UEFA FFP investigation - CAS decision to be announced Monday, 13th July 9.30am BST

What do you think will be the outcome of the CAS hearing?

  • Two-year ban upheld

    Votes: 197 13.1%

  • Ban reduced to one year

    Votes: 422 28.2%

  • Ban overturned and City exonerated

    Votes: 815 54.4%

  • Other

    Votes: 65 4.3%
  • Total voters
    1,499
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Marvin said:
Do you just allow a Billionaire to come into football and buy success?

That was the fundamental objection of Man Utd fans who saw Blackburn and Chelsea and then City to move onto their turf and the rest of football was happy to watch them stitch us up.

I think a sustainability rule is reasonable, or do you just ignore it entirely?
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In the 90s we saw Spurs and United float on the stock exchange to try and attract capital so the clubs could compete on anything like equality with the major European clubs. English clubs began to exploit other sources of revenue from outside the game. This was necessary because many of the clubs the English were trying to compete with had very rich, influential and powerful owners. It's no secret that Real Madrid were effectively bankrolled by the Spanish state, Barcelona were financed by Catalan business, Bayern supported by Bavarian business, many Italian clubs had owners far richer than English clubs could dream of and PSV were owned by the Philips corporation. So from the earliest times billionaires have been a part of European football and in the light of that experience I would turn your question around and ask what you're going to do to stop it, Marvin. It's hard to point to clubs ruined by billionaires wishing to buy trophies. What has ruined clubs is owners trying to buy success by borrowing and we have examples in Portsmouth and Leeds, two examples which lead us to a vital point, that neither would have failed FFP! But the phrasing of your question is exactly the way UEFA sees it - success must not come through riches and money must not come into the game if it risks some non-existent competitive balance. And yet we at City can say that our club has never been more stable, it has never played such great football and it has forced other clubs to raise the standard of the game throughout the PL.

The other point I was trying to make is that football finance has to operate within a legal framework or frameworks on a continental scale while the differences between clubs are massive - United and Norwich are in the same football division but massively different financial leagues. This creates a situation of such bewildering complexity that we have seen the mess UEFA have made of trying to bring in regulations which can apply to all clubs. What we find is that regulation turns out to be massively unfair to some (usually the smallest and poorest) while being a distraction to others and even leading to the development of sharp practice which can lead to football's energies draining away into litigation.
 
As if by magic following my posts yesterday UEFA have released figures that show the European clubs where in profit for the 2nd year running after running up losses of 5bn for 2008 to 2011.

Uefa and its president, Aleksander Ceferin, pointed to the generally increased financial strength of the European game, and major investment by 80% of clubs in their training facilities, as a transformational result of the FFP rules that require clubs to tightly restrict their losses. The overall profit, €140m, although down from €615m in 2016-17, the first profitable year, compares with losses of more than €5bn in 2008-11, the three years before the limits were introduced in response to concerns about football’s financial sustainability.
 
BobbyBoy said:
As if by magic following my posts yesterday UEFA have released figures that show the European clubs where in profit for the 2nd year running after running up losses of 5bn for 2008 to 2011.

Uefa and its president, Aleksander Ceferin, pointed to the generally increased financial strength of the European game, and major investment by 80% of clubs in their training facilities, as a transformational result of the FFP rules that require clubs to tightly restrict their losses. The overall profit, €140m, although down from €615m in 2016-17, the first profitable year, compares with losses of more than €5bn in 2008-11, the three years before the limits were introduced in response to concerns about football’s financial sustainability.
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However, it also points out that revenues continue to concentrate around those generated by the ‘big five’ leagues reaching a record high of 75 per cent, up from last year’s mark of 69 per cent. This is largely at the expense of countries outside the top 10, whose share has fallen from 16 to 12 per cent.


The report found the combined revenues of the 20 English Premier League clubs, €5.4bn, was more than the 617 clubs in all 50 leagues below the top four. The Premier League also continues to outshine its nearest European rivals, with German Bundesliga clubs bringing in €3.2bn, Spanish LaLiga teams €3.1bn, Italian Serie A clubs €2.3bn and French Ligue 1 teams €1.7bn.


Uefa added that preliminary reporting from 2019 indicates that, for the first time, the top 30 clubs will be responsible for more than half of all top division club revenues. On the other side of equation, the wage bill of the 98 ‘big five’ clubs increased by more than €1bn, representing 88 per cent of all wage growth, and these clubs were responsible for 85 per cent of gross transfer spending and 75 per cent of top division transfer earnings.

There is also that. All the measures taken by UEFA (FFP, CL spots allocation, history based coefficient cash prize) have been at the expense of the poorest and less powerful, influent clubs and leagues and it is showing. They are slowly creating a de facto Super League by controlling the money distribution.

How can you take seriously a Financial Fair Play from an organization that isn't fairly distributing the money to the different clubs in the first place ?
My club is benefiting from it but it is still upsetting to see.
 
Parisian said:
However, it also points out that revenues continue to concentrate around those generated by the ‘big five’ leagues reaching a record high of 75 per cent, up from last year’s mark of 69 per cent. This is largely at the expense of countries outside the top 10, whose share has fallen from 16 to 12 per cent.


