Var debate 2019/20

[BlueHammer85]

Aubameyang red card by VAR

Robertson same tackle - Fuck all


Fun fact here. Same VAR ref for both games. Lawson.

same tackle really ?

robertson got the ball first and had about 0.0003 seconds to avoid contact.

abameyeng was no where near the ball and nearly broke the blokes ankle way after the ball was played.

they were completely different.

 

[BlueHammer85]

I am a Liverpool fan, so I am expecting to be called biased, but when I try to look at it as objectively as I can, I can't help but feel that the the focus is very much on the VAR decisions that have gone Liverpool's way, but there is no mention of the ones that went against us? This paints a picture that VAR is helping us massively, but the reality is that we've had our fair share of VAR decisions that could have gone our way but didn't, just like everyone else? Off the top of my head, here is a few examples:

Origi possibly fouled in the build up to Rashford's goal at Old Trafford
Mane goal ruled out for handball at Old Trafford
Firmino armpit offside goal against Villa
Sterling stamp on VVD at Anfield
Mane hip offside goal against Watford
Matip fouled during a corner against Newcastle
Brighton quick free-kick goal at Anfield
Salah put in a headlock in the box against Aston Villa

I am not saying any of the above events were correct or incorrect, I am simply listing a number of events that could have gone our way, but did not. They seem to get swept under the carpet when it comes to discussing Liverpool and VAR.

I can’t stand you lot and gutted you’ve finally won the league. But I do agree with you. People have lost all sense of objectivity and rationality with this, it’s very easy to cherry pick one example against another and use it as ‘proof’ of corruption.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

we should pressure dermot the mouthpiece to explaining why robertson didn t see red, he is full of shit.

I don't think it was a red card. As I saw it, it was reckless, but not endangering.

 

[stonerblue]

I am a Liverpool fan, so I am expecting to be called biased, but when I try to look at it as objectively as I can, I can't help but feel that the the focus is very much on the VAR decisions that have gone Liverpool's way, but there is no mention of the ones that went against us? This paints a picture that VAR is helping us massively, but the reality is that we've had our fair share of VAR decisions that could have gone our way but didn't, just like everyone else? Off the top of my head, here is a few examples:

Origi possibly fouled in the build up to Rashford's goal at Old Trafford
Mane goal ruled out for handball at Old Trafford
Firmino armpit offside goal against Villa
Sterling stamp on VVD at Anfield
Mane hip offside goal against Watford
Matip fouled during a corner against Newcastle
Brighton quick free-kick goal at Anfield
Salah put in a headlock in the box against Aston Villa

I am not saying any of the above events were correct or incorrect, I am simply listing a number of events that could have gone our way, but did not. They seem to get swept under the carpet when it comes to discussing Liverpool and VAR.

hahahaha....

 

[MillionMilesAway]

I can’t stand you lot and gutted you’ve finally won the league. But I do agree with you. People have lost all sense of objectivity and rationality with this, it’s very easy to cherry pick one example against another and use it as ‘proof’ of corruption.

I think Michael Oliver has done a lot to remove objectivity there!
However, the last part is right. It's easy to 'overlook' the incidents which don't fit the theory, and the whole list would be very long and coloured by perspective.

 

[Phil1]

I’d have loved Robertson to have been sent off for that particular incident but truth is it would have been harsh.
It’s the lack of yellows he gets for his shithousery that riles me up more.
Oh, and VAR is still a pile of steaming horseshit.

