Another new Brexit thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ric
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
blueparrot said:
I know why it's happening, I don't even mind if you think it's worth giving it up for whatever reason, but lets not pretend it's not a right we are losing.
Click to expand...

If you can afford to retire in a foreign country you can bud, what makes anyone think they can retire to a foreign country if you've worked in a shit week to week job all your life is beyond me. The people who are complaining about this are the ones that could probably afford it.

Your point about losing a right is correct though, but it's as moot a point as you have every right to be poor in the UK or be poor in France or Germany.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Restrictions doesn't mean you can be prevented from ever migrating to a European country, does it.

You're on about things being more difficult, ergo "impossible". I'm saying that's hyperbolic melodrama. If there restrictions on living in another country, it won't be the British Public restricting you, and as I say, no-one should have the right to tell someone else what their migration policy is.
Click to expand...

Restrictions cost time, money and effort. People and businesses don't necessarily have those 3 things.

By the way, no one is 'telling' other countries what their immigration policy should be - it has been agreed by all the countries and for all the faults of FoM on balance, these countries feel it is a good idea.

If something is currently easy and free-for-all, making it more difficult(not impossible but more difficult) can't be a good thing? I can currently breathe, if by the end of the day I find breathing more difficult, my circumstances have changed for the worse - which, people will argue with some merit, that the UKs population options have been changed for the worse. As have the countries where UK citizens may want to live, work or retire in
 
Blue Hefner said:
Restrictions cost time, money and effort. People and businesses don't necessarily have those 3 things.

By the way, no one is 'telling' other countries what their immigration policy should be - it has been agreed by all the countries and for all the faults of FoM on balance, these countries feel it is a good idea.

If something is currently easy and free-for-all, making it more difficult(not impossible but more difficult) can't be a good thing? I can currently breathe, if by the end of the day I find breathing more difficult, my circumstances have changed for the worse - which, people will argue with some merit, that the UKs population options have been changed for the worse. As have the countries where UK citizens may want to live, work or retire in
Click to expand...
Only between EU countries.

The same "right" doesn't apply to non-EU citizens, does it. Yet Europe has seen the largest influx of migration from these non-EU nations in the past decade, so it's entirely possible. The fact remains, you can still apply, and nothing can stop you from doing so.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
What changed your tune?
You were advocating for EFTA for months.
Click to expand...

I was but I was worried about no deal or a deal without a FTA. Of course there’s still a risk of that but I could only see EFTA being a compromise that would get through Parliament.

Obviously things have changed from there massively.

I just think it’s half in half out and we wouldn’t be truly independent, being a rule taker.

My preference is remain and always will be but if not remain, I’d prefer a FTA, rather than being a rule taker.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Only between EU countries.

The same "right" doesn't apply to non-EU citizens, does it. Yet Europe has seen the largest influx of migration from these non-EU nations in the past decade, so it's entirely possible. The fact remains, you can still apply, and nothing can stop you from doing so.
Click to expand...

I didn't say it was impossible, I said it would be more difficult.

On a wider point, I have first hand experience of very large organisations not getting involved the in the visa application process, it is their company policy not to sponsor or support visa applications - that is not a good thing for UK workers
 
Ban-jani said:
I was but I was worried about no deal or a deal without a FTA. Of course there’s still a risk of that but I could only see EFTA being a compromise that would get through Parliament.

Obviously things have changed from there massively.

I just think it’s half in half out and we wouldn’t be truly independent, being a rule taker.

My preference is remain and always will be but if not remain, I’d prefer a FTA, rather than being a rule taker.
Click to expand...
No EFTA member has to accept every one of the EU's "rules", only comply with their regulations on trade, which even Canada and Japan must do in order to trade with the EU. EEA, EFTA, full EU member; you're still a rule taker as the rules aren't made by "us" but the whole EU. We only have a say, and as has previously been discussed, our "say" was being ignored more and more.

