Var debate 2019/20

Newman Noggs said:
Football is a multi-billion pound industry. There are contolling interests. A cartel of clubs ensuring that they get the lion's share of the money. In Europe it is the G14, in England that's Arsenal, United and Liverpool. The teams that forced the formation of the PL on the threat of breaking away. They control the product. The media makes money from the product. It's a symbiotic relationship.

If you doubt that, for starters tell me why so many of the pundits hired by Sky, BT, Talkshite and the BBC are from those 3 clubs.
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... you've got me there - there's no way I can have issue - and here was me thinking my team had won so many Premier League titles on pure merit, but it's been favouritism all along ...
 
Millwallawayveteran1988 said:
Interesting that despite the introduction of VAR, there has only been 9 penalties awarded compared with 14 at this stage last season. Needless to say The rags have been awarded 33% of them!
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I think that’s potentially because the referees aren’t making decisions unless they 110% sure, simply so they’re not embarrassed by VAR. It’s better to say “I didn’t see it” than call something that’s not actually happened so they’re playing safety first.
 
Newman Noggs said:
Football is a multi-billion pound industry. There are contolling interests. A cartel of clubs ensuring that they get the lion's share of the money. In Europe it is the G14, in England that's Arsenal, United and Liverpool. The teams that forced the formation of the PL on the threat of breaking away. They control the product. The media makes money from the product. It's a symbiotic relationship.

If you doubt that, for starters tell me why so many of the pundits hired by Sky, BT, Talkshite and the BBC are from those 3 clubs.
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As Mr Noggs says above, with the greatest respect to the rest of the teams that make up the premier league, look at the back of any newspaper any day of the week and you would struggle to read articles on Burnley, Bournemouth, Brighton, Watford, West Ham, Norwich, Sheff Utd, Villa, Wolves, Everton, Leicester .. you get the picture.. Ever wondered why? I'll tell you why, they are not considered big enough news for the media who churn out story after story about the Rags and scousers mainly, all with positive undertones. If these 2 shared the next 20 titles do you think Scudamore would be saying the brand is f@cked! - not a chance!!
Any coverage we get more often than not has a negative spin on it which reflects on our football club. Along with the pundits Mr Noggs mentions above having connections with both the teams mentioned who let their masks slip as soon as things go their way, showing no impartially, (Salah, you little dancer! - how did that work out for you Carragher you knob?).

Maybe you're right Presse and we should all 'move along 'cos there's nothing to see here' but I for one see it differently !
 
Bill the Blue said:
As Mr Noggs says above, with the greatest respect to the rest of the teams that make up the premier league, look at the back of any newspaper any day of the week and you would struggle to read articles on Burnley, Bournemouth, Brighton, Watford, West Ham, Norwich, Sheff Utd, Villa, Wolves, Everton, Leicester .. you get the picture.. Ever wondered why? I'll tell you why, they are not considered big enough news for the media who churn out story after story about the Rags and scousers mainly, all with positive undertones. If these 2 shared the next 20 titles do you think Scudamore would be saying the brand is f@cked! - not a chance!!
Any coverage we get more often than not has a negative spin on it which reflects on our football club. Along with the pundits Mr Noggs mentions above having connections with both the teams mentioned who let their masks slip as soon as things go their way, showing no impartially, (Salah, you little dancer! - how did that work out for you Carragher you knob?).

Maybe you're right Presse and we should all 'move along 'cos there's nothing to see here' but I for one see it differently !
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... ironically, Carragher is pretty much thought of in the same way by Liverpool supporters - I don't read the papers so have no opinion, nor any reason to doubt your observation, but as far as nothing to see - I am anti VAR regarding it's current useage - I am in total agreement that City and others have had their pockets picked by the system, I just don't adhere to it being used to the sole detriment of a single club, and for the sole benefit of two others. Time will tell I guess, although the next 20 might be a tad optomistic ...
 
Presse said:
... you've got me there - there's no way I can have issue - and here was me thinking my team had won so many Premier League titles on pure merit, but it's been favouritism all along ...
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Excellent point. You've won no Premier League titles and yet the product placement continues not only unabated but at an accellerating rate in direct correllation to your failure to win it.

And the reason is financial. Some, even on here, argue it's to cater for a larger fan base. But what it actually does is place the names Liverpool, Manchester United and Arsenal right in the forefront of every single football related programme. And why ? At least United were successful albeit because they spent more money than everyone else. In Liverpool's case it is pure advertising. Keep that myth going.