 

[Manc Born & Bred]

I am a Liverpool fan, so I am expecting to be called biased, but when I try to look at it as objectively as I can, I can't help but feel that the the focus is very much on the VAR decisions that have gone Liverpool's way, but there is no mention of the ones that went against us? This paints a picture that VAR is helping us massively, but the reality is that we've had our fair share of VAR decisions that could have gone our way but didn't, just like everyone else? Off the top of my head, here is a few examples:

Origi possibly fouled in the build up to Rashford's goal at Old Trafford - possibly but should have been stronger
Mane goal ruled out for handball at Old Trafford - ruled out for handball says it all really
Firmino armpit offside goal against Villa - same as a Wolves goal against you or Sterling or a Sheffield United player etc
Sterling stamp on VVD at Anfield - not aware of this but I notice no mention of Mane push or handball that led to your ball
Mane hip offside goal against Watford - see above
Matip fouled during a corner against Newcastle - not aware of this one but I do recall Lovren falling over when Ayew breathed on him
Brighton quick free-kick goal at Anfield - you mean when Dunk scored? Nothing wrong with that goal as presumably Dunk asked to take it
Salah put in a headlock in the box against Aston Villa - again not seen it so can't comment

I am not saying any of the above events were correct or incorrect, I am simply listing a number of events that could have gone our way, but did not. They seem to get swept under the carpet when it comes to discussing Liverpool and VAR.

 

[Copper]

You're missing the point. I stated in the post that I wasn't saying any of them were correct or incorrect. They're just examples of where VAR could have favoured us, but didn't, which in my opinion, kind of disproves that there's some kind of conspiracy to ensure everything goes our way.

For example, a lot of people are saying Henderson handled the ball for our goal against Spurs, and that the fact it was given shows that it is rigged, or whatever you want to call it, but if that's the case, why was Mane's one disallowed? You get me? And Mane's one was in a game we were losing 1-0, so if there was ever a time to give us a dodgy decision, surely that would be it?!

FYI, for the Dunk incident, the issue was that a Brighton player was too close to our wall, which is against the rules this season. That goal, according to the rules, should have not stood. This would have been such an easy one to rule in our favour, because it was actually breaking the rules, but it was allowed to stand and we played the final 15 minutes of the game with a precarious 2-1 scoreline, which, surely if there was an agenda, wouldn't have been allowed?

 

[Manc Born & Bred]

You're missing the point. I stated in the post that I wasn't saying any of them were correct or incorrect. They're just examples of where VAR could have favoured us, but didn't, which in my opinion, kind of disproves that there's some kind of conspiracy to ensure everything goes our way.

For example, a lot of people are saying Henderson handled the ball for our goal against Spurs, and that the fact it was given shows that it is rigged, or whatever you want to call it, but if that's the case, why was Mane's one disallowed? You get me? And Mane's one was in a game we were losing 1-0, so if there was ever a time to give us a dodgy decision, surely that would be it?!

FYI, for the Dunk incident, the issue was that a Brighton player was too close to our wall, which is against the rules this season. That goal, according to the rules, should have not stood. This would have been such an easy one to rule in our favour, because it was actually breaking the rules, but it was allowed to stand and we played the final 15 minutes of the game with a precarious 2-1 scoreline, which, surely if there was an agenda, wouldn't have been allowed?

I think you have spectacularly missed the point. Mane's was so obvious - he nearly slammed dunked it from memory, that it had to be disallowed, Henderson's needed a forensic check to see the slight handball. With the Dunk one not sure that a) the wall was set up and b) the fact a quick free kick was allowed negates everything. Compare what happened at Newcastle last year when KDB took a quick one from which we scored to make it 2-0. Disallowed and booked whereas you faked a free kick to win up there. You are so far clear now that I expect a few dodgy ones for both teams so that people will say it all evens out. Job has been done now and congrats on the league win let's hope next season is a more even playing field.

 

[Copper]

I think you have spectacularly missed the point. Mane's was so obvious - he nearly slammed dunked it from memory, that it had to be disallowed, Henderson's needed a forensic check to see the slight handball. With the Dunk one not sure that a) the wall was set up and b) the fact a quick free kick was allowed negates everything. Compare what happened at Newcastle last year when KDB took a quick one from which we scored to make it 2-0. Disallowed and booked whereas you faked a free kick to win up there. You are so far clear now that I expect a few dodgy ones for both teams so that people will say it all evens out. Job has been done now and congrats on the league win let's hope next season is a more even playing field.

