Another new Brexit thread

[Magicpole]

You wont have far to visit then. I only live ten miles up the road from you ;-)

I can pick you up with your food parcels and old shoes and we can set off like latter day heroes feeding and clothing our English friends.

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

Just been listening to some Labour MP who I’ve never heard of, called Richard Burgon, saying that Labour want a General Election and if they win they will basically go to Brussels and say “Give us your best deal”. Then they will come back and give the people a referendum to either accept the deal, or remain...you really could not make it up...where’s that ballot paper!!!!

Burgon is a grade A idiot, a parachuted in leader loyalist

There is no deal to be had that is better than our current one. Stark fact that few politicians will admit

 

[bluejon]

So you would rather the tories stayed in power?

Corbyn may not be my prefered option as labour leader, but I will vote to get rid of tories first and the labour manifesto as clear priorities.



As now ex tory MP Guto Bebb has just said on bbc news, Johnson framing it as being the only one commited to leaving having already voted 3 times to stop the deal that would have had us left already, and that he has no intention of getting a deal and lost the trust of the house.

The clown johnson is being called untrustworthy and useless by his own party members who he has kicked out for defying the PM after doing the same throughout brexit.

Aye, and he's not playing to that audience, he's playing to the ultra brexiters who'll love him for what he's doing.

 

[aguero93:20]

Aye, and he's not playing to that audience, he's playing to the ultra brexiters who'll love him for what he's doing.

Yet before Brexit is finished he'll have to face a GE and it'll come down to whether there's enough of them firstly to win an election and secondly that'll stick to conservatives and not go to Farage to get him back to Downing Street. I think he finished his chances of that today. There's a reason May pushed stability as a selling point.

 

[Dr Dweeb]

I can pick you up with your food parcels and old shoes and we can set off like latter day heroes feeding and clothing our English friends.

Size 11, wide fitting slip on will do.

 

[i kne albert davy]

Yet before Brexit is finished he'll have to face a GE and it'll come down to whether there's enough of them firstly to win an election and secondly that'll stick to conservatives and not go to Farage to get him back to Downing Street. I think he finished his chances of that today. There's a reason May pushed stability as a selling point.

Farage is the protest party vote local and european elections in a general election the tory vote will flock back to the tories.

 

[aguero93:20]

Farage is the protest party vote local and european elections in a general election the tory vote will flock back to the tories.

Are you sure about that? Boris gave no sign that there's any more substance to him than Farage today, even if the hardline Brexit vote was big enough, which I doubt. Painting Corbyn as useless for a few years is all well and good, but it works against you when he wipes the commons floor with your new golden boy.

 

[Vic]

John Crace(@JohnJCrace)

Boris Johnson is really struggling here. It’s as if his own MPs have just woken up to the fact he’s a bit shit

September 3, 2019

The gist of this tweet and many others from journos is that BoJo has had a spectacularly bad day.

Let's see on the numbers later.

Obviously Guardian readers comments following the brilliant John Crace but all good fun including "imagine looking & sounding less like a PM than Corbyn. Absolutely damning analysis there."

 

[Dribble]

I've said this type of thing a few times on here. I've first hand experience of how difficult it can be to be a legal resident in another EU country. Not in the UK though, where the govt do the grand sum of fuck all to try to control EU immigration - then use it as a weapon when the situation requires.

Exactly.

 

[west didsblue]

Farage is the protest party vote local and european elections in a general election the tory vote will flock back to the tories.

The Tories have become the new UKIP/BXP. A lot of the less senile traditional one nation Tories will sit out the next election or switch to the Lib Dems in the same way that many centre left Labour voters are doing.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

So to recap. Govt majority went from +1 to -40 (ish). Johnson lost his first vote as prime minister and claims his non existent Brexit strategy is being wrecked. PM also wants an election but may not be able to get it on his terms. And he's thrown Sir Winston Churchill’s grandson, the Father of the House and two ex Chancellors out of the Conservative Party.

Sweet.

Saw them on Newsnight.
They confirmed that Boris has not negotiated sincerely for a deal.
This was all planned and that the Tory party has been taken over by a Brexit Right wing element.
This from within.
Also Churchill’s nephew and Clarke say that they are for leaving with a deal but what Boris is looking for is not achievable.
So if as expected the GE doesn’t get through with a 2/3 majority if no deal is not safely dispatched of, what’s then?
Suppose it depends on whether the bill gets passed tomorrow.
The impression given tonight was that the 21 wouldn’t have done what they did if they were not prepared to carry the bill tomorrow.
There are a few amendments to be discussed first that may swing some however.

Interesting times.

 

[Dribble]

Mate - the Take back control mantra was just what the bigots wanted to hear - once they got that there was no turning back. You only need to see and hear voxpops and radio phone ins to see that the "just get out and get out now merchants" are often the one's who cite FoM as their priority.

The problem the remain vote had during the referendum, was there wasn't a coordinated approach as there was with Vote Leave who had hundreds of millions pumped into their campaign, by self serving billionaires with Swiss & Caribbean tax havens. If vote leave told the truth, there wouldn't have even been a campaign.

Even now, I'm still waiting for a compelling argument as to why we should leave the EU. I have one killer argument which I haven't seen mentioned in this thread, but I'll keep my powder dry in the hope that someone with a modicum of common sense and knowledge of why we should leave pops up.

I've been waiting a week & haven't seen one knowledgeable leaver pop up yet.

 

[Dribble]

Fully agree with that. I'm not a cheerleader for Labour, and I wish from the bottom of my heart that Jeremy Corbyn would fuck off as far as his little legs can take him.

