Var debate 2019/20

[mancity2012_eamo]

The only way to resolve this is to do away with the penalty/red card secrecy and for VAR to advise the referee to use the provided monitors to review it showing the replay on big screens (unless youre at ot or anfield cos they don't have them)

I watched Ireland being battered by the All Blacks with a Welsh ref earlier in the day and although I don’t know all the technical rules, I could hear the ref explain every decision to the opposing players telling them why each decision was made. I could hear the ref ask the TMO exactly what he wants him to verify before allowing or disallowing a try. We could hear the TMO reply back and see what exactly they were looking at.

This could could work. The problem is it is being used to further corruption not to further the sport.

 

[Brightwell Bros.]

The only way to resolve this is to do away with the penalty/red card secrecy and for VAR to advise the referee to use the provided monitors to review it showing the replay on big screens (unless youre at ot or anfield cos they don't have them)

There's actual monitors at pitch side ready to do this. This is all within everyone's powers in the current system. Doesn't need to be big screens.

 

[TonyM]

I'm seriously ready to give the rest of the season a miss. I probably won't. I feel a fool to keep watching though. I can't even joy the games between the other teams anymore, like Everton v WestHam or something. I just fel like the whole thing is a farce.

 

[RobinHood]

What’s ‘it’ though? VAR isn’t a sentient being. It’s just a series of cameras which some bloke reviews. ‘It’ doesn’t make any decisions or dare not to overrule anybody.

Blaming ‘it’ completely let’s the people off the hook which are in charge of the shit show. A human being in charge of the PL referees has decided that this is how it should be used. That guy is clearly an utter moron and has no idea what he’s doing. Every single issue we’re seeing with VAR has been caused by poor decision making from these PL law makers .

If there’s a positive, it’s that it’s actually all fixable with a bit of common sense and decency.

Great post.

 

[TheThirdDeano]

Corrupt decisions again? Well you know what they say;

 

[colin's bell helmet]

I watched Ireland being battered by the All Blacks with a Welsh ref earlier in the day and although I don’t know all the technical rules, I could hear the ref explain every decision to the opposing players telling them why each decision was made. I could hear the ref ask the TMO exactly what he wants him to verify before allowing or disallowing a try. We could hear the TMO reply back and see what exactly they were looking at.

This could could work. The problem is it is being used to further corruption not to further the sport.

It's the same in cricket when a team uses a review....all explained by the 3rd umpire for everyone to hear. Why are the useless pricks in charge of football immune to explaining decisions?

 

[paulchapo]

If all the technology mentioned here, including crowds seeing replays and hearing the conversations have been used in rugby and cricket for years, why can't the richest league in the world have it?

I don't care what excuses these wankers are telling us this is what var SHOULD be doing.

Alerting the ref when he has missed a CLEAR offside, handball, red card and penalty incident. The ref then goes to the pitch side monitor that has the same replay ready to view. He views it, hears their explanation and makes the decision. Ourselves and Watford were denied clear penalties yesterday. Burnley were denied an equaliser. JFE was never getting to that ball to clear it clip on his foot or not. Spur's were given a goal that owed everything to Ali changing the direction of the ball with his arm. Jesus was denied a goal against the same club for one nowhere near as blatant as that one yesterday.

At the moment it is ruining the game not enhancing it. I am sick and tired of hearing it is being fine tuned and all that bollocks the technology has been fine tuned for them in rugby and cricket for years. Get using it!

 

[Dubai Blue]

This could could work. The problem is it is being used to further corruption not to further the sport.

I suspect it's more of an inherent bias than outright corruption but the complete lack of transparency is slowly killing the game we all love.

Prior to it being brought in, plenty of posters on here (including myself) pointed out that this ridiculous system of VAR will simply add yet another layer where humans can manipulate results.

We're seeing it in full swing now with this "high bar" bullshit where the VAR simply agrees with whatever the on-field ref decides, regardless of the evidence he can see with his own eyes.

Take the De Bruyne one from yesterday. For certain teams (particularly some of those wearing red, surprisingly enough), on-field refs are giving those and then having their decision backed up by VAR. City, on the other hand, are regularly having those calls waved away and the VAR refuses to intervene.

It's so blatant. We haven't moved on at all from the way it used to be. In fact, we've gone backwards as we now have this charade of spending 2 mins checking a decision that is never going to be overturned. What a waste of time.

