Another new Brexit thread

[inbetween]

Whilst I am a devout Remainer and no supporter of Boris, you cannot escape the fact that he is basically right about one fundamental thing: Now we've signed away our ability to leave without a deal, then the EU has us *entirely* by the short and curlies:

Give the UK a shitty deal entirely on the EU's terms and then either the UK has to accept that (result!) or they never leave (result!). In fact putting a better deal on the table, is now entirely NOT in the EU's best interests. They have a dissincentive to improve the terms on offer. So we are royally fucked.

It is inconceivable to me that intelligent MPs could not see this, and I can only conclude therefore that the covert agenda is simply to ensure that Brexit is cancelled. I cannot imagine how utterly pissed off the likes of @blueinsa must be feeling.

The only hope for anyone still wanting to see us leave the EU, is to vote for Boris (if indeed he still is PM) at the next election in October or perhaps November. If not, Brexit is cancelled.

This will be tested and resolved by a GE.

The undertone has been present ever since May won (or lost depending on your perspective) the last election.

If the people return Boris with a majority with the Tories on their own or with TBP then the whole matter is put to bed.

Where I as a remainer have to remain a democrat is I am almost fully sure that the people will return that result.

I cannot see any scenario where the Tories wouldn't be able to form a government and that is where certainly remain are being extremely short-sighted and why an election is so dangerous.

I honestly don't understand why remainers would want Nigel Farage to have a shot at becoming an MP and getting some real power because he is extremely likely to get in.

 

[Rascal]

Judging by recent Twitter chat the penny has finally dropped with the FBPE brigade. Corbyn is and was only ever their one chance to stop/halt/limit Brexit. All the praise for him now from the woke centrists is hilarious.

I wont see most of it as I blocked loads of them as they are as batshit crazy as the ERG.

 

[Chippy_boy]

This will be tested and resolved by a GE.

Yes it will. I just pray to god that the price for returning the Remain result that I want is not that we have to endure a Corbyn-led government. I just could not bare it. Anything but that.

But I can see no way out. It's either Brexit or Corbyn. Rock and a hard place, doesn't begin to describe just how awful that choice is.

 

[inbetween]

You’re living in a fantasy. I’ve seen the documentary and the presentation.

The EU don’t want us to leave but the point of A50 is to allow countries to leave whenever they want.

The EU have always said we can leave with no deal if we wish, again when Raab came in and though cockiness would sort it out and Barnier very quickly calling his bluff and saying “go with no deal tomorrow if you wish, I’ll phone the European Council right now and tell them that’s what Britain is doing” highlighted this.

If we’re going to get a deal we play by the rules and unfortunately the right wing cretins that have ruined this country didn’t want to.

That's not true.

Why can't we negotiate and then leave in 5 years or 10 years?

Why 2 years? No precedent was set for 2 years so why and who decided upon this arbitrary time limit?

Also, why couldn't we negotiate parts of a deal before triggering Article 50?

Of course the only answer to that is because it would give an advantage to the leaving member state.

 

[Rascal]

I cannot imagine how utterly pissed off the likes of @blueinsa must be feeling.
.

There is always a silver lining

 

[Ban-jani]

I wont see most of it as I blocked loads of them as they are as batshit crazy as the ERG.

That’s very harsh.

I think many are quite insufferable but those on the left who I happen to share views with can be too.

They’re nothing like the new right wing English nationalist lot who I’m sure everyone can agree are utterly toxic and dangerous.

 

[Chippy_boy]

There is always a silver lining

I think he must have gone off to slit his wrists somewhere. Strangely nowhere to be seen?

 

[Rascal]

Yes it will. I just pray to god that the price for returning the Remain result that I want is not that we have to endure a Corbyn-led government. I just could not bare it. Anything but that.

But I can see no way out. It's either Brexit or Corbyn. Rock and a hard place, doesn't begin to describe just how awful that choice is.

The people's flag is deepest red,
It shrouded oft our martyred dead
And ere their limbs grew stiff and cold,
Their hearts' blood dyed its every fold.
So raise the scarlet standard high,
Beneath its shade we'll live and die,
Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer,
We'll keep the red flag flying here

 

[mat]

Posted this in the election thread...


dont misinterpret this...

Sinn Fein wont take their seats in Westminster...they wont form a pact with Labour...this is about beating the DUP in key areas on NI...so that they arent able to give their 10 seats to the Tories. This, if it even happens, is about aligning...or standing down in areas of NI where other pro-remain parties would benefit and defeat the DUP.

Remember we have so(too) many parties over hear....constituencies can have a choice of dup, sinn fein, uup, alliance, greens, sdlp, tuv, pbp, NI conservatives....

