Another new Brexit thread

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The make up of the House of Commons at this present time means it is extremely difficult for anything to be passed by the Clowns who inhabit that Assylum.

All the minority parties have agendas. The DUP do not want a united Ireland, the SNP want independence, the Lib Dems want more seats and Labour want power.

Pity Robert Catesby is still not around and it is coming up to that time of year!
 
urban genie said:
Nearly very commentator and ecconomist saying the deal is worse than Mays, but brexit fatigue looks like it may get pushed through.

She is probably sat at home laughing her tits off .
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I can’t see how it will be voted in, in Parliament. The other parties are going to obstruct it out of pure party political bitterness without seeing the bigger picture that we’ll leave without a deal.

What a bunch of leaders we have. Bojo the bumbling buffoon, Corbyn has looked ever more clueless throughout this whole saga (three years ago I was behind him), Swinson just makes stats or situations up on the spot to sensationalise it all like she’s a journalist, Sturgeon the doom and gloom merchant never has anything positive to say or a positive tone to her voice or a positive look on her face about anything ever.

That might just be the worst collection of political leaders we’ve ever seen. I don’t want a single one of them leading this country and if I were Scottish I wouldn’t want that miserable fucker neither.

I hope after this whole sorry affair that someone charismatic, positive and with good political nouse and ideas comes out of the shadows and brings this country into a new era - and the same for Scotland still being part of the Union n’all. Get rid of these twats.

Until then though we are stuck with this bunch and the people under them and I just can’t see them voting on a deal as all along all they’ve tried to do is delay, complain, delay, obstruct, make it difficult, bore everyone to tears with just being anti-Tory for the sake of political anti-Torism.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Hmmm

Predicted it for months actually

I refer you to my post #6987 - August - within which I said:

".... As part of that agreement, respect the EU's position re the protection of the SM and agree that the only practical thing to do is to have a border down the Irish Sea....."

Or how about #5357 - also August:


Or my post #7590 which again states the same prediction - Irish Sea border

Or #10692

etc. etc.

It is what comes from undertaking objective assessment and being consistent

Do you want to reply accepting that I was indeed correct in my predictions and yourself wrong with the assumption you make in this post?

As mentioned to BJ - being wrong is not a hanging offence​
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I'll hold my hands up if you can find a post where you predicted we would end up with Johnson agreeing a deal that he said no government could agree to.

I'm not sure you can claim great wisdom for a solution of using the Irish Sea as a border. That has always been an obvious if complicated solution. Did you predict that Johnson would end up agreeing to it?
 
mcfc1632 said:
Spot on - well said

Sycophants at Westminster undermining the UK

Posters on here not able to man up and accept that they have been proven to be wrong

FFS being wrong is not a hanging offence:








Congrats to George for:
but this was met with....

​
@Ban-jani I quote yours posts simply because you have tried to shout down @Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese and myself for simply stating the truth - do you need more examples?
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You are completely and utterly ridiculous aren’t you?

Literally what has happened has been entirely consistent with my posts, but you refuse to see that because you’re totally ignorant.

Let me walk you through the timeline of events, not for your sake because you don’t listen but for other people’s on here-

2016 - EU offer May the arrangement putting the border in the Irish Sea

2016 - May asks the Tory Party, specifically her Cabinet and the ERG, as well as the DUP. The answer is a stern “absolutely no”. In fact Jacob Rees-Mogg says it’s “cretinous” and Johnson says “no Prime Minister should do that deal”.

2016 - May tells the EU no.

2018 - May’s deal agreed, with the backstop.

2019 - May’s deal dead after three votes over the previous year, May resigns.

2019 - Johnson takes over and says Oct 31st or he’d “die in a ditch”.

2019 - Johnson tried to use no deal as bluff and says he’s “negotiating with EU. EU say no proposals have been put forward and that they’re prepared for no deal if new proposal or WA isn’t done

2019 - Benn Act passes

2019 - Johnson puts forward his Customs checks away from border plan A, EU and Ireland reject and say it’s not even a proper proposal

2019 - Johnson panics and decides to take Deal from 2016, Irish Sea border and add it to WA.


