The Labour Party

Rascal said:
it might be me telling you that the Tory party needs to move leftwards away from its populist neo-liberal stance to a more traditional one nation stance.

I doubt I will though, because what happens in the Tory party is not my business, I am not a member.
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Well bloody hell you seem to spend a lot of time explaining to us Tories the ins and outs and whatever wrongs you can dream up about the party in which you have no business.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Well bloody hell you seem to spend a lot of time explaining to us Tories the ins and outs and whatever wrongs you can dream up about the party in which you have no business.
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I explained why I don't think the Tory party is Conservative anymore, I don't tell you who should lead it or what policies you should have because that is not my business.

I do love slagging off the Tory party though :))
 
remember arthur mann said:
A nice little earner for these clowns !
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From a purely democratic viewpoint, I find these sort of statements disturbing. The demonization of the political class serves only to increase the power of the media oligarchs. This whole fed up with politicians narrative shows a real ignorance of how our democracy works and if we lose faith in our politicians the only route is authoritarianism and currently its the authoritarian populist right that are in the ascendancy. Umberto Eco in his essay on Ur-Fascism delivered these following points. Point 2 is of particular interest over this notion. The age of irrationality. Read it all and see for yourselves the dangers we face in continually debasing our politicians, the end results are not pretty and ask yourself who will benefit from this continual discourse. I cant help but feel we as a nation are being prepared for this outcome. That is the way continually sowing the seeds of dissatisfaction works. From those little acorns grows a forest and before we know we know it we cannot see the wood for the trees.

  1. The cult of tradition. “One has only to look at the syllabus of every fascist movement to find the major traditionalist thinkers. The Nazi gnosis was nourished by traditionalist, syncretistic, occult elements.”
  2. The rejection of modernism. “The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.”
  3. The cult of action for action’s sake. “Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.”
  4. Disagreement is treason. “The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge.”
  5. Fear of difference. “The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.”
  6. Appeal to social frustration. “One of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups.”
  7. The obsession with a plot. “The followers must feel besieged. The easiest way to solve the plot is the appeal to xenophobia.”
  8. The enemy is both strong and weak. “By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.”
  9. Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. “For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle.”
  10. Contempt for the weak. “Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology.”
  11. Everybody is educated to become a hero. “In Ur-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death.”
  12. Machismo and weaponry. “Machismo implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality.”
  13. Selective populism. “There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People.”
  14. Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. “All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning.
 
joe123 said:
i like the campaign video.

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Just goes to show how much of a disaster he's been in opposition.

All he's managed to do is basically protect state handouts to the wealthiest pensioners whether that's by triple locking their pensions, covering all of their social care costs, or allowing millionaires to keep their winter fuel allowance. Not to mention virtually coronating Boris Johnson by blocking a far better deal by the previous PM.

This man is a gift to the right wing of the Conservative Party and the sooner he goes, the better.
 
blueinsa said:
The cult of Corbyn who lost the election.

The cult of Corbyn who the country rejects.

Nice music though that will be down with the kids they are praying will vote for him.
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Think that's the point tho, this is designed with a specific audience in mind and will do well amongst them. How they'll appeal to the older demographic tho, I'm not sure.
 
Direct challenge to the party's fundamental policy direction in the Guardian today
For real change, Labour should ditch its top-down thinking
John_Harris_Next_Gen.png

John Harris
Genuinely modern socialism would revolutionise Westminster and Whitehall and disperse power to local government
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...our-real-change-top-down-thinking-westminster
 
Chippy_boy said:
@Rascal I have posted on here a couple of times at least about how the country has changed and how the old Labour doctrines of the 1970's no longer resonate with people. That old mass employers of unskilled labour; ship building, mining, steel making have gone. Old industries where workers were under-paid, exploited, subjected to harsh or even dangerous working conditions and there was an "Us vs Them" relationship between "workers" and "management" are gone, or at least now rare. Powerful unions and a party closely aligned to those unions made sense back then, but not now.

Nowadays car manufacturing - for example - is now highly skilled. Employees (or a bit naff, admittedly, "partners" or "colleagues") work collaboratively with the management teams. The environment they work in is clean and safe and they are paid well. They get 4 or 5 weeks holidays and paternity leave and a pension and often private health.

What on EARTH does someone working in a place like that, see in someone like McDonnell or McCluskey, the latter who is barely out of donkey jackets? Old Labour is about old values and old voters who don't exist much any more.

We've had this discussion, and you've even agreed with me about the changes. And yet you still cling to this 1970's vision of how Labour should be. It's bizarre. And until it changes back to the modern and moderate progressive party which Blair had transformed it into, it's doomed to years of opposition and fuck all else.

I am glad I am not a Labour supporter, because it must be heartbreaking to see the damage Corbyn and McDonnell are doing. They are grinding the party into the dirt.
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Surely if they want to return to the good old days of the seventies they should be proposing a three day working week and not a four day one.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
Dianne Abbott has serious competition in the Labour numbers game, this one makes her look like Stephen Hawking...

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4,134 estimated number of people sleeping rough in 2016 on a single night in Autumn across England (source: Crisis), according to this Labour politician 3,000 of them in Brent!!
How can anyone contemplate voting for a party whose public representatives have little, or no, grasp of numbers?
 
plongo said:
4,134 estimated number of people sleeping rough in 2016 on a single night in Autumn across England (source: Crisis), according to this Labour politician 3,000 of them in Brent!!
How can anyone contemplate voting for a party whose public representatives have little, or no, grasp of numbers?
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Not only that, to ensure these 3000 homeless get somewhere to live, she's going to build 8000 houses.
So that's two gaffs each, possibly three if they draw lots for the other 2000.
Vote Labour and get not only a brand spanking new pad, you get another down the road, very handy if you've had
a row with the wife.
This is the woman you see next to Steptoe in the commons.
 
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