You're on about EEA members, a different position to be in.
 
Last edited:
Blue Hefner said:
I didn't say it was impossible, I said it would be more difficult.

On a wider point, I have first hand experience of very large organisations not getting involved the in the visa application process, it is their company policy not to sponsor or support visa applications - that is not a good thing for UK workers
Click to expand...
And i'm saying that it's not impossible, like some are trying to make out.
Yet others have misinterpreted that to mean i'm saying it'll be "just as easy".

No-one can stop anyone under UN law from applying for citizenship. If living in the EU is so great why aren't remainers making tens of millions of applications.

Because it's something they never realsitically considered and are using it as an emotive argument. And it doesn't wash with me. If they cared that much, they'd have applied and migrated long before now.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Only between EU countries.

The same "right" doesn't apply to non-EU citizens, does it. Yet Europe has seen the largest influx of migration from these non-EU nations in the past decade, so it's entirely possible. The fact remains, you can still apply, and nothing can stop you from doing so.
Click to expand...

And every country the EU has free trade deals with.

currently 32 out of 35 of the worlds "advanced" economies, thats 32 countries that right now we trade with friction less will be far harder to trade with.

granted if we do a deal with the EU then 27 of those instantly open up again.
 
grunge said:
And every country the EU has free trade deals with.

currently 32 out of 35 of the worlds "advanced" economies, thats 32 countries that right now we trade with friction less will be far harder to trade with.

granted if we do a deal with the EU then 27 of those instantly open up again.
Click to expand...
Which is the aim. I'm no advocate of a no deal exit either. Neither is Boris, the EU or most leavers/remainers.
 
All in all, I loved being in the EU, the fact that at the drop of a hat I could move anywhere in the EU to work and live, that is no longer the case. 10 years ago that wouldn't have been such a hit for me as I would have been prime age for emigrating. thats not the case now. anything over 40 and countries start to shut you out unless you happen to have close relatives to help you in or a ton of cash. Its not impossible, just a lot lot harder.

Even if the UK manages to make a major success of brexit ( I wont hold my breath ), I loved the fact we were part of something larger with the EU, I loved the fact I could move at the drop of a hat to anywhere in the EU. brexit has stolen that from me. and brexit has also destroyed the country I loved and at the same time has by and large removed my ability to leave it.

I was hoping that the fact the company I work for was looking at doing a merger with a company in Austria would keep those doors open, unfortunately the red tape that Brexit introduces has all but killed that merger.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Which is the aim. I'm no advocate of a no deal exit either. Neither is Boris, the EU or most leavers/remainers.
Click to expand...

I think You would be surprised, most brexiteers I know ( pretty much my entire family at this point ) seem to have gone into some insane "fuck the EU, we don't need a deal" mindset, its that whole "we won 2 world wars, we'll be fine" mentality.

One of them seems convinced we'll just do grey deals with all the companies and bypass trade deals entirely.
 
grunge said:
I think You would be surprised, most brexiteers I know ( pretty much my entire family at this point ) seem to have gone into some insane "fuck the EU, we don't need a deal" mindset, its that whole "we won 2 world wars, we'll be fine" mentality.
Click to expand...
That's most likely down to the actions of Parliament, the rhetoric of remainers ("leavers are racists, xenophobes, idiots, uneducated!") and the era of "nasty" politics, has pushed most people away from civil discourse and into entrenched positions.

It's funny how little we empathise with each other when one has been made out to be some sort of "enemy within" by the opposing side.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
You're not losing that right;

United Nations Declaration
(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each State.
(2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.
(3) Everyone shall be free to leave any country, including his own.
Click to expand...
No.1 is about your rights in your own country, not another country.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
That's most likely down to the actions of Parliament, the rhetoric of remainers ("leavers are racists, xenophobes, idiots, uneducated!") and the era of "nasty" politics, has pushed most people away from civil discourse and into entrenched positions.

