Another new Brexit thread

[mcfc1632]

Confusing facts and conclusions is a new low, even for you. You can't possibly be claiming that something that hasnt happened yet is a fact, surely.

I have just listed some facts for @Saddleworth2 I think it was

Let's discuss them - see if you can prove me wrong

 

[Ancient Citizen]

He does, if the Scottish parliament passes the motion for one. In which the snp, along with the geeens, have the numbers, and the mandate, as it was in their 2016 manifesto.

It would be catastrophic if he were to say no, for democracy. The equivalent to the EU saying the UK cant Brexit.

Particularly if the deal sets a precedent of NI defacto remaining in the EU.

Not really, the Scots were granted a referendum and voted in it to stay. The UK had one and voted to leave the EU, there is no equivalence in the EU agitating to deny that, the UK accepted the Scottish result, it didn't ask them to do it again.
Sometimes, 'Once in a lifetime' has to be accepted.

 

[BobKowalski]

Bless - TBF - I appreciate the last day or so must have been hard for you

Over 3 years - and 100s of posts - setting yourself up as the 'Go to' person for Bluemoon Remainers needing to know what to think and say. You have become for them the next best thing after James O'Brien.

The hours you have put in to promote yourself as the Oracle and there you have it...………..

Events change and the reality crashes in to prove that you are just another person with a Twitter account that knows how to cut and paste

Not sure I should be flattered or not.

On a side note that’s a lot of bitterness and resentment you have been storing up there. Not healthy.

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

How do Scotland hold an independence referendum?

Much like the UK held a non binding referendum on European Union membership, the Scots could potentially hold an advisory referendum without the support of UK parliament

https://fullfact.org/law/can-scotland-legally-hold-another-referendum/

 

[mcfc1632]

Indeed, or if it happens before their arbitrary 2024 (because remember, 10 years seems fair, how generous of them).

Hey I suggested 2024 just because 10 years after a once in a generation vote seemed reasonable.

It can be any time following 1 year after the UK has genuinely left the EU for all I care - to leave or not is a matter for Scottish voters (spoiler: they will not vote to Leave)

 

[George Hannah]

A sensible take on the situation

Sumption should stick to the 100 years war. Totally discredited as an even-handed commentator these days, lamenting the Brexit process ever happened together with its unwelcome and unanticipated consequences doesn't change the reality that it did. His claim that the 2016 referendum was just a snapshot of public opinion was incredibly insulting as was the denial of its democratic consequences as a mandate for government.

 

[BobKowalski]

He has no reasons at all to grant one, the SNP wanting one is no reason at all.
What is this stance 'Feeding'
and why should he allow it?
After leaving the EU, that's the end of them, yes, they may keep, or even gain seats, but this idea of leaving the UK and joining the EU is a daydream, one that's not happening.
As stated by many on here, UKIP, and the BP, will be history, their purpose redundant, the SNP, although
not redundant, will slowly die imo.

The English ‘grant’ and ‘allow’. But they do not ‘feed’ Scottish nationalist sentiment.

Priceless.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

oh here it comes again. please don't go ahead and prove the very point you are supposedly arguing. please.

If I could understand the objection to whatever it is/was I was supposed to be arguing about, I would be happy to.

 

[bluethrunthru]

She meant "...what no Prime Minister who has just fucked up her majority and left herself dependent on the DUP could ever consider...."

as opposed to the " Prime Minister who inherited that deficient majority then strengthened his hand by removing the whip from a further 21 of his own MP's " ? That one?

 

[mcfc1632]

But you're just repeating your own Leave mantra. I'm repeating Leave's own mantra.

I am only posting what is clearly a truth because I sense that there is a lack of understanding that it is a truth

You keep posting what was a lie - because you feel the need to ensure that everyone sees it is a lie

Quite similar - anyway, thanks for trying to provide helpful advice

 

[mcfc1632]

Sorry am I being thick but what is an 'unfettered backstop' mean?

There will be a backstop by the sounds of things. But 'unfettered'?

I assume that this will have already been answered?

