Another new Brexit thread

[yerwot?]

Followed swiftly by the 7 horsemen of the apocalypse right?

The extra 3 must be immigrants, knife carrying job stealing bastards get everywhere
War pestilence plague and famine, plumbers brickies onion sellers ....

 

[Blue Hefner]

prosper, flourish

Your definition, not the dictionary’s. It could be argued that large parts of the country are flourishing already. See the cranes in Manchester, London and investment elsewhere. Unemployment is at an all time low and wages are on the increase

 

[MillionMilesAway]

It’s perfectly plausible (though less than likely imo) that a second vote could be to leave once again. That would significantly put the matter to bed without any meaningful doubt. A vote to remain wouldn’t, that’s for sure.

It might be catastrophic in terms of trust in referenda though.

So there's a bonus.

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

It’s pretty clear that we are arriving fast at the point where the only options are no deal and no Brexit. I’ve put this point to a number of people who would prefer to leave with a deal but are faced with having to choose between two options they don’t like. Those who have said they would prefer a no deal Brexit to no Brexit at all have, to a man, said that they would do so because to do otherwise would undermine democracy.

Quite apart from whether it would undermine democracy, I find it interesting that not one person has said that there is any sort of economic benefit, or constitutional advantage, or increase of sovereignty or anything.

In other words, the supposed advantages of Brexit have vanished from view. All that’s left is that Leave won.

No deal is not going to be allowed to happen because of Ireland.

Revoking, the May W.A or a softer brexit (that includes freedom of movement) are the only logical ways forward.

 

[George Hannah]

It’s perfectly plausible (though less than likely imo) that a second vote could be to leave once again. That would significantly put the matter to bed without any meaningful doubt. A vote to remain wouldn’t, that’s for sure.

After the process involved in getting to that second referendum as described by Blair the idea of anything being put to bed, except a few thousand demonstration casualties, is pure whimsy.

 

[stonerblue]

2016: Conservative Party :- Eu citizens will have the exact same rights as they have now

2017 - 2018 :Conservative Party :- Stop Scaring Eu citizens with project fear ..... Nothing will change!

2019 : Conservative party :- Deport the f*ckers!

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ettled-status-could-be-deported-minister-says


And the sheep keep saying that Brexit isn't about immigration .....

A friend of mine has lived in uk for 15 years and has English wife. 3 months ago he was given an appointment to go to Bury and register for summat or other. When he got there it took 20mins for the door to be answered. He then walked upto top floor of an empty building and was met with a .'why are you here, we're not ready yet'. That was 2 weeks ago.

 

[Coatigan]

Trust me here as a leave voter.

Any second ref that is held with the result of the first not enacted ie we have left the EU will be an utter disaster for our democracy.

I disagree. For me, it is an essential part of the process of enacting the first one. Given where we are and how much clearer things are.

If the hardcore brexiters hadnt highjacked it to force the extreme version, i wouldnt be for it one bit. But given that it is brexiters blocking brexit, because it isn't brexity enough for them, a clear mandate one way or the other (best deal possible, or can the lot) is the only way forward. Then if a political party wants to go about campaigning on a no deal brexit, thats theirs to do.

 

[Coatigan]

See @blueinsa reply to this poster just now. A second referendum before a GE and before the first has been honoured would be catastrophic for any trust in government. Those who are proposing it are simply trying to stop Brexit, it is a completely dishonest and dangerous diversion.

See my response above. My opinion on that is genuine, and when i say for me that isn't to 'stop' brexit, but to actuallly draw a line in it. You can believe me or not, obviously.

 

[blueinsa]

I disagree. For me, it is an essential part of the process of enacting the first one. Given where we are and how much clearer things are.

If the hardcore brexiters hadnt highjacked it to force the extreme version, i wouldnt be for it one bit. But given that it is brexiters blocking brexit, because it isn't brexity enough for them, a clear mandate one way or the other (best deal possible, or can the lot) is the only way forward. Then if a political party wants to go about campaigning on a no deal brexit, thats theirs to do.

I can only give you my opinion and it is you are as wrong as wrong can be.

Remain has been vocal for 3 years and rightly so but wait for leave to pipe up if a second ref is called and we are still in the EU.

That's not a threat per se, more of a promise.

 

[Blue Hefner]

At least we won't have EU 'red tape' anymore - nothing about services, though

 

[RabidCity]

Your definition, not the dictionary’s. It could be argued that large parts of the country are flourishing already. See the cranes in Manchester, London and investment elsewhere. Unemployment is at an all time low and wages are on the increase

Yes, we've ok whilst in the EU. We can do well out of it also.