Liverpool have won a couple of CLs which they are only even allowed to enter because they, and the rest of the G14, changed the rules to ensure that they always had access to the CL money even when they weren't good enough to win their domestic league and could finish as low as 4th. A position almost guaranteed by virtue of the "organic" money received from the CL each year.

And then came City. No wonder Arsenal, United and Liverpool are incandescent with rage. No wonder their propagandists in the media are frothing. No wonder you, as a fan, are seething that judicious investment and srategic planning have catapulted us past you.

It's beautiful. It exceeds anything I could ever have hoped for when we were in the third division. To see the greatest team these shores have ever witnessed, not only winning but playing the purest football any British team has ever played. A type of football your media acolytes assured us was impossible in the PL, because despite the financial dominance of the aforementioned teams, they had never played it.

Sure, invent rules to ban us. Fulminate with your new found interest in human rights issues in one part of the middle east. Spend your lives on other club's forums. It brings us joy because it means that you know that all of the above is 100% true. Your pain is the ambrosia of the Gods and, as Tyler bid us to do in the single iconic moment of the Premier League era.."drink it in".
 
Presse said:
... ironically, Carragher is pretty much thought of in the same way by Liverpool supporters - I don't read the papers so have no opinion, nor any reason to doubt your observation, but as far as nothing to see - I am anti VAR regarding it's current useage - I am in total agreement that City and others have had their pockets picked by the system, I just don't adhere to it being used to the sole detriment of a single club, and for the sole benefit of two others. Time will tell I guess, although the next 20 might be a tad optomistic ...
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I've been against var since day one. I think it fundamentally ruins the game for many reasons and said i won't be going to any more matches where it is in operation.
Like you, i don't subscribe to the conspiracy theories regarding certain clubs and i certainly don't think it's been introduced in the pl to stymie City or favour united/liverpool.
 
Newman Noggs said:
Excellent point. You've won no Premier League titles and yet the product placement continues not only unabated but at an accellerating rate in direct correllation to your failure to win it.

And the reason is financial. Some, even on here, argue it's to cater for a larger fan base. But what it actually does is place the names Liverpool, Manchester United and Arsenal right in the forefront of every single football related programme. And why ? At least United were successful albeit because they spent more money than everyone else. In Liverpool's case it is pure advertising. Keep that myth going.

Liverpool have won a couple of CLs which they are only even allowed to enter because they, and the rest of the G14, changed the rules to ensure that they always had access to the CL money even when they weren't good enough to win their domestic league and could finish as low as 4th. A position almost guaranteed by virtue of the "organic" money received from the CL each year.

And then came City. No wonder Arsenal, United and Liverpool are incandescent with rage. No wonder their propagandists in the media are frothing. No wonder you, as a fan, are seething that judicious investment and srategic planning have catapulted us past you.

It's beautiful. It exceeds anything I could ever have hoped for when we were in the third division. To see the greatest team these shores have ever witnessed, not only winning but playing the purest football any British team has ever played. A type of football your media acolytes assured us was impossible in the PL, because despite the financial dominance of the aforementioned teams, they had never played it.

Sure, invent rules to ban us. Fulminate with your new found interest in human rights issues in one part of the middle east. Spend your lives on other club's forums. It brings us joy because it means that you know that all of the above is 100% true. Your pain is the ambrosia of the Gods and, as Tyler bid us to do in the single iconic moment of the Premier League era.."drink it in".
Click to expand...
Presse said:
... ironically, Carragher is pretty much thought of in the same way by Liverpool supporters - I don't read the papers so have no opinion, nor any reason to doubt your observation, but as far as nothing to see - I am anti VAR regarding it's current useage - I am in total agreement that City and others have had their pockets picked by the system, I just don't adhere to it being used to the sole detriment of a single club, and for the sole benefit of two others. Time will tell I guess, although the next 20 might be a tad optomistic ...
Click to expand...

Presse said:
... ironically, Carragher is pretty much thought of in the same way by Liverpool supporters - I don't read the papers so have no opinion, nor any reason to doubt your observation, but as far as nothing to see - I am anti VAR regarding it's current useage - I am in total agreement that City and others have had their pockets picked by the system, I just don't adhere to it being used to the sole detriment of a single club, and for the sole benefit of two others. Time will tell I guess, although the next 20 might be a tad optomistic ...
Click to expand...
City and others having their pockets picked by VAR you say.. . Are Liverpool lumped in with the others?.. No I didn't think so! Only 4 games in so I'm sure they'll cop for some pocket picking although I'm not holding my breath..
 