Then 2/3 of Bluemoon’s more ignorant Brexit voters claim they were right all along and Johnson has performed the Miracle remainers said couldn’t happen.

This is the level of sheer idiocy you and a couple more have.
 
“We would be damaging the fabric of the Union with regulatory checks and even customs controls between Great Britain and Northern Ireland, on top of those extra regulatory checks down the Irish Sea that are already envisaged in the withdrawal agreement," Johnson told the DUP party conference in November 2018. He concluded by saying 'No British govt could or should sign up to this agreement.” The bloke is a fucking snake and those being sucked in by his lies after lies are just not very bright at all. Is anyone actually thick enough to believe the clown has come up with a deal that is in the countries best interests and not for his own political gain????
 
Gray said:
The make up of the House of Commons at this present time means it is extremely difficult for anything to be passed by the Clowns who inhabit that Assylum.

All the minority parties have agendas. The DUP do not want a united Ireland, the SNP want independence, the Lib Dems want more seats and Labour want power.

Pity Robert Catesby is still not around and it is coming up to that time of year!
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There are times when I genuinely wonder if that is still the case. We’re 202 days shy of ten years of Conservative led coalition, and Labour faces an exhausted and intellectually barren Government that has nothing new to offer the country, yet it itself looks no closer to power than at any time since May 2010. Perhaps Labour like to talk about power would be more appropriate.
 
mcfc1632 said:
I often ignore the blatantly ill-informed

This deal removes the utterly ruinous UK-wide backstop - therefore it is patently better than May's deal

If you do not understand that then there is little help I can give you
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I'll post it for you again mate, maybe you made a mistake



Johnson said no prime minister could ever have a border in the Irish sea, looks like he's forgotten his own words sadly
 
wattle said:
“We would be damaging the fabric of the Union with regulatory checks and even customs controls between Great Britain and Northern Ireland, on top of those extra regulatory checks down the Irish Sea that are already envisaged in the withdrawal agreement," Johnson told the DUP party conference in November 2018. He concluded by saying 'No British govt could or should sign up to this agreement.” The bloke is a fucking snake and those being sucked in by his lies after lies are just not very bright at all. Is anyone actually thick enough to believe the clown has come up with a deal that is in the countries best interests and not for his own political gain????
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I’m not sure it even goes that far. I think the EU are taking the piss and, no matter who they dealt with or from what party, they’d have something in the deal they offered us that is a nightmare for some part of the UK. We’ve become completely fucking powerless as a country when trying to deal. We’re like the cheating husband with a cheap lawyer in a divorce settlement where the wife is holding all the cards and has a great lawyer. The EU is playing us like a fiddle.
 
Ban-jani said:
You are completely and utterly ridiculous aren’t you?

Literally what has happened has been entirely consistent with my posts, but you refuse to see that because you’re totally ignorant.

Let me walk you through the timeline of events, not for your sake because you don’t listen but for other people’s on here-

2016 - EU offer May the arrangement putting the border in the Irish Sea

2016 - May asks the Tory Party, specifically her Cabinet and the ERG, as well as the DUP. The answer is a stern “absolutely no”. In fact Jacob Rees-Mogg says it’s “cretinous” and Johnson says “no Prime Minister should do that deal”.

2016 - May tells the EU no.

2018 - May’s deal agreed, with the backstop.

2019 - May’s deal dead after three votes over the previous year, May resigns.

2019 - Johnson takes over and says Oct 31st or he’d “die in a ditch”.

2019 - Johnson tried to use no deal as bluff and says he’s “negotiating with EU. EU say no proposals have been put forward and that they’re prepared for no deal if new proposal or WA isn’t done

2019 - Benn Act passes

2019 - Johnson puts forward his Customs checks away from border plan A, EU and Ireland reject and say it’s not even a proper proposal

2019 - Johnson panics and decides to take Deal from 2016, Irish Sea border and add it to WA.