Add onto that the fact that most of the goals being disallowed are the kind of goals that no one ever had a problem with in the first place and you have to wonder what the point of it all is.

It needs to be opened up like the rugby version, turned into an appeals-based system like the NFL or fucked off completely as it's adding absolutely nothing to the game whilst simultaneously sucking all the fun out of it.

 

[Jacob Smith]

VAR is complete bollocks. How can your player be goal-side of a defender with the ball at his feet then be shoved over with from behind with two hands and you don’t get a penalty? Same as when Rodri was pushed over against Spurs, there is no explanation for either of those not being given

 

[1961_vintage]

That guy is clearly an utter moron and has no idea what he’s doing.

I think he knows exactly what he's doing.

 

[Bluethemaway]

VAR is complete bollocks. How can your player be goal-side of a defender with the ball at his feet then be shoved over with from behind with two hands and you don’t get a penalty? Same as when Rodri was pushed over against Spurs, there is no explanation for either of those not being given

At no time did Zaha even attempt to play or challenge for the ball, so definitely a penalty, no two ways about it, but as usual it was against us so like the Rodri foul they don’t count, however if a play as much as touches Mane or Salah it’s a pen !
VAR is bent, it’s being used by bent officials, who are being instructed by bent officials above them.

 

[burning blue soul]

I was sat in a bar in Cyprus yesterday watching all the games on a bank of screens. When you see the number of fuck ups VAR makes it gets a bit depressing, to be honest.
It was constant fuck ups from all angles. It's starting to affect my enjoyment of the game.
That Watford non penalty was just the over ripe cherry on top of a shit cake that yesterdays decisions became. Wolves and villa fans must want to headbutt a VAR monitor. We have yet another blatant pen not given.
This season's champions will be decided on shit like this, not on quality of play. That's just not a league championship anymore, it's basically a sporting lottery!!!

 

[flook]

What’s ‘it’ though? VAR isn’t a sentient being. It’s just a series of cameras which some bloke reviews. ‘It’ doesn’t make any decisions or dare not to overrule anybody.

Blaming ‘it’ completely let’s the people off the hook which are in charge of the shit show. A human being in charge of the PL referees has decided that this is how it should be used. That guy is clearly an utter moron and has no idea what he’s doing. Every single issue we’re seeing with VAR has been caused by poor decision making from these PL law makers .

If there’s a positive, it’s that it’s actually all fixable with a bit of common sense and decency.

Spot on, VAR brings one benefit and that is it highlights even more how corrupt/incompetent (delete as appropriate) the games "top" officials are and surely at some point this is going to come to a head

 

[Paladin]

If that challenge on De Bryune was on Mane VAR would have awarded a penalty as sure as eggs are eggs.

If one subscribes to the theory that Liverpool are favoured for the league this season, or that the authorities do not want City to win a third consecutive title, then this becomes blatantly obvious.

We have heard FA or PL executives talk of having a competitive league, and the success of certain teams is important to achieve this. We have heard them say they want new winners of the PL every few seasons. We have seen certain teams favoured by being awarded an inordinate number of penalties in relation to their attacking play. We have seen VAR consistently applied incorrectly, where it refuses to overturn an on field refereeing decision. We know referees have been provided with the means to review their own decisions, but not once so far have they availed themselves of that opportunity. And we know that PIGMOL (presumably with the authority of the PL, who are their main employer) gave set this "high bar" for overturning decisions.

Well, with all this in mind, we have the perfect mechanism for tipping the scales in favour of a chosen team. All Liverpool penalty claims no matter how soft or legitimate, are given immediately. Upon review, even the slightest contact is deemed a foul so the decision stands under the "high bar" interpretation. For all other teams, those penalties are not given and when reviewed, the soft contact is not deemed to be strong enough to be considered a clear and obvious error, so the non-penalty decision is ratified.

For marginal offside calls, blow up immediately the flag is raised and prevent a goal being scored, preventing the chance of a VAR review. But for the favoured team, let play continue, giving the chance of a goal being scored before a review adjudicates on it.

And in some cases, just change the interpretation to suit the favoured team. IFAB has stated that if the ball touches any part of the hand or arm of an attacking player in the lead up to a goal, then the goal is disallowed. Yet we have seen two occasions where this has been ignored by the VAR.

