Another new Brexit thread

[Blue Hefner]

An economically beneficial exit deal of any kind can never be agreed when the EU are committed, quite predictably, to ensuring the exact opposite. In our leaving strategy we've failed to act on or even recognise that reality, although made crystal clear at the outset of 'negotiations'. We are now being forced to remain, hard to take but a far preferable outcome to the others now on offer. We then need to find another way out but when the time is right and not via the A50 route.

We are not ‘forced to remain’, there is a deal on the table

 

[George Hannah]

We are not ‘forced to remain’, there is a deal on the table

You may have noticed that the HoC don't seem to have regarded it as such on several occasions and it's not difficult to understand why from many points of view.

 

[BobKowalski]

As I say, we all have one which we dearly love. You clearly like yours, and you are welcome to it.

The delusion is strong with this one.

 

[Blue Hefner]

You may have noticed that the HoP don't seem to have regarded it as such on several occasions and it's not difficult to understand why from many points of view.

But the HoC not liking the WA and the EU ‘forcing’ us to stay are 2 completely different things

 

[BobKowalski]

An economically beneficial exit deal of any kind can never be agreed when the EU are committed, quite predictably, to ensuring the exact opposite. In our leaving strategy we've failed to act on or even recognise that reality, although made crystal clear at the outset of 'negotiations'. Without adequate preparations for the inevitable No Deal we are now being forced to remain. Hard to take but a far preferable outcome to the others now on offer. We then need to find another way out but when the time is right and not via the A50 route.

Strategically this is the only Brexit option that makes sense. Obviously we will not do this.

 

[bluejon]

You may have noticed that the HoC don't seem to have regarded it as such on several occasions and it's not difficult to understand why from many points of view.

The EU would have no problem at all us exiting the EU, but staying in the customs union. The fault of this total fuck up is not the EU, it is the conservative party, who were more arsed about trying to get a deal that would keep their party together than enacting the much vaunted 'will of the people'. There was no way they were ever going to get a deal that didn't split their party, so Cameron's gamble to bring his party together has failed spectacularly.

 

[George Hannah]

But the HoC not liking the WA and the EU ‘forcing’ us to stay are 2 completely different things

I don't think Mrs May thought that was the case in her pleadings.

 

[aguero93:20]

Swearing allegiance to HMQ - who'd have thought it, the political wing of the IRA turns up at the kill - except this one it seems

They won't be, the SDLP and Alliance will.

 

[George Hannah]

The EU would have no problem at all us exiting the EU, but staying in the customs union. The fault of this total fuck up is not the EU, it is the conservative party, who were more arsed about trying to get a deal that would keep their party together than enacting the much vaunted 'will of the people'. There was no way they were ever going to get a deal that didn't split their party, so Cameron's gamble to bring his party together has failed spectacularly.

That's rather the point isn't it? If we stay in the customs union and/or the single market why bother leaving? We would still be under their jurisdiction but without a dog in the fight.

 

[Ban-jani]

An economically beneficial exit deal of any kind can never be agreed when the EU are committed, quite predictably, to ensuring the exact opposite. In our leaving strategy we've failed to act on or even recognise that reality, although made crystal clear at the outset of 'negotiations'. Without adequate preparations for the inevitable No Deal we are now being forced to remain. Hard to take but a far preferable outcome to the others now on offer. We then need to find another way out but when the time is right and not via the A50 route.

Rubbish, the EU’s very first meeting with David Davis and Theresa May was to present to them on PowerPoint every single trade agreement they have with other countries, starting at full membership of the EU, working backwards.

Barnier said “which one do you want?”.

This is on the behind the scenes BBC documentary.

The red lines May set due to the bigots in her party and the right wing nuts that follow Farage are why we are here today, having not left.

 

[carlosthejackal]

Amazing how people still believe in Johnson despite his lies , inept performances in parliament, his brother fucking him off because of the damage he’s prepared to inflict on the country .

 

[bluethrunthru]

I really don't know whats worse - the language used by our PM at the dispatch box or the fact that a man doing this thinks he can call himself a journalist?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-49593110?__twitter_impression=true

 

[George Hannah]

Rubbish, the EU’s very first meeting with David Davis and Theresa May was to present to them on PowerPoint every single trade agreement they have with other countries, starting at full membership of the EU, working backwards. Barnier said “which one do you want?”. This is on the behind the scenes BBC documentary. The red lines May set due to the bigots in her party and the right wing nuts that follow Farage are why we are here today, having not left.

