General Election - December 12th, 2019

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

Well it’s already started in the U.K. then, Singapore is on the Thames isn’t it?

If you really do want to be Singapore on Thames then investment in tech infrastructure is needed mate, there's no getting around it and penny pinching will hurt long term

 

[Chippy_boy]

If we apply the No Deal principle of negotiation (a credible threat to get a good deal) perhaps threatening nationalisation will make private companies up their game (especially those enjoying monopoly profits).

Fair point. It could be used as a stick for them to "get on with it".

Of course BT don't in fact have a monopoly and they also have a regulator to keep on top of things (though fat lose of use those are). But Virgin Media have over the last month been seeking my approval to lay cable down my drive to reach my house and the neighbours (we share a drive). Whether they will still do so, I am not sure now.

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

Fair point. It could be used as a stick for them to "get on with it".

Of course BT don't in fact have a monopoly and they also have a regulator to keep on top of things (though fat lose of use those are). But Virgin Media have over the last month been seeking my approval to lay cable down my drive to reach my house and the neighbours (we share a drive). Whether they will still do so, I am not sure now.

BT own openreach though which makes up most of the countries internet infrastructure.
For example sky's internet service runs off the openreach network service

 

[blueinsa]

Think one thing we can all agree on is the fact that Openreach who have a monopoly on installing and maintaining the network as things stand are an utter disgrace and their service levels are appalling.

That is what British Broadband would be.

Entirely the wrong approach to delivering a huge project like this.

 

[west didsblue]

We got there.

It would have to be because a project of this size and nature will cost so much money and its an impossibility to make it free, if for no other reason it puts business offering paid services to the wall and would fall foul of EU anti competition law.

That of course wouldn't be an issue for a Corbyn who has campaigned all his life to be out of the EU and his government.

Funny that!

You're mistaking me for someone who would give Corbyn the steam off my piss.

I can however see the logic in providing free access to high speed broadband, but you would have to pay to actually use that access at anything above very basic capability.

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

Entirely the wrong approach to delivering a huge project like this.

What would your suggestion be?

 

[Fame Monster]

I think there's good arguments for and against but providing it for free (if that's what's been suggested?) seems bonkers.

Also, is the plan to nationalise the entire global operation of BT or just the UK based part? Because there's a million and one reasons why the 180 other governments that the BT group operate in (many of whom give and have given money to BT) won't allow that.

If it's just the UK part of BT then the profits they make over here (after tax) are small i.e. hundreds of millions in comparison to the hundreds of billions we spend each year. That said, it's a ballache changing supplier every year and getting ripped off if you don't and going through routers like hot dinners and obviously the problems are even worse in rural locations so there are good reasons to do it too.

I'm open to the idea of part-nationalisation but it needs to be done sensibly and reasonably, and not just for ideological reasons which - no doubt with Corbyn and McDonell - it will be. Also, it's only fair that the people and businesses who use BT services the most cover its operating costs so it doesn't just fall on the average taxpayer by being given out for free.

 

[mat]

Crossing over two threads here.

Why do I get a feeling should the tories get a Majority we will be out on a very hard, unprepared Brexit on 1st Jan?

Dont some Tory MPs and doners have to start declaring tax havens to the EU from that day?

 

[blueinsa]

What would your suggestion be?

For a start i wouldn't have the governments prints or the unions paws anywhere near it.

It would be led by the best management team money can buy and not some civil servants and a minister who hasn't got a fucking clue.

As a consumer and that's all I am with experience of trying to deal with Openreach i just know they are not the answer as things stand. that cant turn up for an appointment, never mind meet deadlines for a project of this size so its over to the best industry experts to present a plan but for me, competition is needed in this sector, someone to make Openreach up their game and to offer a different solution.

It isn't easy, its huge and its why i said earlier in the day if it costs £20 Billion, double it, double it again and then add a few noughts and 2030 might as well be 2040.

It an undeliverable promise as things stand unfortunately.

 

[George Hannah]

For a start i wouldn't have the governments prints or the unions paws anywhere near it.

It would be led by the best management team money can buy and not some civil servants and a minister who hasn't got a fucking clue.

As a consumer and that's all I am with experience of trying to deal with Openreach i just know they are not the answer as things stand. that cant turn up for an appointment, never mind meet deadlines for a project of this size so its over to the best industry experts to present a plan but for me, competition is needed in this sector, someone to make Openreach up their game and to offer a different solution.

It isn't easy, its huge and its why i said earlier in the day if it costs £20 Billion, double it, double it again and then add a few noughts and 2030 might as well be 2040.

It an undeliverable promise as things stand unfortunately.