Then 2/3 of Bluemoon’s more ignorant Brexit voters claim they were right all along and Johnson has performed the Miracle remainers said couldn’t happen.

This is the level of sheer idiocy you and a couple more have.
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Correct.
The EU said the WA would not be reopened.
The British Government said that there could never be a border in the Irish Sea.
The British Government then agreed to a sea border.
The EU then agreed to open the WA.
 
wattle said:
“We would be damaging the fabric of the Union with regulatory checks and even customs controls between Great Britain and Northern Ireland, on top of those extra regulatory checks down the Irish Sea that are already envisaged in the withdrawal agreement," Johnson told the DUP party conference in November 2018. He concluded by saying 'No British govt could or should sign up to this agreement.” The bloke is a fucking snake and those being sucked in by his lies after lies are just not very bright at all. Is anyone actually thick enough to believe the clown has come up with a deal that is in the countries best interests and not for his own political gain????
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Yes.

You seem to have completely ignored the damage this paralysis is causing and the corresponding gain achieved by getting something done.
 
Rascal said:
Whilst getting an agreement is all well and good, I applaud the **** for getting one, people still do not understand how parliament should work,

MPs are not delegates, they are representatives and part of their contract with the electorate is once they are elected they are given the right to free "will" that means they can use their own judgement on any matter forthcoming.

If the "will" of the people is taken as more important as the "will" of the Parliamentarian then it undermines the basic principles of our democracy. Parliamentarians are not chancers they are using their conscience as expressed at the GE in which they were elected. Asking a person to vote against their conscience undermines their legitimacy. They become tools of the electorate rather than the conscience of the electorate.

I really am appalled at how this whole Brexit process has undermined our system of Government and the recklessness shown by people who should respect our institutions has been nothing short of disgraceful. The whole point of taking back control is rendered useless if politicians in the Legislature are expected to meekly accept the wishes of the Executive. That is not democracy it is despotism.

Ultimately it comes down to where sovereignty lies and sovereignty only rests with the people for one day on the day of General Election, the referendum has clouded that principle of sovereignty and is a reason why I am so anti referendum. We simply do not have the constitutional provision for direct democracy and I see that a 2nd referendum is now being mooted which is a huge mistake as it will further muddy the waters of where sovereignty actually lies.

I hope it isn't the case, but I think this is far from over but I don't see a way other than Parliamentary "bribery" that the deal can be passed and if that is the case then our Sovereignty is further undermined by the control of the executive.
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Speaking of referendums, McDonnell is on Radio 4 right now saying Johnson's deal should be put to a public vote and pitched against Remain
 
Psychedelic Casual said:
I’m not sure it even goes that far. I think the EU are taking the piss and, no matter who they dealt with or from what party, they’d have something in the deal they offered us that is a nightmare for some part of the UK. We’ve become completely fucking powerless as a country when trying to deal. We’re like the cheating husband with a cheap lawyer in a divorce settlement where the wife is holding all the cards and has a great lawyer. The EU is playing us like a fiddle.
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And if there is no trade deal agreed at the end of the transition period we could still be cliff-edging to disaster. Brexit just isn't "getting done" by this deal. It's on the backburner. But by then the EU will have amended Article 50 to allow a former member to crawl back in during any agreed transition period.
 
M18CTID said:
Speaking of referendums, McDonnell is on Radio 4 right now saying Johnson's deal should be put to a public vote and pitched against Remain
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Remain would probably win imo.

But that does not mean it is the right thing to do because it would solve nothing and we'd in all likelihood again imo have rioting in the streets, literally.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Or just changed his mind perhaps? As indeed many, many people have done?
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That's a bit of a cop out tbh Chip.

He said no prime minister could "ever" vote for such a deal because of what it stood for. He lies whenever it suits him and his party and is happy to abandon the small amount of principles he has when required
 
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