As I have pointed out many times on here this description of events is simply incorrect from beginning to end. The whole fiasco is a sham, the red lines etc were purely decorative to give the illusion of negotiation. The EU just want their divorce settlement followed by an interminable period of trade deal negotiations under their rules while they prevent us striking new agreements. (17 years in the case of Sweden)
Why would they help us to leave - it's not in their interest? Get real.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Amazing how people still believe in Johnson despite his lies , inept performances in parliament, his brother fucking him off because of the damage he’s prepared to inflict on the country .

This is an interesting article on him

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/...3TMk9iGWy4SSK3s9UPJ4CP6Z61Tvn65y2tFOcEx3tu0g4

 

[bluejon]

That's rather the point isn't it? If we stay in the customs union and/or the single market why bother leaving? We would still be under their jurisdiction but without a dog in the fight.

All true, and none of these idiots (talking Cameron, Farage etc not posters on here) realised that Northern Ireland made leaving without staying in some kind of customs union virtually impossible. Ironically, Britain's imperial dickishness has come back to stop it breaking free of the EU. Makes me smile anyway.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Whilst I am a devout Remainer and no supporter of Boris, you cannot escape the fact that he is basically right about one fundamental thing: Now we've signed away our ability to leave without a deal, then the EU has us *entirely* by the short and curlies:

Give the UK a shitty deal entirely on the EU's terms and then either the UK has to accept that (result!) or they never leave (result!). In fact putting a better deal on the table, is now entirely NOT in the EU's best interests. They have a dissincentive to improve the terms on offer. So we are royally fucked.

It is inconceivable to me that intelligent MPs could not see this, and I can only conclude therefore that the covert agenda is simply to ensure that Brexit is cancelled. I cannot imagine how utterly pissed off the likes of @blueinsa must be feeling.

The only hope for anyone still wanting to see us leave the EU, is to vote for Boris (if indeed he still is PM) at the next election in October or perhaps November. If not, Brexit is cancelled.

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

Holy fuck.

Posted this in the election thread...


dont misinterpret this...

Sinn Fein wont take their seats in Westminster...they wont form a pact with Labour...this is about beating the DUP in key areas on NI...so that they arent able to give their 10 seats to the Tories. This, if it even happens, is about aligning...or standing down in areas of NI where other pro-remain parties would benefit and defeat the DUP.

Remember we have so(too) many parties over hear....constituencies can have a choice of dup, sinn fein, uup, alliance, greens, sdlp, tuv, pbp, NI conservatives....

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Sorry - that logic does not work and is against the evidence

Cameron was clearly not expected to win a majority - but did after making that promise

Major - exactly the same - totally unexpected and the promise was made deliberately to secure the votes of those that wanted a referendum

Blair - the only possible question mark - but he was not certain and decided to opt for the fall back of the proven vote-winner of promising a referendum. Why else would Blair - an utter EU devotee - make such a promise?

Event 1 happened.
Event 2 happened.
There may be correlation that event 1 caused Event 2. There may not be.

It's an opinion. I think yours is seriously over-egging the likelihood. I am also unsurprised.

 

[Rascal]

Just imagine a scenario where remain had won in 2016 and for the next three years MPs in parliment had done all they could to overturn the result and get us to leave. Forcing the PM to leave against his will, against the will of the people. Unthinkable isn't it. I wonder how the self righteous remainers would view that scenario? Because that is how 17.4m people feel now.

It could be argued leave have been trying to change the result since 1975 when 67% voted to remain, which ironically was also 17.4 million votes. As a leaver how do you feel about all those years campaigning against a democratic mandate?

Playing devils advocate here btw, but it is relevant maybe.

 

[Ban-jani]

As I have pointed out many times on here this description of events is simply incorrect from beginning to end. The whole fiasco is a sham, the red lines etc were purely decorative to give the illusion of negotiation. The EU just want their divorce settlement followed by an interminable period of trade deal negotiations under their rules while they prevent us striking new agreements. (17 years in the case of Sweden)
Why would they help us to leave - it's not in their interest? Get real.

You’re living in a fantasy. I’ve seen the documentary and the presentation.

The EU don’t want us to leave but the point of A50 is to allow countries to leave whenever they want.

The EU have always said we can leave with no deal if we wish, again when Raab came in and though cockiness would sort it out and Barnier very quickly calling his bluff and saying “go with no deal tomorrow if you wish, I’ll phone the European Council right now and tell them that’s what Britain is doing” highlighted this.

If we’re going to get a deal we play by the rules and unfortunately the right wing cretins that have ruined this country didn’t want to.