Newman Noggs said:
Excellent point. You've won no Premier League titles and yet the product placement continues not only unabated but at an accellerating rate in direct correllation to your failure to win it.

And the reason is financial. Some, even on here, argue it's to cater for a larger fan base. But what it actually does is place the names Liverpool, Manchester United and Arsenal right in the forefront of every single football related programme. And why ? At least United were successful albeit because they spent more money than everyone else. In Liverpool's case it is pure advertising. Keep that myth going.

Liverpool have won a couple of CLs which they are only even allowed to enter because they, and the rest of the G14, changed the rules to ensure that they always had access to the CL money even when they weren't good enough to win their domestic league and could finish as low as 4th. A position almost guaranteed by virtue of the "organic" money received from the CL each year.

And then came City. No wonder Arsenal, United and Liverpool are incandescent with rage. No wonder their propagandists in the media are frothing. No wonder you, as a fan, are seething that judicious investment and srategic planning have catapulted us past you.

It's beautiful. It exceeds anything I could ever have hoped for when we were in the third division. To see the greatest team these shores have ever witnessed, not only winning but playing the purest football any British team has ever played. A type of football your media acolytes assured us was impossible in the PL, because despite the financial dominance of the aforementioned teams, they had never played it.

Sure, invent rules to ban us. Fulminate with your new found interest in human rights issues in one part of the middle east. Spend your lives on other club's forums. It brings us joy because it means that you know that all of the above is 100% true. Your pain is the ambrosia of the Gods and, as Tyler bid us to do in the single iconic moment of the Premier League era.."drink it in".
Click to expand...

... phew - all cannons blazing. When you put it this way, I can now see how VAR, voted in by a majority of Premier League clubs, has been introduced, or manipultated, solely to derail Manchester City (and, now that you don't mention it, perhaps Chelsea, and Spurs - upstarts that they are ...). You must have been elated when the G14 was disbanded more than a decade ago, around the beginning of City's accumulation of successes in the Premier League - a conspiracy theorists ideal, perhaps ...

You are right in saying I spend too much time on the forums of other teams. Probably best to just swim upstream with the rest of the salmon. But, for me, better this than being seduced by the inane media coverage of our sport - at least I can stay in touch with what fans really feel.

Thanks (to Blue Moon) for allowing me the opportunity to enter your debate on VAR - the only thread I commented on because it was my sole area of interest - and I am happy to have presented myself as a target for some of you to be able to express yourselves with such controlled vehemence / eloquence - 'another fucking deluded dipper' aside - I certainly have been directed into areas of research regarding your club, and the dubious rewriting of rules which makes one wonder - FFP - I had never considered the bigger financial picture and the behind closed doors manipulation of protecting revenue streams, yet, perhaps niavely as suggested, I still cannot connect all the dots that reveal the image that UEFA and the media and PGMOL etc. are all invested in putting City back in the box - who really gives a fuck what the media has to say anyway - read, don't read - I suppose my concern was more with what was happening regarding VAR (thinking, somewhat foolishly, that we were all in this together).
 
Bill the Blue said:
City and others having their pockets picked by VAR you say.. . Are Liverpool lumped in with the others?.. No I didn't think so! Only 4 games in so I'm sure they'll cop for some pocket picking although I'm not holding my breath..
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... sigh - was almost done here, but here I go again - it depends on how you look at it, doesn't it? I presume that your stance is that anything that hinders City benefits Liverpool, and this on the assumption that the League is a two horse race - but how about this - Spurs, who I have no doubt will be considering themselves to be contenders, are a point closer to Liverpool after the VAR fiasco, a ruling that could, over the course of the season, affect our final league position - just a perspective, another way of looking at it ...
 
Presse said:
... sigh - was almost done here, but here I go again - it depends on how you look at it, doesn't it? I presume that your stance is that anything that hinders City benefits Liverpool, and this on the assumption that the League is a two horse race - but how about this - Spurs, who I have no doubt will be considering themselves to be contenders, are a point closer to Liverpool after the VAR fiasco, a ruling that could, over the course of the season, affect our final league position - just a perspective, another way of looking at it ...
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You seem to be living in denial. OK let me ask you two questions:
1. Do you think Liverpool significantly benefited from Ref decisions last year - i can and will cite examples, but I am interested in your holistic view
2. Do you think there were several blatant errors in the CL Quarter 2 seasons ago, all of which were in Liverpool's favour?
 
