Another new Brexit thread

[mancity2012_eamo]

Will that happen? Offering what?, this is about beliiefs that are entrenched and about as far apart as you can get.

I think only time can bring people together and only if Brexit goes well and everyone benefits. The other factor could be the failure of the EU, which I can see happening, and was my own reason for voting to leave.

I'm just killing time here TBH and running out of slogans.
Time will tell, is as good as you're going to get I think.
Hope you're wrong about the EU, because that's us fucked if you're right.

 

[purplenose]

I'm just killing time here TBH and running out of slogans.
Time will tell, is as good as you're going to get I think.
Hope you're wrong about the EU, because that's us fucked if you're right.

I hope i am wrong too because i agree it would have a huge effect on us.

My view is the EU needs to change direction somewhat in order to survive. How our leaving will influence its future is going to be interesting to say the least.

I think you are right about time, thats the key factor and there is no doubt its a big gamble. Further how successful or catastrophic that decision will turn out to be is to a degree out of our hands.

All in all given all the factors i find it quite astonishing how entrenched one way or the other people are and those like myself who voted either way but with much trepidation seem to be a minority often roundly abused by both factuons.

 

[blueinsa]

All in all given all the factors i find it quite astonishing how entrenched one way or the other people are and those like myself who voted either way but with much trepidation seem to be a minority often roundly abused by both factuons.

Many and i include myself in this where and always will be attached to the notion that our democracy relies on the consent of the losing side and that we respect results fully.

Once we have left then by all means people should and no doubt will campaign to rejoin but what we have just had for the last 3 years is an attempt to subvert our democracy imo and it was never going to work.

 

[purplenose]

Many and i include myself in this where and always will be attached to the notion that our democracy relies on the consent of the losing side and that we respect results fully.

Once we have left then by all means people should and no doubt will campaign to rejoin but what we have just had for the last 3 years is an attempt to subvert our democracy imo and it was never going to work.

It should have been acted upon within the week of the vote. Alas we only got the vote as a blatant vote winner for the Tories who in their arrogance thought the peasants would vote as they were instructed. The result was never factored in to their plans or indeed those of the EU hierarchy.

Given this you will have to forgive my less than optimistic view regarding the likely success of Brexit under that same party.

 

[mcfc1632]

and a very merry Christmas to you

​

I was going to reply to this post in the Starmer thread, but realised that it was better suited here.

There has been a lot of what are, IMO, woefully ill-informed and/or disingenuous posts relating to the EU reopening the WA and removing the unfettered backstop(UB).

Some posters have always just been unable to grasp what scope the UB gave to the EU to utterly control the next stages of negotiations and commit the UK to conforming to their impositions/regulations. Some posters ignorant of the true risks but not afraid/embarrassed to demonstrate that ignorance in repeated posts about how it was just a case of the EU moving back to a previously offered position and of no consequence to them

Other posters I believe do understand the scope of control that the UB would have given to the EU with regard to control over the UK for many years to come - but are just so committed to being against Brexit by ideology and disingenuous by nature that they seek to deceive others

The article that you link should be read with the UB in mind and then consideration should be given to how the UB essentially secured for the EU all their ambitions for control over the UK at a stroke. If people do that they will realise that the removal of the UB was a significant loss to the EU - as essentially it would have handed to the EU all their aims set out in the article that you link, without having to concede to the UK anything.

Backed by a significant majority and no longer continually undermined by the EU's sycophants at Westminster, will provide the opportunity for the UK government - if led by professionals rather than incompetents like Robbins - to secure a future for the UK that will be far healthier than had we Remained in the EU. Remaining in the EU would have seen the UK suffer the drip by drip erosion that, as reflected in the EU's strategies, was always going to happen to the UK within the EU - but that fate was far better than that of leaving the EU whilst handing then comprehensive control over the UK through the UB.

 

[George Hannah]

I was going to reply to this post in the Starmer thread, but realised that it was better suited here.

There has been a lot of what are, IMO, woefully ill-informed and/or disingenuous posts relating to the EU reopening the WA and removing the unfettered backstop(UB).

Some posters have always just been unable to grasp what scope the UB gave to the EU to utterly control the next stages of negotiations and commit the UK to conforming to their impositions/regulations. Some posters ignorant of the true risks but not afraid/embarrassed to demonstrate that ignorance in repeated posts about how it was just a case of the EU moving back to a previously offered position and of no consequence to them

Other posters I believe do understand the scope of control that the UB would have given to the EU with regard to control over the UK for many years to come - but are just so committed to being against Brexit by ideology and disingenuous by mature that they seek to deceive others

The article that you link should be read with the UB in mind and then consideration should be given to how the UB essentially secured for the EU all their ambitions for control over the UK at a stroke. If people do that they will realise that the removal of the UB was a significant loss to the EU - as essentially it would have handed to the EU all their aims set out in the article that you link, without having to concede to the UK anything.

