Another new Brexit thread

[meltonblue]

Somewhat sceptical of the ‘backers of Brexit betting on a no deal crash out’ angle but here is Hammond giving it some credence

‘It’s official. Philip Hammond in today’s Times confirming that Boris Johnson is committed to a hard Brexit because the disaster capitalists who backed his campaign will make millions’

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/i-no-longer-recognise-this-party-of-radicals-cpdmxcxwf

I’m increasingly believing that angle tbh for certain individuals, especially given there’s been no signs of any concrete alternative proposals in the negotiations. The next couple of weeks will be very telling. I’m sure there are some that are still wanting to push for it for ideological reasons, I don’t think that’s the case across the board though.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Fuck....

You've mellowed a bit ;-)

Blackface is an 'entirely acceptable bit of fun', says Conservative MP
Sir Desmond Swayne said he "went to some trouble to be as authentic as possible" when he went to a party as a black singing star.

This guy suddenly appeared, across the media, interviewed on Sky etc, after the Supreme Court judgement, obviously pushed forward to indicate the Government's rottweiler stance & then in the middle of this toxic atmosphere, decides to make these comments.

It's not an accident, they are deliberately trying to erode standards, so that becomes normal.

There was a whole debate in Parliament purely to try & determine if the Prime Minister will do as Parliament has instructed, in the event that a deal, or no deal, does not get through Parlliament. They won't answer specifically.

The point was made, that no previous Government on either side, would have even required such a debate.

Prior to this, they would trust the Prime Minister to do what is right, Mrs Thatch, anyone. They would just do it. That 'trust' has gone.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Just keep ramping it up boys, you're dancng to the extremists tune very well - let's all have it end in a nice bloodbath eh?

Ah it's OUR FAULT.

Fuck. If only I had not mentioned the fact the Prime minister is an extremist, lying ****, he would have acted in a completely different manner.

 

[hgblue]

Essentially that is exactly what is happening.

Look i have no issue in demands for his language to be toned down, none at all. Constantly calling the Benn act was childish at best and below any PM. It was very deliberate and very confrontational. His Humbug comment was crass to say the least and he should apologise.

Its the stunning double standards on show that gets me.

What has actually happened is that the losing side in a referendum has refused to accept the result and this is leading to huge ructions in society. Rather than owning that and arguing that this is a price worth paying for staying in the EU, they deflect and attempt to pass the buck. If people were asking for all sides to tone down the rhetoric I could get behind that, but they aren’t even willing to do that. Remainers have split into two camps, one just simply wants to cancel the referendum result and the other proposes a rigged referendum. How they have the balls to claim the moral high ground is beyond me.

 

[Ban-jani]

What has actually happened is that the losing side in a referendum has refused to accept the result and this is leading to huge ructions in society. Rather than owning that and arguing that this is a price worth paying for staying in the EU, they deflect and attempt to pass the buck. If people were asking for all sides to tone down the rhetoric I could get behind that, but they aren’t even willing to do that. Remainers have split into two camps, one just simply wants to cancel the referendum result and the other proposes a rigged referendum. How they have the balls to claim the moral high ground is beyond me.

Absolutely untrue yet again.

I’m willing to leave with a deal or another referendum.

Those are my two positions and the positions of the vast majority of remainers on this board.

You cannot just paint the picture you wish to without facts to back it up.

Remainers like myself haven’t had any influence on what happens with Brexit since the vote. For the majority of that time both sides of the house have committed to leaving and have tried to put forward proposals to do so.

The problem is now the light of day has arrived, every single possible way of leaving is shit and that’s why no proposal can get a majority.

You’ve also got a new breed of hardcore leavers who fetish no deal as being some sort of extension to WW2 and the great British spirit and they won’t accept anything, even any sort of deal. Which is totally different to what those very people said in 2016.

Rather than blaming remain voters, who haven’t had any influence since 2016, try owning your own shit for once.

As I say, I’ll leave with a deal, any sort of deal that allows us low tariff trade and upholds the Good Friday Agreement is good enough for me.

 

[urban genie]

Is it not right to call out the official opposition if they could become government in a few weeks time?

I can separate no problem but wont when you are desperately trying to gain some moral high ground yet have none if you then turn a blind eye to the rhetoric from your own side and worse still, excuse it as if it was nothing.

How can I be trying to claim moral high ground, I said any public figure using inflamitary rhetoric is out of order, plus I openly admitted I see insurection in some cases acceptable.

I was talking about legalities of saying lets riot, why it has been beered into a conversation I have already had I ain't sure.

My opinion on this isn't party political, I have aready said any in public office or spheres of influence should mind what they say and their language.

