Another new Brexit thread

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Mëtal Bikër said:
And i also stated Scotland was not a country in the sovereign sense either. Both the south east and scotland are regions of the UK. Now say again, where is that me saying "Scotland is a country" YOUR words.

You see, you do it to yourself half the time.
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Like I said, I didn't mention sovereignty you did.
Scotland IS a country. Not a sovereign state.
You implied it was such because you said the South East couldn't secede because it's not a country, whereas Scotland potentially could. I only ever said that it was an implication. You've made the rest up and twisted the argument like you always do.
I am not interested in any more of your inane ill-informed rubbish on this subject.
Cue meme.
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
Again , but when do we have penalties to end it. There has to be an end to the game at some point
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From the negotiating POV Merkel and Tusk - along with Varadkar are doing the right thing - there is no benefit to the EU of them compromising at this point. They have 3 more chances before they could face the genuine prospect of a no-deal - it is at that point they will settle.

They hope for continuous extensions and until then they can just wait it out

They hope for a 2nd of confirmatory referendum and until then they can just wait it out

Worse case for them is a GE before the other 2 options occur and then they have some risk - of course if there is not a leave majority then they can just wait it out until Brexit withers and if there is a Leave majority they can settle with a form of the Johnson proposal with N.I. only backstop the compromise at the end of transition

It has always been correct that we will not see movement from the EU unless and until they are facing the prospect of a no-deal - they have no need to move until that situation arises.
 
Chris in London said:
Whilst I tend to agree that's what will happen, it isn't what I think should happen. For many people, remain v soft brexit is no choice at all - it is remain v remain lite. The divisions in our society would be exacerbated by this, not resolved. Equally, Johnson's idea of crashing out is not only just as socially divisive, but economically far more damaging.

It seems to me that if we as a nation choose to amputate our own leg without anaesthetic, being clear that this is what we are choosing to do, so be it. I would hope the nation has more sense, but I can't see that this nightmare will come to an end unless a meaningful leave option is pitted against remain. Ideally, all three options - hard brexit, soft brexit & remain would go against each other on the basis of a single transferable vote, but just as a hard brexit v no deal brexit choice would do nothing to heal the wounds in our society, neither would (say) remain v retain membership of customs union.
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The problem as Cameron realised is that you need a majority government and one that will genuinely deliver on the selected outcome in a referendum. Cameron had no intention of delivering brexit so when goes against him he is sunk. May suspected her MPs would not back and called a GE - since then we have had no majority for anything.

The Labour position is pretty clear in that they would do a soft brexit if they had to so they could offer a soft brexit v remain ref where they most likely could and would deliver either outcome. Could they do it as part of a coalition - possibly not and they would be running the same gambit as Cameron - hope you get the result you can live with.

Could you really have a single body of MPs willing to implement anything from a no deal to remain. I doubt it.
 
Gaudion M said:
I seriously doubt that BoJo can hold his government together through this - he looks to be setting up a No Deal as the only option strategy. There are people in the cabinet who would have been comfortable with no deal as a bargaining ploy but to end up in a position where it is the only acceptable outcome will not be supportable for many.

They may just sit there and lump it for a while but when it comes to the crunch they will resign. I suspect many tory MPs are having to think long and hard about what the manifesto will say at the next GE and whether or not they can stand on that basis. Even if they stand on I still think BoJo will have discipline problem with a majority. MPs know what this is and will oppose it - even Tories. It's car crash politics.
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Not entirely convinced they will. Most will put party loyalty above everything else. And with a GE looming, the tone of which will be framed round the message below.

It will be an MPs patriotic duty to back Johnson anything else will be treason and we will torch relations with 27 countries for a generation or two.