The report found the combined revenues of the 20 English Premier League clubs, €5.4bn, was more than the 617 clubs in all 50 leagues below the top four. The Premier League also continues to outshine its nearest European rivals, with German Bundesliga clubs bringing in €3.2bn, Spanish LaLiga teams €3.1bn, Italian Serie A clubs €2.3bn and French Ligue 1 teams €1.7bn.


Uefa added that preliminary reporting from 2019 indicates that, for the first time, the top 30 clubs will be responsible for more than half of all top division club revenues. On the other side of equation, the wage bill of the 98 ‘big five’ clubs increased by more than €1bn, representing 88 per cent of all wage growth, and these clubs were responsible for 85 per cent of gross transfer spending and 75 per cent of top division transfer earnings.

There is also that. All the measures taken by UEFA (FFP, CL spots allocation, history based coefficient cash prize) have been at the expense of the poorest and less powerful, influent clubs and leagues and it is showing. They are slowly creating a de facto Super League by controlling the money distribution.

How can you take seriously a Financial Fair Play from an organization that isn't fairly distributing the money to the different clubs in the first place ?
My club is benefiting from it but it is still upsetting to see.
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I share your disquiet. The problem is that the architects of FFP hark back to the days when a Man Utd dominated the entire Football League, or AC Milan controlled Italian football. Football regulation has been hijacked for continued self-interest.
 
Marvin said:
I share your disquiet. The problem is that the architects of FFP hark back to the days when a Man Utd dominated the entire Football League, or AC Milan controlled Italian football. Football regulation has been hijacked for continued self-interest.
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In many ways that’s still true.... the Spanish League is dominated largely by 2 clubs who get their own way on just about everything. Juventus own Serie A, PSG own the French League, FC Bayern own and bully everyone in the Bundesliga - so it’s not surprising that these clubs used to getting their own way domestically- expect to tell UEFA exactly what to do when they get used to dictating to their domestic Associations.
 
SatOnTheWall said:
Why not?
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Exactly. This case is the equivalent of Toyota, VW and Ford ganging* together to stop Tesla making cars and challenging the established Automakers. There will always be challengers and new kids on the block. Football is a cartel and it’s actions are not sustainable in a capitalist world.
 
Manchester City are set to take part in next season's Champions League, despite the investigation into whether they breached Financial Fair Play rules. A meeting will take place next week, at which City will be present, but a decision is not expected at it. [@MikeKeegan_DM]
 
karen7 said:
Manchester City are set to take part in next season's Champions League, despite the investigation into whether they breached Financial Fair Play rules. A meeting will take place next week, at which City will be present, but a decision is not expected at it. [@MikeKeegan_DM]
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Bizarre. We did breach FFP rules and were sanctioned for it.

My understanding is that we will be asked to present our case, which we weren't able to do before the case was passed to the Adjudicatory Chamber. Despite that they tried to get us to accept a token punishment, which we refused to do. We will not accept that we did anything wrong and therefore won't agree to any punishment. And that's from the top.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Bizarre. We did breach FFP rules and were sanctioned for it.

My understanding is that we will be asked to present our case, which we weren't able to do before the case was passed to the Adjudicatory Chamber. Despite that they tried to get us to accept a token punishment, which we refused to do. We will not accept that we did anything wrong and therefore won't agree to any punishment. And that's from the top.
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good, glad to hear that! Time to beat these fuckers once and for all!
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Bizarre. We did breach FFP rules and were sanctioned for it.

My understanding is that we will be asked to present our case, which we weren't able to do before the case was passed to the Adjudicatory Chamber. Despite that they tried to get us to accept a token punishment, which we refused to do. We will not accept that we did anything wrong and therefore won't agree to any punishment. And that's from the top.
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Excellent as Mr Burns would say
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Bizarre. We did breach FFP rules and were sanctioned for it.

My understanding is that we will be asked to present our case, which we weren't able to do before the case was passed to the Adjudicatory Chamber. Despite that they tried to get us to accept a token punishment, which we refused to do. We will not accept that we did anything wrong and therefore won't agree to any punishment. And that's from the top.
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I assume that Ceferin is under pressure from the usual suspects. What are they threatening?
 
KS55 said:
I assume that Ceferin is under pressure from the usual suspects. What are they threatening?
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UEFA are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The IC investigation was flawed on so many levels and Ceferin knows this which is why he turned up at City's last two CL games with an offer to find City guilty on a minor technicality and impose a small fine. City, quite rightly, told him to go forth and multiply. His masters in the 'establishment' clubs will be pressing him to punish City possibly with their old threat to duck out of the CL and form a breakaway competition. IMO this is why the 'decision' has been delayed so long. i.e. UEFA simply don't know what to do.
 
laserblue said:
UEFA are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The IC investigation was flawed on so many levels and Ceferin knows this which is why he turned up at City's last two CL games with an offer to find City guilty on a minor technicality and impose a small fine. City, quite rightly, told him to go forth and multiply. His masters in the 'establishment' clubs will be pressing him to punish City possibly with their old threat to duck out of the CL and form a breakaway competition. IMO this is why the 'decision' has been delayed so long. i.e. UEFA simply don't know what to do.
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Mark my words there would have been none of this shit had our owners been American.
 
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