 

[Len Rum]

Meanwhile in other Brexit news Stevie who? has written a grovelling letter to Barnier asking for the EU to help us in the event of a No Deal Brexit.
He has received a very polite reply referring him to the Withdrawal agreement.

 

[urban genie]

What has actually happened is that the losing side in a referendum has refused to accept the result and this is leading to huge ructions in society. Rather than owning that and arguing that this is a price worth paying for staying in the EU, they deflect and attempt to pass the buck. If people were asking for all sides to tone down the rhetoric I could get behind that, but they aren’t even willing to do that. Remainers have split into two camps, one just simply wants to cancel the referendum result and the other proposes a rigged referendum. How they have the balls to claim the moral high ground is beyond me.

What has happened if you step back and be objective towards all of it is 35% of eligible voters voted to leave, 32% voted to remain 32% never bothered to vote at all. The other 12Million ineligable to vote didn't have a say

Such fine margings has split the nation and either side shouting at the other won't solve it, there really wasn't any winners or losers in all of this, just division.

As it is of the ones that did bother to vote, well leaving won, so let's leave in a sensible way and then see what happens, how long that takes shouldn't be an issue, that it is done correctly with an actual plan is.

Bad planning by cameron and then stuborness by may has left us scrambling for an answer since december

 

[mcfc1632]

I rather think that the trend in Scotland will lead to a further vote to leave the UK regardless of Brexit. To a degree Brexit has been a good scapegoat to hang on that issue and to bury the real reasons that seemingly more and more Scots are inclined to favour independence from England and the rule of Westminster.

Reminds me almost of the whole blame for the world banking crash was made out to be entirely the fault of Gordon Clown and the Labour government. They certainly did not handle it well but the reality is that no matter who was in government at the time it would have still happened but the Tories sold the idea that it was Labours fault which fooled the gullible electorate into putting them in power. They have since done little else other than claim such was the catastrophic mess created entirely by Labour they have at least until now insisted we all had to take it up the arse and there is little or nothing they can do to alter that.

One thing is certain and that is whoever ends up in government will use the Brexit fiasco to justify their own inevitable failure to the country. Whether we end up leaving or remaining the country is fucked beyond repair and whilst I am and would once again be a marginal leaver I doubt whether Brexit in whatever form or no Brexit at all will be used by whoever is in power to justify the further social financial and moral decline of this country. The truth in my view is that Brexit has been a convenient peg to hang the hat of blame for all our ills on.

I honestly believe we will now remain and that will be followed by disaster after disaster as this country continues to tear itself apart. I am sorry to say this country has a future of class religious and ethnic conflict that will make these years of Brexit viewed as relatively good times. The realisation that actually whether we stay go or something in between probably makes little or no difference to the catastrophies that lie ahead will hit many like a train.

If it were not for my lads I would truly not give a fuck anymore on account of the fact that the worst of the shit storm on the horizon will hit after I have gone and we are probably headed to what we deserve.

I firmly believe that if we Remain in the EU then Scotland will leave the UK within 10 years

Strangely and something seemingly not understood by some Remainers on here, if we were to genuinely Leave the EU in the next 2 years that is unlikely to happen.

 

[Gabriel]

I firmly believe that if we Remain in the EU the Scotland will leave the UK within 10 years

Strangely and something seemingly not understood by some Remainers on here, if we were to genuinely Leave the UK in the next 2 years that is unlikely to happen.

Sorry, butI’m definitely not understanding that. :-(

 

[cibaman]

Apparently the opposition parties are meeting on Monday to decide on whether to table a vote of no confidence. Could it be that Sturgeon and Swinson will be asking Corbyn to lead a government of national unity and he will be suggesting that it should be someone else?

On Tuesday Barry Gardner suggested that there should be a government of national unity to take us through a second referendum and then a General Election. In the Times today it’s been claimed that Labour haven’t ruled out a government of national unity led by someone other than Corbyn or delaying a General Election. Presumably they’ve worked out that, given where they are in the polls, they’re best delaying an election until after the referendum, when the Lib Dem’s might no longer take as many votes from them. And they’ve realised that if the election is delayed for the best part of a year there’s little chance of Corbyn having enough support to act as caretaker PM for so long.

Yesterday Sturgeon called for a Vonc followed by an immediate General Election. She didn’t rule out the government of national unity being led by Corbyn. The SNP must be desperate for a General Election before a referendum is held that probably keeps us in the Eu. Similarly the Lib Dem’s keep asking for a referendum but will surely pick up more seats in a General Election held before a referendum.

It all makes for an interesting meeting on Monday, assuming of course that they have the votes to win a vonc.

 

[mcfc1632]

State of this and it’s us leavers that are thick cunts?

I was just about to reply with something similar - you saved me bothering.