Fair enough, you may have a point with regards to Mane's being too obvious to allow. But it still doesn't make sense for our Firmino/Mane offsides to be ruled out if we're supposed to be getting the decisions. The Origi foul in the build up to Rashford's goal would have been a very easy one to disallow too, but it wasn't.

 

[wattle]

each to their own, im still devastated we didn't get to a Champions League Final!!

If there was no var then Raheem goal would have stood so we probably would have

 

[Manc Born & Bred]

Fair enough, you may have a point with regards to Mane's being too obvious to allow. But it still doesn't make sense for our Firmino/Mane offsides to be ruled out if we're supposed to be getting the decisions. The Origi foul in the build up to Rashford's goal would have been a very easy one to disallow too, but it wasn't.

I suspect if you stay on here long enough you will realise how many decisions you are getting. two possibly three in our game alone. You should have been down to 10 and facing a penalty after five minutes. Numerous violent acts unpunished, blatant penalty in your derby not given which would have resulted in a red under the new laws, cards given out for dives not given, penalties for dives given, need I go on...

 

[MillionMilesAway]

You're missing the point. I stated in the post that I wasn't saying any of them were correct or incorrect. They're just examples of where VAR could have favoured us, but didn't, which in my opinion, kind of disproves that there's some kind of conspiracy to ensure everything goes our way.

For example, a lot of people are saying Henderson handled the ball for our goal against Spurs, and that the fact it was given shows that it is rigged, or whatever you want to call it, but if that's the case, why was Mane's one disallowed? You get me? And Mane's one was in a game we were losing 1-0, so if there was ever a time to give us a dodgy decision, surely that would be it?!

FYI, for the Dunk incident, the issue was that a Brighton player was too close to our wall, which is against the rules this season. That goal, according to the rules, should have not stood. This would have been such an easy one to rule in our favour, because it was actually breaking the rules, but it was allowed to stand and we played the final 15 minutes of the game with a precarious 2-1 scoreline, which, surely if there was an agenda, wouldn't have been allowed?

I can see what you're saying.

As you've previously said, it's not a good line of argument one way or the other, as if the most blatant things were not spotted all the time it wouldn't need opinions as there would be fairly strong evidence.

It also tends to become bogged down with concepts of context of a decision (mischievously, say a defender's handball 5 minutes into the biggest match of the season!), before getting onto opinions on the actual incident.

Armpit offsides are just plain dumb, and I doubt anyone here thinks they should be given on such fine margins. Both Liverpool and City have been hit by them.

I've said before that I don't think Liverpool are involved in arrangement of the shonkiness; I think they have benefitted overall from Riley and his goons' shonkiness. Next week, Oliver does his 5th Liverpool game of the season, and it'll only be Liverpool's 23rd match; that's ridiculous, and I doubt he'll be sent to the Etihad for a while yet after his efforts previously. I doubt we're looking forward to Mason against Sheffield Utd on Tuesday either.

 

[Copper]

I suspect if you stay on here long enough you will realise how many decisions you are getting. two possibly three in our game alone. You should have been down to 10 and facing a penalty after five minutes. Numerous violent acts unpunished, blatant penalty in your derby not given which would have resulted in a red under the new laws, cards given out for dives not given, penalties for dives given, need I go on...

Personally, I feel that if you look hard enough, or spend enough time focusing on the little things one team is getting away with, it is easy to go blind to the fact that it happens to everyone, more or less. Not just Liverpool.

I have seen City win penalties in a similar fashion to how Mane won our penalties against Leicester and Spurs, but they're quickly forgotten, whilst Mane's "engineered dives" against Leicester and Spurs are still talked about and scrutinised months later, for example. People are absolutely up in arms about Robertson's tackle, but Sterling's cheeky stamp on VVD has been completely forgotten about (someone even said to me earlier on here that they don't remember it, which says it all). If you put all your focus and energy into trying to spot the things we have "gotten away with", then of course it will seem like we are getting away with more than the other teams who you turn a blind eye to when the same things happen for them.