If Labour had a proper leader, Brexit would have never seen the light of day. Corbyn's 'Workers' politics are outdated. Being Business First doesn't mean you can't be fair to a workforce, & what Comrade Corbyn fails to understand is that without business, there are no jobs for workers, so business must always take priority, but be fair and inclusive to its workforce.

Corbyn talking about forcing multinational companies to break themselves up & divide their companies into shares to be distributed to their workers sends shivers down my spine. Corbynista's seem to support this relic over the Labour Party. If Labour had anything about them, they'd have seen the Tories off at the last election. However, if the Tories had any sense, they'd have kept Cameron on.

Again more to the point, the wrong Milliband brother was put in power by the unions, at the expense of endorsing the best Labour leader, the Labour party never had in David Milliband. The country needs a strong moderate government, and equally a strong moderate opposition. What the fuck has happened to the UK over the last 10 years beggars belief.

 

[Vic]

Saw them on Newsnight.
They confirmed that Boris has not negotiated sincerely for a deal.
This was all planned and that the Tory party has been taken over by a Brexit Right wing element.
This from within.
Also Churchill’s nephew and Clarke say that they are for leaving with a deal but what Boris is looking for is not achievable.
So if as expected the GE doesn’t get through with a 2/3 majority if no deal is not safely dispatched of, what’s then?
Suppose it depends on whether the bill gets passed tomorrow.
The impression given tonight was that the 21 wouldn’t have done what they did if they were not prepared to carry the bill tomorrow.
There are a few amendments to be discussed first that may swing some however.

Interesting times.

Don't forget in the legal case against prorogation it's been established that they were lying when they said last month that it was false that they'd considered prorogation. They declined to make a statement to the court about it - probably didn't like choosing between truth or perjury.

 

[bluethrunthru]

If Labour had a proper leader, Brexit would have never seen the light of day. Corbyn's 'Workers' politics are outdated. Being Business First doesn't mean you can't be fair to a workforce, & what Comrade Corbyn fails to understand is that without business, there are no jobs for workers, so business must always take priority, but be fair and inclusive to its workforce.

Corbyn talking about forcing multinational companies to break themselves up & divide their companies into shares to be distributed to their workers sends shivers down my spine. Corbynista's seem to support this relic over the Labour Party. If Labour had anything about them, they'd have seen the Tories off at the last election. However, if the Tories had any sense, they'd have kept Cameron on.

Again more to the point, the wrong Milliband brother was put in power by the unions, at the expense of endorsing the best Labour leader, the Labour party never had in David Milliband. The country needs a strong moderate government, and equally a strong moderate opposition. What the fuck has happened to the UK over the last 10 years beggars belief.

" A proper leader" - its funny but since he was elected Leader and despite all the shit thrown at him particularly by the RW press and the Tory Party he has outlived Call Me Dave, Mayday and could well do the same with Johnson. He stood in one GE where Labour was predicted to be decimated and instead they won 34 more seats the Cons losing 17. I hope he continues being an improper leader then.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Don't forget in the legal case against prorogation it's been established that they were lying when they said last month that it was false that they'd considered prorogation. They declined to make a statement to the court about it - probably didn't like choosing between truth or perjury.

Yeah - they declined to make a sworn statement to court.............hmmmm............wonder why that would be? Another issue with Cummings cavalier approach and Johnsons detached association with the truth is if they are proven to be lying they are in real trouble. The Queen assents to the prorogation based on the info provided by her PM. If that advice is untrue then they have lied to the monarch whilst in an office of state............gulp !...............you see the problem with liars is the more they get away with it the more they think they are invincible...............they usually get caught in the end.....by their own lies.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Yeah - they declined to make a sworn statement to court.............hmmmm............wonder why that would be? Another issue with Cummings cavalier approach and Johnsons detached association with the truth is if they are proven to be lying they are in real trouble. The Queen assents to the prorogation based on the info provided by her PM. If that advice is untrue then they have lied to the monarch whilst in an office of state............gulp !...............you see the problem with liars is the more they get away with it the more they think they are invincible...............they usually get caught in the end.....by their own lies.

Off with their heads?
Or what is the protocol nowadays.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Off with their heads?
Or what is the protocol nowadays.

dunno - would be interesting times. For starters we know HMQ was angry at being dragged into politics - to find it had happened on a false premise........no idea what the punishment is but I bet Liz would want the full force of the law brought to bear. My guess is Johnson would see to it Cummings is made the fall guy

 

[Dribble]

" A proper leader" - its funny but since he was elected Leader and despite all the shit thrown at him particularly by the RW press and the Tory Party he has outlived Call Me Dave, Mayday and could well do the same with Johnson. He stood in one GE where Labour was predicted to be decimated and instead they won 34 more seats the Cons losing 17. I hope he continues being an improper leader then.

That's the point i was making. After the austerity & the mess the Conservatives have made of the UK this last ten years, Labour should have wiped the floor with them. In that respect, Corbyn is a liability, however the utterly crap Tories are making him look better than he actually is.

I actually agree with most of Corbyn's philosophies (apart from Europe), but the way he packages himself and comes across makes it difficult for Middle England moderates to vote for him. The biggest fear the Tories have is if Labour wake up & sniff the coffee & replace Corbyn. That's when you'd see them shit themselves. However, Corbynista's would rather see Corbyn in No 10, rather than the Labour Party.

I asked one of his disciples, if Corbyn was to stay in power for the next 5-6 years & still not gain the keys to No 10, at what point would you want a change. She couldn't answer, because for her she supports Corbyn over Labour, albeit that another Labour candidate would be infinitely more electable. Go figure.

 

[mat]

Who's hacked this former tory youth chairs account?