It is becoming obvious that VAR is being used as a vehicle for fixing the eventual outcome of the league.

 

[kippaxwarrior]

For me the biggest problem with VAR is that it's being looked at by other refs. Yesterday in our match it was Michael Oliver and I think they are at the moment genuinely scared of overturning a decision of a fellow work mate. Now it the same in cricket however the 3rd umpire tells the on field umpire what the mistake was and why is being overturned and the crowd and audience can clearly hear it as well. No confusion.

So for me for the time being have VAR done by an independent football committee (not refs) so no impartiality until the refs are re-trained to do that and also let the audience and crowd know what is actually happening

 

[DT King of all Geordies]

I watched Ireland being battered by the All Blacks with a Welsh ref earlier in the day and although I don’t know all the technical rules, I could hear the ref explain every decision to the opposing players telling them why each decision was made. I could hear the ref ask the TMO exactly what he wants him to verify before allowing or disallowing a try. We could hear the TMO reply back and see what exactly they were looking at.

This could could work. The problem is it is being used to further corruption not to further the sport.

I saw the England game and in the last few mins the Aussies scored a break away try. The ref asked the TMO to check a forward pass or passes the TMO said he'd had a look and said both were fine. They had a look on the screen and the ref said that the second one was clearly forward so the Ref said no try. I don't know why the TMO thought it was not forward but it was so he has made a mistake there. As the ref was not sure then he got the chance to have another look and make the correct decision. He wasn't bound by a previous decision so was able to make his mind up. I know that Rugby VAR is not perfect but I think there have been more controversial decisions in one afternoon of football than in the whole of the Rugby World Cup.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

I agree its not good for the game and I can concede it does nothing to promote the integrity of the competition. The only thing I would say, and from listening to the BT goals how today, its being poorly implemented all over the show.

I will need some convincing that the variation is down to 'poor implementation', Frank. These are supposed to be experienced referees who should be able to recite the laws of the game blindfolded, although I think some of them enter the field of play with the blindfold still in place, and how two of these jokers can suggest for one bloody minute that the foul on KdB did not meet every single criterion the LotG require for the award of a penalty just beggars belief. Similarly for the DirtyAli handball - the ball clearly hits the badge on his arm - and for the foul on Delufeou. Three examples where VAR should provide a definitive statement that matches WTF we have all seen, and fudges it. It was interesting to hear Lineker mention that in all the 90 games played this season VAR has not overturned one single decision!

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

For me the biggest problem with VAR is that it's being looked at by other refs. Yesterday in our match it was Michael Oliver and I think they are at the moment genuinely scared of overturning a decision of a fellow work mate. Now it the same in cricket however the 3rd umpire tells the on field umpire what the mistake was and why is being overturned and the crowd and audience can clearly hear it as well. No confusion.

So for me for the time being have VAR done by an independent football committee (not refs) so no impartiality until the refs are re-trained to do that and also let the audience and crowd know what is actually happening

I truly believe, bearing in mind the shambles that VAR has become, that the governing bodies and arbitrators of the sport have used VAR the way they intended it to be used. The fact that Old Mother Riley comes out and lists the errors that fans clocked as they happened via TV replays just lets the cat out of the bag. VAR was supposed to eliminate those errors but all it does is compound them.

 

[blueinsa]

Still gobsmacked after yesterdays VAR abominations across the games.

At least we have now got passed the stage of posters defending it and saying they will only go against it if they see the same incidents given or not given whilst certain teams get them because we well and truly have.

You knew we got shafted pre VAR but to see us getting shafted still, on replay, for 2 mins is just rubbing salt into the wound and spare a thought for teams that will be battling relegation when they are being robbed of points to help a media darling out like yesterday.

Fucking disgrace, all down to money.

 

[Hart of the Matter]

I have binned watching live matches. Enough is enough. Yesterday i didn't watch the match. The first time in forever i have deliberately not watched City live. Football was my release. When we scored i went ape. My only moments of total abandon in my ordinary life. At the Etihad in May 2012 I literally lost my shit at 93:20.
The most amazing, emotional experience of my long life. Now, the thrill has gone. Stolen from me by technocrats and nerds. Pedantic tossers and bent referees. I will watch the match in retrospect. Passionless and knowing the score and any potential flash points. My TV can rest easy in the knowledge that my fever has been been quashed, my language neutured and behaviour capped. What a grey world it has become.