I also feel that the vast majority of the decisions that people are getting angry about come across as clutching at straws. Like saying Henderson handballed it against Spurs when really, it was near enough impossible to tell in any of the replays, or like constantly referring to the fact VVD may have handled it in the build up to our goal against Wolves (I think it was Wolves?) when, again, it was very difficult to conclude that he had actually handled it, and on top of that, it was explained that even if he did accidentally handle it, according to the rules, it still would have stood, due to it not being handled by the scorer or the creator. I feel like a lot of our "dodgy" decisions have actually been explained perfectly clearly to be correct decisions, but many people refuse to accept this and instead, it is all a part of some big, elaborate conspiracy, which does not make any sense at all, when you look at the number of things that have actually gone against us, as I mentioned before.

Edit: When it goes even further than that, and people start saying things like Liverpool will get decisions against them now to give the appearance of things evening up, or that opposition goalkeepers are all in on this big, elaborate conspiracy to ensure Liverpool win the League, then it starts to really get mind-bogglingly surreal to read and approaches flat-earther territory.

Edit 2: But that's football fandom, for you. I distinctly remember being the same about Fergie's United teams and Howard Webb!

Edit 3: It happens every season, for the leaders/winners, although the reasons/narrative varies.

Liverpool this season? VAR
City winning the last 2 PLs? Oil money
Chelsea winning the League in 2016/17? Nothing without Costa's cheating
Leciester winning it in 2015/16? Everyone else was bad

There's always something, you can't get away from it. Rival fans will always blame a rival's dominance/trophy win on something other than the fact that actually, they are quite good.

 

[Manc Born & Bred]

Personally, I feel that if you look hard enough, or spend enough time focusing on the little things one team is getting away with, it is easy to go blind to the fact that it happens to everyone, more or less. Not just Liverpool.

I have seen City win penalties in a similar fashion to how Mane won our penalties against Leicester and Spurs, but they're quickly forgotten, whilst Mane's "engineered dives" against Leicester and Spurs are still talked about and scrutinised months later, for example. People are absolutely up in arms about Robertson's tackle, but Sterling's cheeky stamp on VVD has been completely forgotten about (someone even said to me earlier on here that they don't remember it, which says it all). If you put all your focus and energy into trying to spot the things we have "gotten away with", then of course it will seem like we are getting away with more than the other teams who you turn a blind eye to when the same things happen for them.

I also feel that the vast majority of the decisions that people are getting angry about come across as clutching at straws. Like saying Henderson handballed it against Spurs when really, it was near enough impossible to tell in any of the replays, or like constantly referring to the fact VVD may have handled it in the build up to our goal against Wolves (I think it was Wolves?) when, again, it was very difficult to conclude that he had actually handled it, and on top of that, it was explained that even if he did accidentally handle it, according to the rules, it still would have stood, due to it not being handled by the scorer or the creator. I feel like a lot of our "dodgy" decisions have actually been explained perfectly clearly to be correct decisions, but many people refuse to accept this and instead, it is all a part of some big, elaborate conspiracy, which does not make any sense at all, when you look at the number of things that have actually gone against us, as I mentioned before.

Edit: When it goes even further than that, and people start saying things like Liverpool will get decisions against them now to give the appearance of things evening up, or that opposition goalkeepers are all in on this big, elaborate conspiracy to ensure Liverpool win the League, then it starts to really get mind-bogglingly surreal to read and approaches flat-earther territory.

Edit 2: But that's football fandom, for you. I distinctly remember being the same about Fergie's United teams and Howard Webb!

Edit 3: It happens every season, for the leaders/winners, although the reasons/narrative varies.

Liverpool this season? VAR
City winning the last 2 PLs? Oil money
Chelsea winning the League in 2016/17? Nothing without Costa's cheating
Leciester winning it in 2015/16? Everyone else was bad

There's always something, you can't get away from it. Rival fans will always blame a rival's dominance/trophy win on something other than the fact that actually, they are quite good.