Sone of the Remain posters on here just drip hatred, contempt - and recently - envy

Apparently without thinking about how they make themselves look

 

[BobKowalski]

Sorry, butI’m definitely not understanding that. :-(

The thinking is that U.K. would be outside of the EU Customs Union and Single Market which means independence would mean customs borders etc if Scotland joined the EU. It’s the reverse of the argument used in the referendum that independence would mean custom borders etc because Scotland would be outside of the EU and the CU and Single Market.

The flaw is assuming the drive for independence would be economically driven whereas its likely to be England is just openly shitting on us now so let’s make it stop.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

I was just about to reply with something similar - you saved me bothering.

Sone of the Remain posters on here just drip hatred, contempt - and recently - envy

Apparently without thinking about how they make themselves look

how you look doesn’t stop you coming out with bollocks though does it?

 

[urban genie]

I was just about to reply with something similar - you saved me bothering.

Sone of the Remain posters on here just drip hatred, contempt - and recently - envy

Apparently without thinking about how they make themselves look

Envy?

Doubt anyone on any side is envious of the present shitshow

 

[BobKowalski]

Apparently the opposition parties are meeting on Monday to decide on whether to table a vote of no confidence. Could it be that Sturgeon and Swinson will be asking Corbyn to lead a government of national unity and he will be suggesting that it should be someone else?

On Tuesday Barry Gardner suggested that there should be a government of national unity to take us through a second referendum and then a General Election. In the Times today it’s been claimed that Labour haven’t ruled out a government of national unity led by someone other than Corbyn or delaying a General Election. Presumably they’ve worked out that, given where they are in the polls, they’re best delaying an election until after the referendum, when the Lib Dem’s might no longer take as many votes from them. And they’ve realised that if the election is delayed for the best part of a year there’s little chance of Corbyn having enough support to act as caretaker PM for so long.

Yesterday Sturgeon called for a Vonc followed by an immediate General Election. She didn’t rule out the government of national unity being led by Corbyn. The SNP must be desperate for a General Election before a referendum is held that probably keeps us in the Eu. Similarly the Lib Dem’s keep asking for a referendum but will surely pick up more seats in a General Election held before a referendum.

It all makes for an interesting meeting on Monday, assuming of course that they have the votes to win a vonc.

I think there is an excellent chance a temp Govt will be installed and the chances are greater purely because of Johnson himself. Under any other PM there would be zero chance of it happening. Next week or so are going to be interesting to say the least.

 

[1.618034]

I was just about to reply with something similar - you saved me bothering.

Sone of the Remain posters on here just drip hatred, contempt - and recently - envy

Apparently without thinking about how they make themselves look

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

Apparently the opposition parties are meeting on Monday to decide on whether to table a vote of no confidence. Could it be that Sturgeon and Swinson will be asking Corbyn to lead a government of national unity and he will be suggesting that it should be someone else?

On Tuesday Barry Gardner suggested that there should be a government of national unity to take us through a second referendum and then a General Election. In the Times today it’s been claimed that Labour haven’t ruled out a government of national unity led by someone other than Corbyn or delaying a General Election. Presumably they’ve worked out that, given where they are in the polls, they’re best delaying an election until after the referendum, when the Lib Dem’s might no longer take as many votes from them. And they’ve realised that if the election is delayed for the best part of a year there’s little chance of Corbyn having enough support to act as caretaker PM for so long.

Yesterday Sturgeon called for a Vonc followed by an immediate General Election. She didn’t rule out the government of national unity being led by Corbyn. The SNP must be desperate for a General Election before a referendum is held that probably keeps us in the Eu. Similarly the Lib Dem’s keep asking for a referendum but will surely pick up more seats in a General Election held before a referendum.

It all makes for an interesting meeting on Monday, assuming of course that they have the votes to win a vonc.

Something will have to give soon if the other parties want to stop no deal because I can't see Johnson obeying the law and looking for an extension.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Nothing, per se. Just seemed a bit much to be lauding their bravery!

Not lauding it really Ric. Just highlighting to those who seem to think otherwise, that as a job, it is not exactly like falling off a log. People who work in the City from my experience work just as hard as anyone else and the ones at the sharp end have truly difficult and very stressful jobs. And the millionaires trying to make millions, stand to lose millions as well.

 

[yerwot?]

The idea increasingly being clung to by brexits, that we leave and then reapply would be a compromise..and we have to compromise or there will be "blood on the streets". How about we rerun the referendum this time with all possible outccomes in the public domain, instead of the blank cheque that brexit insists we voted for. No compromise needed justice seen to be done
All right collateral damage, as in canals being blocked with brexits and faragists (blessing in disguise ;) but no rivers of blood