 
Saddleworth2 said:
I’m not going to go back and quote all of the anti Scottish rhetoric over the last few days but there is a shed load. Balanced discussion is welcome but generally the Scottish situation is painted with a very broad brush and little nuance. And I’m not ‘stooping to tactics’ nearly reflecting on what I read.
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Fair enough - I strongly suggest that if you did go over the posts you would see that it is debating an important issue rather than the English wanting the Scots out of the Unio

TBF I was clear that I did not associate you with stooping to the disingenuous levels others leap to
 
west didsblue said:
Like I said, I didn't mention sovereignty you did.
Scotland IS a country. Not a sovereign state.
You implied it was such because you said the South East couldn't secede because it's not a country, whereas Scotland potentially could. I only ever said that it was an implication. You've made the rest up and twisted the argument like you always do.
I am not interested in any more of your inane ill-informed rubbish on this subject.
Cue meme.
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Basically, you've seen your arse, realised you made a stupid comment, haven't been able to back it up with relevant quotes, and now you're getting all pissy.

"I am not interested in any more of your inane ill-informed rubbish on this subject."
One that you started...

Next time don't make accusations about people unless you can back it up, especially when you're trying to portray someone else as some sort of hypocrite, k! That calls for only one reaction from me. (since you asked for it)


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blueinsa said:
Hang on Bob.

You tell us this is what will happen, Merkel confirms it and then you say she didnt?

Backstop was a trap and was always Dublins and the EU's plan to effectively annex Northern Ireland.

Not interested in a deal and they couldnt give a rats arse about the GFA either.
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That is the very obvious truth - missed by so many
 
BobKowalski said:
Not entirely convinced they will. Most will put party loyalty above everything else. And with a GE looming, the tone of which will be framed round the message below.

It will be an MPs patriotic duty to back Johnson anything else will be treason and we will torch relations with 27 countries for a generation or two.

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Oh fucking ell....
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Basically, you've seen your arse, realised you made a stupid comment, haven't been able to back it up with relevant quotes, and now you're getting all pissy.

"I am not interested in any more of your inane ill-informed rubbish on this subject."
That you started...

Next time don't make accusations about people unless you can back it up, especially when you're trying to portray someone else as some sort of hypocrite, k!

That calls for only one reaction from me. (since you asked for it)


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It was a comment on you moving goalposts when it suits.
The fact you don't appear to have the capacity to understand my point is your problem not mine.
 
FlemishDuck said:
Yeah but surely they wouldn't say no if the majority of Scots choose more autonomy or even idependance. The'd buckle because they don't want to opress anyone.
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Which is how our democracy works. So there you go, England isn't subjugating Scotland, is it.
 
west didsblue said:
It was a comment on you moving goalposts when it suits.
The fact you don't appear to have the capacity to understand my point is your problem not mine.
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The fact you think I was moving any is an example of your incapacity to understand what i'm saying, which is your problem, not mine.

And you say this, yet continue to engage with me. You must be a glutton for punishment. Still waiting on that post that has me stating "I think Scotland is a sovereign country", like you claimed.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Which is how our democracy works. So there you go, England isn't subjugating Scotland, is it.
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See? We can agree, gets to the point afcourse that the discontent in Scotland and the potential for them to leave the Union seems something to take rather serious as a distinct possibilety.
 
FlemishDuck said:
See? We can agree, gets to the point afcourse that the discontent in Scotland and the potential for them to leave the Union seems something to take rather serious as a distinct possibilety.
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Yes it is, but that doesn't mean that Scotland is wholly against the decision as over 1m Scottish voters voted to leave the EU in support of those in England, Wales and Northern Ireland who voted the same way as they did.

Because we voted as representative of the United Kingdom, not Great Britain and Northern Ireland, not as England, Northern Ireland, Scotland or Wales; the UK.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Hong Kong may have played a role there, I suspect.
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It has gone down today sharply, not over a sustained period i.e from when the protests started. Also, it is a pattern, the UK fuck up and the pound goes down. Then it recovers a little then we do something to create instability and rinse and repeat

I had a quick look Google and couldn't find anything abut their protests directly affecting the £
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
The fact you think I was moving any is an example of your incapacity to understand what i'm saying, which is your problem, not mine.

And you say this, yet continue to engage with me. You must be a glutton for punishment. Still waiting on that post that has me stating "I think Scotland is a sovereign country", like you claimed.
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Stop embarrassing yourself.
On the other hand, carry on. It's funny.
 
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