COVID-19 — Coronavirus

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It is good to see that this thread follows the pattern of all threads. Culminating in some people .(normally the same people ) being world experts on the subject. Also a few conspiracy theories, a couple of piss takers, and of course @karen7 delving into her vast medical expertise and experience to add a little bit of sense to the inevitable slanging match that occurs.

Much more interesting and informative than the Daily Mail.

Look it’s ‘just the flu’ and there is not a Bar chart or Pie graph that will convince me otherwise!

Having settled that argument,I will shortly be delivering my findings on Herd immunity to BM at around 15.00 GMT - there is mounting speculation that I am very glad to not be part of it.
 
he is allowing the advisors to push him down a path very different to what other countries are doing and against the WHO advice,the WHO guy was at great pains to say they are very worried about some countries inaction,they want this shut down and not some waffle about a plan to get herd immunity which involves exposure an d figures of 60% of the population needing to get it
 
Fair point, the 2nd bit is still valid mind. I suppose we’ll have to see what happens in China when lockdown is over. Has there been anything about that on the news?
From the BBC:

Posted at 8:028:02
More imported cases in China than local infections
For the first time China is reporting that it has more new cases of the virus brought from outside the country, than infections passed on locally.

The data released by China's National Health Commission shows that the country had 11 new cases on Friday, four of which were locally transmitted in Hubei province where the new coronavirus began.

The other seven cases are in travellers from Italy, the US and Saudi Arabia.


BBC have also reported that Chinese intensive care specialists, pediatricians and nurses have arrived in Italy with specialist equipment including ventilators. I hope that they are in Iran too.
 
They are hoping that but still don't know and that is the problem, people making statements that you will be immune if you recover from it when no one is sure are not helpful.

Best to just say we don't know.
To be honest mate, if you’re not immune to it once you’ve had it the games up. It’ll just infect everyone sooner or later and we might as well just all carry on as normal.
 
From the BBC:

Posted at 8:028:02
More imported cases in China than local infections
For the first time China is reporting that it has more new cases of the virus brought from outside the country, than infections passed on locally.

The data released by China's National Health Commission shows that the country had 11 new cases on Friday, four of which were locally transmitted in Hubei province where the new coronavirus began.

The other seven cases are in travellers from Italy, the US and Saudi Arabia.


BBC have also reported that Chinese intensive care specialists, pediatricians and nurses have arrived in Italy with specialist equipment including ventilators. I hope that they are in Iran too.

But they’re still in lockdown right?

So until these measures are lifted we won’t know whether it will spread again.
 
Don't thank him too soon, no one has said that about this and don't know if once you have had it you can catch it again.

It has been said this is not like other corobaviruses and cannot be grouped with other known ones like flu.

There is no evidence that immunity is even possible at the minute as some cases of people recovering and then relapsing have been reported in Japan, Cina and S Korea, so any immunity could only be short lasting.
Thanks but no thanks. :-)
 
What's become clear to me over the past few days is that the experts advised our government have got it badly wrong. They went down the path of assuming that endemic infection of our population was inevitable and therefore what is our best response.

It is clear that their underlying assumption and the ensuing guidance and measures was wrong. China has demonstrated very clearly that with strict isolation measures, the rates of infection can be very severely limited. Hubei province has a population roughly the same as that of the UK and yet they have managed to limit spread to only 80,000 cases. Elsewhere in China, clearly infections are much, much lower and *critically* they are not rising quickly either. We can easily manage numbers of this scale if spread out over several months.

There was some idiot government adviser on a Channel 4 documentary last night, steadfastly trying to defend the duff advice he had provided, saying yes but what will happen when China relax their restrictions. The answer of course is that they should ease off the restrictions gradually, and if numbers begin to rise again, then clamp down again.

We may need a few repeated relaxing and tightening of measures but by doing this I can see how it would be perfectly possible to keep the rate of new infections within the capacity of the health service to deal with them. This would have a huge impact on the overall survival rates and the number of unnecessary deaths. We would need to do this until such time as a vaccine arrives, which optimistically could be early next year. We may get respite this summer as well and life could potentially be relatively back to normal over the summer until we need to clamp down again as the winter months come.

