Another new Brexit thread

[Bluemanc100]

Labour....when it comes to benefits and the NHS.

Beyond that sadly they are an absolute disaster and would be calamity in office.

so there are no winners in all this... only losers

 

[purplenose]

so there are no winners in all this... only losers

In Brexit or our domestic forthcoming election?

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

The lols keep on coming. Let’s hope the EU stick to not opening the WA over the next three months as God knows what Johnson will give away. The Channel Islands and Cornwall probably.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/uk-gives-up-7bn-windfall-from-european-investment-bank-tq0qskgfc

Of course Brexiteers knew exactly what they voted for, so will presumably approve of Johnson “spaffing” yet more of our money up the wall..

And it's yet another example of precisely why a rushed Deal approval timetable must not be permitted - Johnson hoping people won't notice important stuff until too late.

 

[Bluemanc100]

In Brexit or our domestic forthcoming election?

Both I'd say

 

[west didsblue]

I can see his point regarding choosing between a hard Brexit and remain. I am far from convinced that half measures or even compromise is always a good path and this is one of them. I am a borderline leaver but also think we should either leave 100% or remain 100%. I am just not convinced by complicated half measures in truth are neither truly what either side of the argument voted for or wanted.

There really is no such thing as Leave 100%. Whatever version of Leave we end up with, we will need to have agreements in place to cover many things that we currently take for granted. There will undoubtedly be areas where we will need to comply with European law - there's no getting away from it. A clean Brexit is a wet dream of the none too bright Faragists, although I doubt even the frog faced loon himself believes there's such a thing.

 

[purplenose]

There really is no such thing as Leave 100%. Whatever version of Leave we end up with, we will need to have agreements in place to cover many things that we currently take for granted. There will undoubtedly be areas where we will need to comply with European law - there's no getting away from it. A clean Brexit is a wet dream of the none too bright Faragists, although I doubt even the frog faced loon himself believes there's such a thing.

By the same score there is an alternative to being entwined in a doomed union or at least doomed unless it opens its eyes and changes direction and quite soon. There is no reason that we cannot have the same kind of relationship we have with other non EU nations. Regardless of whether that would make us better of worse off or all back using Izal bog paper is open to debate. To suggest that we cannot choose to not be part of the EU is wrong.

Oh by they way I would sooner remain than leave under a Boris lead Conservative government and should there end up being another vote on that matter. Were the choice Remain or leave under a Boris lead government I would be sorely tempted to vote to remain. Though I believe in the long term that would be the wrong option.

 

[mcfc1632]

I'm not too clear on why the Lib Dems are suggesting December 9th not 12th as suggested by the Tories. And why the Tories and Labour regard that as a "stunt"?

I must be missing something. Please can anyone explain?

I was thinking that it could be as crass as confusing older folk who are used to voting on a Thursday - but heard someone suggesting that it could be related to the fact that students will finish up at university the previous Friday and this could ensure that they are around to vote before heading off.

It will be probably be dressed up as being to do with the 31/10 deadline.

 

[mcfc1632]

Fuck - that must have hurt

 

[meltonblue]

I was thinking that it could be as crass as confusing order folk who are used to voting on a Thursday - but heard someone suggesting that it could be related to the fact that students will finish up at university the previous Friday and this could ensure that they are around to vote before heading off.

It will be probably be dressed up as being to do with the 31/10 deadline.

It’s to make sure the WAB isn’t pushed through before an election. The conservatives ideal scenario is get the WA through and then straight into an election.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

I was thinking that it could be as crass as confusing order folk who are used to voting on a Thursday - but heard someone suggesting that it could be related to the fact that students will finish up at university the previous Friday and this could ensure that they are around to vote before heading off.

It will be probably be dressed up as being to do with the 31/10 deadline.

what the politicians don’t realise is that only Cambridge and Oxford finish that early.
Most universities do not end until December 16th...

 

[Chippy_boy]

I can see his point regarding choosing between a hard Brexit and remain. I am far from convinced that half measures or even compromise is always a good path and this is one of them. I am a borderline leaver but also think we should either leave 100% or remain 100%. I am just not convinced by complicated half measures in truth are neither truly what either side of the argument voted for or wanted.

I think that's a perfectly valid opinion. But equally I think there's lots of people who would not agree with that, and I think therefore Blair is wrong to rule out a half-way house option. Especially since that may very well be the best overall compromise position which keeps the highest number of people, moderately happy. Or at least something they can tolerate.

 

[Blue Hefner]

 

[purplenose]

I think that's a perfectly valid opinion. But equally I think there's lots of people who would not agree with that, and I think therefore Blair is wrong to rule out a half-way house option. Especially since that may very well be the best overall compromise position which keeps the highest number of people, moderately happy. Or at least something they can tolerate.