Can I give this a plug again - a cogent analysis of the problem by Paul Johnson of OFS and another by Polly McKenzie following an interview with RBL 3 minutes in and 43 mins in approx https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000b8t1/politics-live-15112019

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

For a start i wouldn't have the governments prints or the unions paws anywhere near it.

It would be led by the best management team money can buy and not some civil servants and a minister who hasn't got a fucking clue.

As a consumer and that's all I am with experience of trying to deal with Openreach i just know they are not the answer as things stand. that cant turn up for an appointment, never mind meet deadlines for a project of this size so its over to the best industry experts to present a plan but for me, competition is needed in this sector, someone to make Openreach up their game and to offer a different solution.

It isn't easy, its huge and its why i said earlier in the day if it costs £20 Billion, double it, double it again and then add a few noughts and 2030 might as well be 2040.

It an undeliverable promise as things stand unfortunately.

I think that is what openreach are supposed to do which is why they were set up by ofcom. Essentially you'd propose more investment and better management. Not a bad idea but I think they'd need to be kept on a tight leash as we both know their record isn't great

 

[blueinsa]

I think that is what openreach are supposed to do which is why they were set up by ofcom. Essentially you'd propose more investment and better management. Not a bad idea but I think they'd need to be kept on a tight leash as we both know their record isn't great

Governments do not have a track record of delivering huge infrastructure projects either within budget or on time.

British Broadband as @George Hannah has just posted via his link becomes a liability competing against the health service, welfare state etc every year for money and it will simply not be there to provide a free service to everyone.

Its bonkers.

Give those on welfare and job seekers a broadband credit if you want via their benefits for a connection to send email, job hunt online etc by all means and continue to press ahead with the roll out of fibre as we are doing, even if its slow but this promise today is not deliverable.

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

Governments do not have a track record of delivering huge infrastructure projects either within budget or on time.

British Broadband as @George Hannah has just posted via his link becomes a liability competing against the health service, welfare state etc every year for money and it will simply not be there to provide a free service to everyone.

Its bonkers.

Give those on welfare and job seekers a broadband credit if you want via their benefits for a connection to send email, job hunt online etc by all means and continue to press ahead with the roll out of fibre as we are doing, even if its slow but this promise today is not deliverable.

Which is why I agree it shouldn't be free if nationalised, charge enough money to break even and allow those who are unemployed or below a certain earnings bracket free access.

I believe there is a healthy meeting point between the two sides.

 

[mat]

All these progressive policies need at least two terms to come to fruition.

Do the people have enough faith to enable that or just follow blindly what the vested interests tell them to?

 

[blueinsa]

Why do I get a feeling should the tories get a Majority we will be out on a very hard, unprepared Brexit on 1st Jan?

Probably because the path remain MP's have taken in Parliament was always going to lead to this point that's why.

It was both foretold and warned about.

 

[blueinsa]

All these progressive policies need at least two terms to come to fruition.

Do the people have enough faith to enable that or just follow blindly what the vested interests tell them to?

To be fair its took a couple of hours to put more holes in this policy than a colander has so a couple of terms wont be needed.

 

[mat]

Swinson coming out with she'll demand another GE if theres no clear winner playing straight into her darling Bojo's hands.

 

[Cheesy]

Taking over Openreach would properly fuck over it's shareholders. They wouldn't get anywhere near the true value of their shares in compensation.

Now for some on here that probably sounds like a great idea as to them all shareholders are evil money grabbing bastards.

Of course, some of the shareholders will be pension funds so that means many people's pensions will also suffer if this crackpot idea comes to fruition.

 

[Chippy_boy]

BT own openreach though which makes up most of the countries internet infrastructure.
For example sky's internet service runs off the openreach network service

Of course. There's only a few fully independent ISPs and BT is the biggest player of course but there are others such as Talk Talk, Kcomm, Virgin etc. And business-oriented network providers such as Colt.

 

[Chippy_boy]

For a start i wouldn't have the governments prints or the unions paws anywhere near it.

It would be led by the best management team money can buy and not some civil servants and a minister who hasn't got a fucking clue.

As a consumer and that's all I am with experience of trying to deal with Openreach i just know they are not the answer as things stand. that cant turn up for an appointment, never mind meet deadlines for a project of this size so its over to the best industry experts to present a plan but for me, competition is needed in this sector, someone to make Openreach up their game and to offer a different solution.

It isn't easy, its huge and its why i said earlier in the day if it costs £20 Billion, double it, double it again and then add a few noughts and 2030 might as well be 2040.

It an undeliverable promise as things stand unfortunately.

I'm with BT mate and yes they are not perfect but I believe the competition are no better. I am quite undecided about whether to switch to Virgin when it's wired up to my street next year, having heard dire reports about them! Still those plans may yet be scuppered by catweasel, we shall see.