or hate it (and I am not sure where I personally stand on it) - it is undeniably clever - and it shows a level of determination that has not been seen up to now
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I'm in agreement with you, it's very smart, but this isn't Johnson, this is Dominic Cummings. I'm currently just disgusted by the whole thing. I have no doubt brexiters feel the way they do because they want the best for the country, but this is an abuse of democracy, and anybody supporting it just because Johnson happens to be on 'their side' (that's not aimed at you, as you said, you don't know how you feel about it) is supporting the actions of a demagogue. We are a representative democracy, and our parliament has voted consistently against no-deal. Johnson, who has a parliamentary majority of one, and was voted in by less than 100k tory party members, should not be allowed to get away with this.
As for the 'unnecessary barb', I think it's completely relevant. There's too many in the British working class who still believe aristocracy has their interests at heart, and it's deeply depressing.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Putting aside the unnecessary barb at the end there which devalues an otherwise good point - I think that you are in the right area.

He needs to bring this to an end - he has bet the (Conservative) house on achieving that

He cannot really lose here - so, odious as people might find it, it is politically clever

  • If it works - he has the possibility of presenting (for the first time) to the EU that there is the pollical will to execute a No-Deal Brexit
  • If it does not work - he has the opportunity to go to the country against a background where the EU are seen in a negative light by the majority of voters
  • Labour are seen as 'all over the place' and will at last have to come out and set a clear position in their manifesto
  • There will be a likely split of the Remain vote - with some of it (in the South) going to the Conservatives - because, when push comes to shove, many see the risk of a Corbyn led government as far more of an issue than Brexit.
  • The BP vote will go to the Conservative party
I think that he will win a working majority - like it or hate it (and I am not sure where I personally stand on it) - it is undeniably clever - and it shows a level of determination that has not been seen up to now
Click to expand...
Good points, plus I'm just hearing that the Queen would let prorogation happen,which would make what Labour, the SNP or
indeed any of them say, redundant, as by 1 November, we'd be out, which ironically is exactly what Labour and the others voted for
when they invoked article 50. If somehow this doesn't happen, with the Labour leader saying in, out, shake it all about
and try and understand what I really mean, and them destroying overnight their traditional Northern base with this stance,
I think he would indeed win a GE held then. The Brexit party, now declining rapidly would probably offer up a coalition, which
would, again ensure we're out.
 
Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
I’m not rich, born and raised in a council house and up until about 8 months ago was on the dole. I don’t think any of them are on anyone’s side, but as someone who wants to leave the eu he and the conservatives are pretty much the only option left now - I’ll take that as will millions of others
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I come from a council house background as well. This constant seeking to position Brexit to be something that is only for the rich is just another part of the narrative the Remainers push

I echo your views - and I think that sufficient millions of others will as well. Parliament has clearly shown that it has not the integrity to be representative of the electorate
 
Vic said:
It doesn't matter because nothing seems to change minds or work. What would change your mind? We'll try that.
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About us leaving the EU?

Nothing as that is what the country voted for.
 
Dribble said:
Talking about the will of the people, remind me when a no deal Brexit was promised as the way forward?
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It wasn't, if you need reminding, but it was certainly outlined in great depth that it would happen
if there was no agreement, the people knew, Parliament knew, and voted for it. There is, as yet, no agreement,
so if that continues for another two months or so, out we go.
 
BobKowalski said:
Parliament as constituted was voted for by the people in 2017. They voted for a hung Parliament and declined to give the Brexit Tories the mandate they sought. By suspending Parliament and going for no deal they are going against what people voted for. What you really mean is Parliament doesn’t reflect what you want so fuck them.
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Fuck - that is some desperate squirming right there

2017 was a GE with a manifesto covering many issues - and of course dominated by May's incompetence and policies that drove away the core conservative support

2016 was the vote on the EU issue

Now the upcoming GE might well be characterised by the EU issue
 
inbetween said:
I agree but the reason we are in this mess is because the MP's made it so.

This is checkmate and it is a checkmate brought about by Labour's dithering and a remain element in Parliament that quite simply cannot organise itself.

An election cannot stop the legislation for no deal which was overwhelmingly voted for. Any election would now take place in November so is pointless.

Funnily enough, I don't call Johnson's bluff and there is far more to this. I certainly think it is a pressure tool that he will try to use against the EU Parliament.

Anything positive from them and I think he will extend which will both deter an election and essentially deliver a better deal.
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Nailed it.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
I'm all for remaining and think Brexit is one of the worst decisions we've ever made - however all the Nazi mudslinging at leavers is beyond pathetic.
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Well said - Thank you

it is not only pathetic - it achieves nothing IMO other than demean those that do it
 
Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
Do you ever get bored of loving/ talking about the eu so much ? You’ve been on here every day talking about it.

Btw all you e done is said fuck it the vote and fuck the majority of people that voted leave
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In those 2 lines you have so well summarised 1000s of posts
 
Looks like he’s had his mind changed again. Boris Johnson, June 26, 2019: "I am not attracted to archaic devices like proroguing (Parliament). Let's get this thing done as a proud representative democracy....."

This from a man who was voting remain until he spotted the obvious Johnson possibilities of Cameron’s demise.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
It wasn't, if you need reminding, but it was certainly outlined in great depth that it would happen
if there was no agreement, the people knew, Parliament knew, and voted for it. There is, as yet, no agreement,
so if that continues for another two months or so, out we go.
Click to expand...
OK, so where was this outlined? Perhaps you can point me to the Brexiteer literature which spelled this out?
 
blueinsa said:
Shit happens when you are faced with dishonesty I’m afraid.

Some have found that out this morning.
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f10e58a8b7fb59b9577be8d6696471a9.jpg
 
bluejon said:
And crap like this is useful exactly how?
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More proof of the point I made about it being all about getting one over on those that disagree with you irrespective of the consequences.
Rather pathetic really.

Cue gif/meme from one of the "winners".
 
west didsblue said:
More proof of the point I made about it being all about getting one over on those that disagree with you irrespective of the consequences.
Rather pathetic really.

Cue gif/meme from one of the "winners".
Click to expand...

That appears to be the only benefit of going through with this now
 
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