I gave up at this 'I have seen City win penalties in a similar fashion to how Mane won our penalties against Leicester and Spurs'. Bye enjoy your life and trolling

 

[Copper]

I gave up at this 'I have seen City win penalties in a similar fashion to how Mane won our penalties against Leicester and Spurs'. Bye enjoy your life and trolling

Okay... I mean, it is true, so I don't know what else you want me to say? Sterling and Mahrez have both won penalties in a similar fashion. This is what I mean by turning a blind eye to it, but if you don't want to continue the discussion, that's fine by me.

 

[the-ecstacy-of-eight]

Personally, I feel that if you look hard enough, or spend enough time focusing on the little things one team is getting away with....

So what you're effectively saying is that your results and the media rhetoric regarding your results don't stand up to scrutiny (?)

 

[ballinio]

Personally, I feel that if you look hard enough, or spend enough time focusing on the little things one team is getting away with, it is easy to go blind to the fact that it happens to everyone, more or less. Not just Liverpool.

I have seen City win penalties in a similar fashion to how Mane won our penalties against Leicester and Spurs, but they're quickly forgotten, whilst Mane's "engineered dives" against Leicester and Spurs are still talked about and scrutinised months later, for example. People are absolutely up in arms about Robertson's tackle, but Sterling's cheeky stamp on VVD has been completely forgotten about (someone even said to me earlier on here that they don't remember it, which says it all). If you put all your focus and energy into trying to spot the things we have "gotten away with", then of course it will seem like we are getting away with more than the other teams who you turn a blind eye to when the same things happen for them.

I also feel that the vast majority of the decisions that people are getting angry about come across as clutching at straws. Like saying Henderson handballed it against Spurs when really, it was near enough impossible to tell in any of the replays, or like constantly referring to the fact VVD may have handled it in the build up to our goal against Wolves (I think it was Wolves?) when, again, it was very difficult to conclude that he had actually handled it, and on top of that, it was explained that even if he did accidentally handle it, according to the rules, it still would have stood, due to it not being handled by the scorer or the creator. I feel like a lot of our "dodgy" decisions have actually been explained perfectly clearly to be correct decisions, but many people refuse to accept this and instead, it is all a part of some big, elaborate conspiracy, which does not make any sense at all, when you look at the number of things that have actually gone against us, as I mentioned before.

Edit: When it goes even further than that, and people start saying things like Liverpool will get decisions against them now to give the appearance of things evening up, or that opposition goalkeepers are all in on this big, elaborate conspiracy to ensure Liverpool win the League, then it starts to really get mind-bogglingly surreal to read and approaches flat-earther territory.

Edit 2: But that's football fandom, for you. I distinctly remember being the same about Fergie's United teams and Howard Webb!

Edit 3: It happens every season, for the leaders/winners, although the reasons/narrative varies.

Liverpool this season? VAR
City winning the last 2 PLs? Oil money
Chelsea winning the League in 2016/17? Nothing without Costa's cheating
Leciester winning it in 2015/16? Everyone else was bad

There's always something, you can't get away from it. Rival fans will always blame a rival's dominance/trophy win on something other than the fact that actually, they are quite good.

Your title is a hollow victory , var gave it you , the facts back this up , you’re just trying a bullshit baffles brains strategy, fans up & down the country know what’s going on , having cheated & every major decision gone your way you will get no respect .

 

[Phil1]

They will give no shits at all if their title is perceived to be tainted.
Nor will two fucks be given about any lack of respect (which won’t happen in the media, anyway)
They are blinded to any criticism of their club.
The weird fucking cult that they are.

 

[Newman Noggs]

Your title is a hollow victory , var gave it you , the facts back this up , you’re just trying a bullshit baffles brains strategy, fans up & down the country know what’s going on , having cheated & every major decision gone your way you will get no respect .

I can't agree with this. I think their consistency means that they might have won the league without VAR. The trouble is, we'll never know.