It's funny how little we empathise with each other when one has been made out to be some sort of "enemy within" by the opposing side.
Click to expand...

Agreed, its been totally polarising. and I do personally blame the media a lot for this. when you have News as entertainment you see them chose the most polarising people for new clips, and when they show clips of brexit supporters it was clear that they had chosen the most offensive people they could find to do it. the proper knuckle dragger types as they know its going to get a reaction which they will then report as news in there "what are people saying" section of the news... which isn't news but helped create the swing we have been seeing where people are just getting further and further apart.

The main thing the liberal side needs to address is killing debates, everything seems to get shut down as offensive just because one person on social media got offended, Johnathan Pie covers my views on how the liberals have fucked things over on that front ( talking polarising political views rather than brexit here )

the way parliament has behaved has certainly exacerbated things. creating a them and us tribal mentality between the 2, which really pissed me off when lots of it was just politiking and attempted power grabs instead of trying to do what was best.

my Dad's a prime example of the poisonous way the media influences, mostly housebound ( for a good 15 years ), not on Social media and gets all pretty much all his info of the outside world from the likes of the Daily Mail and Sky news. he's always been Anti EU ( this isn't new in the slightest ) but in the last year or 2 he's take a major turn, especially the last 3 months, The fact the brexit party pulled his candidate in the last GE seems to have tipped him over the edge. He feels that his voice, and money ( he paid to join the party and paid to endorse the candidate ) has been stolen, the level of Anger he is showing at the moment is actually quite concerning to me to be honest.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
And i'm saying that it's not impossible, like some are trying to make out.
Yet others have misinterpreted that to mean i'm saying it'll be "just as easy".

No-one can stop anyone under UN law from applying for citizenship. If living in the EU is so great why aren't remainers making tens of millions of applications.

Because it's something they never realsitically considered and are using it as an emotive argument. And it doesn't wash with me. If they cared that much, they'd have applied and migrated long before now.
Click to expand...

That is a ridiculous thing to say. But the answer to your question is, for a variety of reasons
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
No-one can stop anyone under UN law from applying for citizenship. If living in the EU is so great why aren't remainers making tens of millions of applications.
Click to expand...

On this point, while anyone can apply for citizenship of a country, that country is of no obligation to take you. I've looked at emigrating ( or just working in ) to Canada a few times in the past and to get citizenship there is very tricky. in the US is almost impossible at the moment, US for example ( used to be) 20 years experience to make up for lack of Degree and thats just to get a work permit.

this gives a rough Idea if someone form outside the EU wanted to emigrate to Germany for example.
https://www.germany-visa.org/immigration-residence-permit/german-citizenship/

most EU countries are actually very difficult to get citizenship in. I think Italy is one of the easiest.

I know of a few companies in the EU zone though that have noted a major influx of UK nationals in the last couple of years trying to get in before brexit happens.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
No EFTA member has to accept every one of the EU's "rules", only comply with their regulations on trade, which even Canada and Japan must do in order to trade with the EU. EEA, EFTA, full EU member; you're still a rule taker as the rules aren't made by "us" but the whole EU. We only have a say, and as has previously been discussed, our "say" was being ignored more and more.

You're on about EEA members, a different position to be in.
Click to expand...

My point on EFTA is adherence to the Four Freedoms and all of the regulations that go with that.

I think it’s either remain or a FTA for me. I don’t want to see this country taking anything from any entity, without at least having a say or a chance to vote on it.

Regardless, EFTA is as dead as remain and we may as well move on.
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
LOL ....... The Fucking Irony ...I want out of the Eu but I also want citizenship and all its benefits whilst i live within the Eu

cake and eat it brigade.......
Click to expand...
Yeah i've said NOTHING like that, LOL! The absolute last thing I would ever want is "EU citizenship".

I dunno, you don't read your own links to articles, so I shouldn't be surprised you can't comprehend people's posts either.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top