Backed by a significant majority and no longer continually undermined by the EU's sycophants at Westminster, will provide the opportunity for the UK government - if led by professionals rather than incompetents like Robbins - to secure a future for the UK that will be far healthier than had we Remained in the EU. Remaining in the EU would have seen the UK suffer the drip by drip erosion that, as reflected in the EU's strategies, was always going to happen to the UK within the EU - but that fate was far better than that of leaving the EU whilst handing then comprehensive control over the UK through the UB.

There are some significant and largely unavoidable adverse economic consequences to what will follow from any FTA but the huge plus is that we will be independent of an undemocratic political model whose only future is ever closer union. A price well worth paying.

 

[mcfc1632]

There are some significant and largely unavoidable adverse economic consequences to what will follow from any FTA but the huge plus is that we will be independent of an undemocratic political model whose only future is ever closer union. A price well worth paying.

And in years to come as the EU model start to fail - we will be grateful not to be shackled and able to run our own fiscal and economic policies

The inevitable failure of the EU model will have significant impact anyway - but we will be better able to recover than we would have been.

People bleat on about 'sunlit uplands' - the true benefit from Brexit will the far more important outcomes that allow us to secure the controls we will need

 

[BobKowalski]

There are some significant and largely unavoidable adverse economic consequences to what will follow from any FTA but the huge plus is that we will be independent of an undemocratic political model whose only future is ever closer union. A price well worth paying.

That is a fair comment. I expect it will resonate in Scotland too.

 

[BlueAnorak]

124 majority on the first reading of the WA bill.
358 (for) to 234 (against)

 

[Ardwick Green Blue]

No more number crunching before crucial Brexit votes but just huge majorities all the way.

 

[BobKowalski]

No more number crunching before crucial Brexit votes but just huge majorities all the way.

Yes. All very terribly dull now as Parliament returns to its role of rubber stamping. I enjoyed the lively debate and the Govt getting a bloody nose every now and then.

 

[yerwot?]

And in years to come as the EU model start to fail - we will be grateful not to be shackled and able to run our own fiscal and economic policies

The inevitable failure of the EU model will have significant impact anyway - but we will be better able to recover than we would have been.

People bleat on about 'sunlit uplands' - the true benefit from Brexit will the far more important outcomes that allow us to secure the controls we will need

10,000 posts just to say we won you lost, btw bleating about sunlit uplands is a brexit speciality( lie ) been so many no wonder it got lost in the torrent..

 

[BobKowalski]

With the looming prospect of an internal customs border and increased friction on trade between NI and GB latest figures show a further decline in sales from NI to GB and an increase in exports everywhere else. Exports now exceed GB sales - £11.2 billion vs £10.6 billion. Sign of a trend but it will still be a big hit on internal U.K. trade under the new protocols.

 

[Chris in London]

With the looming prospect of an internal customs border and increased friction on trade between NI and GB latest figures show a further decline in sales from NI to GB and an increase in exports everywhere else. Exports now exceed GB sales - £11.2 billion vs £10.6 billion. Sign of a trend but it will still be a big hit on internal U.K. trade under the new protocols.

Not sure about the significance of that. Figures for the period since Boris came up with the idea that we should have a border between NI and GB will be interesting but there could be all sorts of reasons for these figures.

 

[BobKowalski]

Not sure about the significance of that. Figures for the period since Boris came up with the idea that we should have a border between NI and GB will be interesting but there could be all sorts of reasons for these figures.

It shows a decline in trade between NI and GB last two years and an internal customs border would depress it further going forward. More of an indication of a trend that a customs border will potentially accelerate than anything else. NI is going be a flashpoint. For starters there will have to be new infrastructure at NI ports and terminals I would have thought and infrastructure tends to be a focal point for trouble as the Govts own internal document pointed out.

 

[Fame Monster]

Well the block Brexit strategy worked.

Well done Jeremy.

 

[Chris in London]

It shows a decline in trade between NI and GB last two years and an internal customs border would depress it further going forward. More of an indication of a trend that a customs border will potentially accelerate than anything else. NI is going be a flashpoint. For starters there will have to be new infrastructure at NI ports and terminals I would have thought and infrastructure tends to be a focal point for trouble as the Govts own internal document pointed out.

Agree with most of this, I just don’t see the recent downturn as significant in itself or specifically Brexit related. Completely agree however that whatever the reason for the downturn, the Brexit deal will make it worse.

I’m not so sure though that infrastructure will provide flash points. Infrastructure on the inner Irish border would have done without doubt, but I’m not so sure about ports and terminals.

 

[Ban-jani]

124 majority on the first reading of the WA bill.
358 (for) to 234 (against)

Is that every Tory vs every non-Tory?

 

[blueparrot]

Is that every Tory vs every non-Tory?

There were a handful of Labour mps voted for it, and some Labour abstainers too.

 

[Ban-jani]

There were a handful of Labour mps voted for it, and some Labour abstainers too.

The Tories have 365 seats though?

Am I being thick and some can’t vote?