Presse said:
... phew - all cannons blazing. When you put it this way, I can now see how VAR, voted in by a majority of Premier League clubs, has been introduced, or manipultated, solely to derail Manchester City (and, now that you don't mention it, perhaps Chelsea, and Spurs - upstarts that they are ...). You must have been elated when the G14 was disbanded more than a decade ago, around the beginning of City's accumulation of successes in the Premier League - a conspiracy theorists ideal, perhaps ...

You are right in saying I spend too much time on the forums of other teams. Probably best to just swim upstream with the rest of the salmon. But, for me, better this than being seduced by the inane media coverage of our sport - at least I can stay in touch with what fans really feel.

Thanks (to Blue Moon) for allowing me the opportunity to enter your debate on VAR - the only thread I commented on because it was my sole area of interest - and I am happy to have presented myself as a target for some of you to be able to express yourselves with such controlled vehemence / eloquence - 'another fucking deluded dipper' aside - I certainly have been directed into areas of research regarding your club, and the dubious rewriting of rules which makes one wonder - FFP - I had never considered the bigger financial picture and the behind closed doors manipulation of protecting revenue streams, yet, perhaps niavely as suggested, I still cannot connect all the dots that reveal the image that UEFA and the media and PGMOL etc. are all invested in putting City back in the box - who really gives a fuck what the media has to say anyway - read, don't read - I suppose my concern was more with what was happening regarding VAR (thinking, somewhat foolishly, that we were all in this together).
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No. The idea is great. But the road to Hell paved with good intentions.

To some extent you are right. It isn't just City that VAR (and FFP) are being used to hinder. It's anyone who threatens the status quo. So FFP stops investment but City had already made their investment. Hence why there is now clamour to find something we did wrong 5 yeas ago.

And you believe the ECA has replaced the G14 ? That Birkirkara have the same voice as Bayern Munich, Liverpool etc ? Crikey
 
Presse said:
... almost, but not quite - did say that I can accept that VAR could be corrupt, but not for the sake of Liverpool, United or SKY TV - more like gambling syndicates. The randomly implemented decisions have not all been against you though, have they? Others are taking the hit of VAR ...
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Any chance of getting my car stereo back that was taken from near anfield in 1981?
 
lasereyes said:
You seem to be living in denial. OK let me ask you two questions:
1. Do you think Liverpool significantly benefited from Ref decisions last year - i can and will cite examples, but I am interested in your holistic view
2. Do you think there were several blatant errors in the CL Quarter 2 seasons ago, all of which were in Liverpool's favour?
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1: Undoubtedly - most teams / supporters can reflect on decisions that go for, or against.
2: There were errors in the QF - offside - penalty claim.

These points are pre Premier League VAR, which is, after all, the nature of the thread. VAR has been introduced to reach the correct decisions, which is what is expected come what may - I have very little time for any blatantly incorrect decisions and want to see a VAR implementation fit for purpose.
 
Newman Noggs said:
Manchester United, Liverpool and Arsenal as the richest and, hence, the most successful clubs.

À propos Preese's point about Spurs. No threat at all. Everyone except Spurs fans knows Spurs are Spursy.
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Do you know what status quo means?

Manchester United, Liverpool and Arsenal have won 1 league title in 8 years between them. Other clubs have won 10 of the last 15 titles. They have not been the richest clubs in the country for 11 years.

You cannot maintain a status quo that hasn't existed for a decade.
 
Newman Noggs said:
No. The idea is great. But the road to Hell paved with good intentions.

To some extent you are right. It isn't just City that VAR (and FFP) are being used to hinder. It's anyone who threatens the status quo. So FFP stops investment but City had already made their investment. Hence why there is now clamour to find something we did wrong 5 yeas ago.

And you believe the ECA has replaced the G14 ? That Birkirkara have the same voice as Bayern Munich, Liverpool etc ? Crikey
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... I don't believe that that the ECA has replaced G14, I don't know enough about the workings of either to hold an opinion quite frankly - I do know that Manchester City are a member of the ECA though, along with 8 others from the Premier League of course ...
 
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