In the real world in this instance you and I both know it is far more likely to give both sides all the more reason to kick off, the problem being regardless of what transpires there are some tricky political times ahead across Europe. Things are not going to go so well and there will be ample excuse to blame one side or the other. Much in the same way the Tories tried to blame Labour for the crash when infact it was a worldwide event way beyond the control of the Labour.

 

[BobKowalski]

Channel 4 Dispatches to run ‘Trump’s Plan for the NHS’ tonight at 8pm. Long story short a series of meetings between U.K. officials re access to the NHS and specifically the roll the NHS plays in keeping drug prices low which has been a long standing irritant to US Drug companies and will be a US demand in any future UK/US trade deal.

 

[Bluemanc100]

Channel 4 Dispatches to run ‘Trump’s Plan for the NHS’ tonight at 8pm. Long story short a series of meetings between U.K. officials re access to the NHS and specifically the roll the NHS plays in keeping drug prices low which has been a long standing irritant to US Drug companies and will be a US demand in any future UK/US trade deal.

That's a bloody joke, the drug companies need to be kept under control. Clearly we need their expertise but they can't simply be allowed to make the prices up as they go along

Off topic but the suggestion from JC that he will set up a state pharmaceutical company is preposterous so the existing companies need to be managed firmly

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Thanks ..... when we could no longer get into the car ... because she was so ill ...we had to use taxis to get to and from the hospital for treatment ... taxis that would take a wheelchair ... £20+ each way


They wouldn't give us mobility / travel vouchers .........


Because we had a car


It came out of my (somewhat generous they said ) £63.50 a week carers allowance

Well you certainly have my best hopes and wishes in getting what your wife needs and deserves.

 

[Chippy_boy]

By the same score there is an alternative to being entwined in a doomed union or at least doomed unless it opens its eyes and changes direction and quite soon. There is no reason that we cannot have the same kind of relationship we have with other non EU nations. Regardless of whether that would make us better of worse off or all back using Izal bog paper is open to debate. To suggest that we cannot choose to not be part of the EU is wrong.

Oh by they way I would sooner remain than leave under a Boris lead Conservative government and should there end up being another vote on that matter. Were the choice Remain or leave under a Boris lead government I would be sorely tempted to vote to remain. Though I believe in the long term that would be the wrong option.

I think your view portrays your political leanings ;-)

As a sweeping generalisation, Labour supporters who place higher value on social welfare, employment rights, consumer rights, protections against cheap labour and cheap imports, tend to favour EU membership. Because a large bloc like the EU is the best place to enshrine such policies and rights.

And in contrast, Tories who are more free market-oriented, who want light-touch regulation, low tax, small government and labour and market flexibility, do not want to have rules and administrative burdens and costs impose by a more left-leaning EU.

This is why, by and large, I think it is paradoxical for Labour supporters to be Leave voters. And why for a long time, I was a rather unusual right wing Tory, being an ardent Remain supporter!

But if your outlook is as I describe (Labour outlook), then there is absolutely zero doubt in my mind that your best bet, is for the UK to stay in the EU. And here's the rub: If we are to leave the EU, then the downsides in terms of loss of trade and other benefits, can ONLY be offset if the UK makes a real go of it as a vibrant, dynamic and competitive independent trading nation. Singapore on Thames if you like. And Corbyn's policies are 100% incompatible with that. He espouses policies which are the very opposite of what would be needed to make a hard Brexit a success. And to a lesser extent, to make any Brexit a success. It's absolutely no use, protecting the rights of workers for the jobs they no longer have because you drove their employer away.

 

[Vic]

I can see his point regarding choosing between a hard Brexit and remain. I am far from convinced that half measures or even compromise is always a good path and this is one of them. I am a borderline leaver but also think we should either leave 100% or remain 100%. I am just not convinced by complicated half measures in truth are neither truly what either side of the argument voted for or wanted.

100% leave is not on - not if you want planes to fly and umpteen other reciprocal "deals".

 

[Vic]

That's a bloody joke, the drug companies need to be kept under control. Clearly we need their expertise but they can't simply be allowed to make the prices up as they go along

Off topic but the suggestion from JC that he will set up a state pharmaceutical company is preposterous so the existing companies need to be managed firmly

The trouble with that proposal is that the state company would train pharmacists who then go into private practice (like nurses and doctors- but we benefit from overseas medics coming in).

 

[Bluemanc100]

The trouble with that proposal is that the state company would train pharmacists who then go into private practice (like nurses and doctors- but we benefit from overseas medics coming in).

The state company idea is preposterous for me. How can a state sponsored company possibly compete with the key-players in terms of salaries, talent acquisition and most important, historical experience (non-embargoed information or details not covered under NDAs)?

I just don't see it as a credible suggestion and not because JC said it, because it's pie in the sky