But happy to explain if I find it hasn't

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Much like the UK held a non binding referendum on European Union membership, the Scots could potentially hold an advisory referendum without the support of UK parliament

https://fullfact.org/law/can-scotland-legally-hold-another-referendum/

It wouldn't have legal validity, as stated within that. This 'Moral' victory may be tempting, but not necessarily productive, plus the UK 'Advisory' referendum route is cute, but won't fly imo.
They are in a union, the union holds sway, their chance has passed.

 

[blueparrot]

How exactly have the EU moved????

If what is being reported is true, the EU have not moved at all and Boris has made the huge concession of offering up NI. No wonder Leo was very happy with the progress. A step closer to a United Ireland.

In offering NI, Boris has removed the red line May had during negotiations of keeping the Union intact. A red line that was demanded by her own party and obviously the DUP. May must be spitting feathers!

Think the biggest problem is exactly the one May had. The tory pot isn't big enough, squeeze votes in at the DUP/ ERG end and they pop out of the 'rebel' end, squeeze the rebels back in and ERG dup pop out. It's such a fine balance, it's will take some fine refinement of the WA to pull it off. Can't see it being done by next Saturday.

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

It wouldn't have legal validity, as stated within that. This 'Moral' victory may be tempting, but not necessarily productive, plus the UK 'Advisory' referendum route is cute, but won't fly imo.
They are in a union, the union holds sway, their chance has passed.

Neither does brexit, but we're still plowing on with it.

"It’s the same as for the EU referendum: the leave vote is an instruction to politicians, who would then have to pass the laws necessary to actually make it happen.

So in that sense, any referendum in the UK is technically advisory."

 

[mcfc1632]

No you didn't. Just in case you 'forgot' I have pointed out what you said for you.

I have noticed recently that you have said one thing and then later denied saying it or intimated that you said something else. I take it that you are seeking the attention. Won't be replying to any more of your drivel.

Sorry - I read that twice and still did not really sure what you were meaning

Certainly don't think that I have said anything inconsistent

What you seem to have bolded is my statement:

"....that even the prospect of a No-Deal outcome has made the EU and Ireland move."

This is clearly and entirely accurate IMO and again IMO only those that are lying to themselves can deny that

 

[blueparrot]

It wouldn't have legal validity, as stated within that. This 'Moral' victory may be tempting, but not necessarily productive, plus the UK 'Advisory' referendum route is cute, but won't fly imo.
They are in a union, the union holds sway, their chance has passed.

The cake and eat it solution, Thought it was a Union of equals. So any part can leave when it wants, why should any part need the permission of England, or any of the other parts of the Union.

 

[George Hannah]

The English ‘grant’ and ‘allow’. But they do not ‘feed’ Scottish nationalist sentiment. Priceless.

Sentiment is exactly what the SNP is all about, it's only still here after independence was rejected because of a protest vote against the ineptitude of the current main political parties. They won't survive the harsh economic realities of the case against separation post Brexit.

 

[dave_blue12]

Sumption should stick to the 100 years war from now on. Totally discredited as an even-handed commentator these days. His claim that the 2016 referendum was just a snapshot of public opinion was incredibly insulting as was the denial of its consequences as a mandate for government.

.

Discredited you say, not a snapshot you say.

Okay

 

[journolud]

If Brexit does happen, nobody here, South of the border, will give a toss about the SNP, or their demands.
They had their referendum, voted to stay in the union, and can footstamp all they want, like 23/6/2016, it was a once in a lifetime vote.
The granting of any referendum is in the gift of the British PM, who, after 3 years and counting of this shitshow, will give their incessant squawking little attention, there is no need to.

Ah so the referendum was a "gift". Nice how it's all turned out

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Neither does brexit, but we're still plowing on with it.

"It’s the same as for the EU referendum: the leave vote is an instruction to politicians, who would then have to pass the laws necessary to actually make it happen.

So in that sense, any referendum in the UK is technically advisory."

We're plowing on with it as it's a decision of the whole of the UK, not parts of it. I understand your point and concede, that technically, you're right, but a unilateral Referendum without legal validity is extremely unlikely,again, imo.