 

[meltonblue]

He did indeed say he would prefer that wouldn't happen but that is patently self-contradictory. His unpalatable 6 month 'government of national unity' i.e. ill-assorted group of remainers agreed on nothing else - is the only path to a second referendum being staged before a GE - and as Neil repeatedly pointed out - the dogs on the streets can see through Blair's desperation to stop Brexit by any means. Morally and intellectually dishonest - the trademarks of this whole disgusting farrago of mendacious absurdity.

Again though, that wasn’t the point he was making. He said the order that he would want it to happen but fully acknowledged that none of it would. I completely agree with him too - it’s conflating two separate issues. A referendum to sort out Brexit (in the absence of parliament being able to do it, which is the only time personally I’d ever advocate a referendum) and an election to sort out parliament.

 

[George Hannah]

No deal is not going to be allowed to happen because of Ireland. Revoking, the May W.A or a softer brexit (that includes freedom of movement) are the only logical ways forward.

Brexit is undoubtedly very bad for Ireland but just to be clear, the UK being trapped inside the EU is not because of the risks to the GFA but because of what will be presented as unworkable adaptations required for the continued operation of EU single market. These objections are of course completely fake, the reality is they are just a pretext for EU/Irish determination to stop Brexit any way they can. If a No Deal does actually happen (which I think is highly unlikely) the EU will have no hesitation in setting up very similar fiscal border arrangements to the ones it has rejected and which maintain its legal integrity. The Irish government will then declare, quite truthfully, it has fully met its Belfast treaty obligations and the frontier is soft. Such is the duplicity in play throughout this sorry saga.

 

[Blue Hefner]

Yes, we've ok whilst in the EU. We can do well out of it also.

Do you have any thing concrete to back that up? Any way of measuring what 'do well' actually means and what is the time frame in which this can be achieved and do you believe that some people will pay a price in the meantime?

 

[blueinsa]

Brexit is undoubtedly very bad for Ireland but just to be clear, the UK being trapped inside the EU is not because of the risks to the GFA but because of what will be presented as unworkable adaptations required for the continued operation of EU single market. These objections are of course completely fake, the reality is they are just a pretext for EU/Irish determination to stop Brexit any way they can. If a No Deal does actually happen (which I think is highly unlikely) the EU will have no hesitation in setting up very similar fiscal border arrangements to the ones it has rejected and which maintain its legal integrity. The Irish government will then declare, quite truthfully, it has fully met its Belfast treaty obligations and the frontier is soft. Such is the duplicity in play throughout this sorry saga.

This, this and more this!

 

[mcfc1632]

Leave the EU.

To explain that further and in its simplest terms it means not remaining in any way shape or form which is what the losing side wanted.

Preferably with a deal.

If that isn't possible then without one.

It never was difficult was it

Leavers do not have a problem

Remainers seem to need to obfuscate

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

Brexit is undoubtedly very bad for Ireland but just to be clear, the UK being trapped inside the EU is not because of the risks to the GFA but because of what will be presented as unworkable adaptations required for the continued operation of EU single market. These objections are of course completely fake, the reality is they are just a pretext for EU/Irish determination to stop Brexit any way they can. If a No Deal does actually happen (which I think is highly unlikely) the EU will have no hesitation in setting up very similar fiscal border arrangements to the ones it has rejected and which maintain its legal integrity. The Irish government will then declare, quite truthfully, it has fully met its Belfast treaty obligations and the frontier is soft. Such is the duplicity in play throughout this sorry saga.

If the EU wanted to stop brexit why did they come to the W.A with may? Surely if they wanted to thwart it they wouldn't agree to anything?

 

[blueinsa]

Do you have any thing concrete to back that up? Any way of measuring what 'do well' actually means and what is the time frame in which this can be achieved and do you believe that some people will pay a price in the meantime?

This is dull.

Same thing over and over and over again.

Lets do....do you have 100% proof of the doomsday scenario you tell us will happen?

Here is a fact. leave won, we leave and posts like your deserve nothing more than that i am sorry but your line of questioning isn't clever, or new its boring as fuck and has been done to death and frankly pointless as the ref has been and gone.

"He doesnt have to prove anything to you or provide any evidence is the answer".

*rant over*

 

[mcfc1632]

I voted to leave the EU.
Briefly, just explain why you voted to remain in the EU.
Tell us why you agree with supporting your own parliament, and 2 others in Europe. Briefly, why you support the juristiction of the ECJ, your reasons for supporting federalism, your
support for a convicted negligent as EU President, and the manner of her election.
After an in depth response has been received, and given my approval, I'll put some more questions up.

Do you see what you, and all the others who refuse to accept a democratic vote have been, and still are, doing here?

Just catching up

Good Post that

Will I find a lot of detailed replies from Remainers I wonder

 

[hgblue]

Varadkar and Johnson can see a pathway to deal.....