As long as it makes Boris shit his Y fronts that's all that matters :D

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

A good democratic system imho has well defined limits and boundaries. It's not nessecarily healthy for democracy if parlementarians are activly seeking all sorts of holes to opportunely exploit against spirit of normal procedure. It's nothing new from the perspective of political science and it's history to see such a trend and thus one can also be concious of it's potentially bad outcome.


That is about it in a nutshell, the rest was examples of it. What is it that you want to argue?

Well it could be argued that the system is as good as you are going to get in comparison to others. (Dictatorships/Communism etc.)
However those trying to circumvent it, and skip the safeguards within, are far from democratic and perhaps they are the problem.
I believe modern western governments are not actually governors, they are merely facilitators for large enterprise.
It is big business that rules the world and it is currently actively trying to do away with whatever inherent safeguards are in our historically democratic systems.

 

[Chippy_boy]

The people's flag is deepest red,
It shrouded oft our martyred dead
And ere their limbs grew stiff and cold,
Their hearts' blood dyed its every fold.
So raise the scarlet standard high,
Beneath its shade we'll live and die,
Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer,
We'll keep the red flag flying here

Just a quick FYI, but I don't read these bollocksy poems you keep posting. You're wasting bandwidth. Generally.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Well why hasn’t it been triggered? If that was the case the day after the GFA they could have. Isn’t the population of Ireland 3m? Don’t understand.

No it needs both a majority in the North and a majority in the South. Not an overall majority.
It can't be forced on either community.

 

[inbetween]

Yes it will. I just pray to god that the price for returning the Remain result that I want is not that we have to endure a Corbyn-led government. I just could not bare it. Anything but that.

I don't think you'll have that choice.

The only possible result that offers remain is one which brings in Corbyn either with a majority or (worse imo) a coalition with the SNP and god knows who.

If you look at the parties, the Lib Dems are my choice but then the numbers and likelihood of seat return makes them still essentially a two party protest vote.

I am in a leave area that voted Tory (59% voted leave) and our MP increased her vote last time so it should be a certain seat. I doubt TBP would stand here to affect that.

Our area SHOULD be a Labour seat based upon the demographic but it hasn't been since Blair, and not even close recently... Funny that!

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

 

[blueinsa]

Whilst I am a devout Remainer and no supporter of Boris, you cannot escape the fact that he is basically right about one fundamental thing: Now we've signed away our ability to leave without a deal, then the EU has us *entirely* by the short and curlies:

Give the UK a shitty deal entirely on the EU's terms and then either the UK has to accept that (result!) or they never leave (result!). In fact putting a better deal on the table, is now entirely NOT in the EU's best interests. They have a dissincentive to improve the terms on offer. So we are royally fucked.

It is inconceivable to me that intelligent MPs could not see this, and I can only conclude therefore that the covert agenda is simply to ensure that Brexit is cancelled. I cannot imagine how utterly pissed off the likes of @blueinsa must be feeling.

The only hope for anyone still wanting to see us leave the EU, is to vote for Boris (if indeed he still is PM) at the next election in October or perhaps November. If not, Brexit is cancelled.

Pissed off that as a country a few hundred MP's have decided that they will ignore the result of the ref and basically the electorate mate thats all but it was fully expected.

As for the rest of your post, agree and its what we have consistently said. These MP's have given the EU the green light to shaft us if they want and to never do a deal that would pass through Parliament.

I just hope at the next GE many in the ERG and many on the remain side are looking for new jobs as they have utterly failed the electorate.

 

[Rascal]

Just a quick FYI, but I don't read these bollocksy poems you keep posting. You're wasting bandwidth. Generally.

Don't be a tease, I know you love them :))

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Not a convention mate. Only politeness. :-)

In fairness, I didn't know that was the reason some people put @ infront of names.
To get this straight, does it mean the person gets an alert that they've been mentioned?

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Apologies - did we ever finish that exchange ?

I was deep into a family holiday and my memory is vague - and there was a bit of beer involved as well;-)

Sorry @mcfc1632 you know you just lined yourself up for this;

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

The idea that no deal is there to scare the EU into a new deal but the British public have nothing to worry about with no deal has to be the stupidest attempt at trying to pull the wool over our eyes ever.

Is it a double Clarkie?
I never can tell.

 

[robbieh]

Listened to some people in Port Talbot on the radio saying they just want to leave Europe asap. Given this part of the UK received more EU help than anywhere else I have come to the conclusion as a remainer that the situation is hopeless.

I want us to leave with no deal and I want leave voters and their politicians to take responsibility for what happens. If shit hits the fan it's down to them. Equally if it all turns out well I'll doff my cap to them.