I am convinced this is the right approach, and that the government's allowing 60% or 70% of the population to catch it, with the unavoidable massive overload of our resources, inability to treat patients requiring ICU support and ensuing needlessly high death rates, is absolutely wrong.
 
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But they’re still in lockdown right?

So until these measures are lifted we won’t know whether it will spread again.
See above. If it does, clamp down again. Much better than the alternative of just sitting back and letting calamity ensue on the assumption that it is unavoidable. It isn't unavoidable.
 
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What's become clear to me over the past few days is that the experts advised our government have got it badly wrong. They went down the path of assuming that endemic infection of our population was inevitable and therefore what is our best response.

It is clear that their underlying assumption and the ensuing guidance and measures was wrong. China has demonstrated very clearly that with strict isolation measures, the rates of infection can be very severely limited. Hubei province has a population roughly the same as that of the UK and yet they have managed to limit spread to only 80,000 cases. Elsewhere in China, clearly infections are much, much lower and *critically* they are not rising quickly either. We can easily manage numbers of this scale if spread out over several months.

There was some idiot government adviser on a Channel 4 documentary last night, steadfastly trying to defend the duff advice he had provided, saying yes but what will happen when China relax their restrictions. The answer of course is that they should ease off the restrictions gradually, and if numbers begin to rise again, then clamp down again.

We made need a few repeated relaxing and tightening of measures but by doing this I can see how it would be perfectly possible to keep the rate of new infections within the capacity of the health service to deal with them. This would have a huge impact on the overall survival rates and the number of unnecessary deaths. We would need to do this until such time as a vaccine arrives, which optimistically could be early next year. We may get respite this summer as well and life could potentially be relatively back to normal over the summer until we need to clamp down again as the winter months come.

I am convinced this is the right approach, and that the government's allowing 60% or 70% of the population to catch it, with the unavoidable massive overload of our resources, inability to treat patients requiring ICU support and ensuing needlessly high death rates, is absolutely wrong.
They may change communication style but they wont change tack.
 
It’s right. People need to understand the scale of what is happening here. They are sacrificing our elderly loved ones, murdering them. Blood will be on Boris’ hands, lots of it.
It's not just him though. This strategy came from the heads of the medical profession and the Government didn't have the bottle to question it when the Chinese showed that there was another way.
 
See above. If it does, clamp down again. Much better than the alternative of just sitting back and letting calamity ensue on the assumption that it is unavoidable. It isn't unavoidable.

You really think potential continuous lockdowns are sustainable? This could last several months.

I’m not saying our way is definitely the right way but I don’t think we could do the above.

Ultimately only in retrospect will we know which was the right way.
 
To be honest mate, if you’re not immune to it once you’ve had it the games up. It’ll just infect everyone sooner or later and we might as well just all carry on as normal.
Not so. We simply need to avoid NHS overload until a vaccine is available.

We have to accept that up to 1% of infected cases will probably die no matter what we do. This is of course terrible in itself but it can be much worse. Something like 5% of people will need intensive care - invasive or non-invasive ventilator support. Without it, nearly all of that 5% die. So if the NHS gets substantially overloaded then we have no chance of keeping the death rate anywhere near 1%. It is imperative we do everything possible to stop the spread, irrespective of whether people can develop immunity or not. I hear some woman on the TV as I type saying she's going to a lower league game today on the basis of "oh well I could catch it at Tesco anyway". It is that sort of attitude - allowed to form due to such shit awful advice from the government - which could cause unmitigated disaster.
 
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You really think potential continuous lockdowns are sustainable? This could last several months.

I’m not saying our way is definitely the right way but I don’t think we could do the above.

Ultimately only in retrospect will we know which was the right way.
No, I'm suggesting clamp down until numbers are falling not rising. And then clamp down again later if needed. May not be needed in the summer anyway.

I'd expect us to have to have restrictions in place - on or off - for a year or more. The only other option is to watch the calamity in Italy across the whole UK, but much much worse with far higher infection rates and even lower ability to treat people. People who could be saved, dying needlessly, alone in corridors in the thousands. That's the alternative.
 
This virus is just a new strand of flu, every year the flu virus evolve and change itself.

This whole thing is overhype, they acting like it the plague.
AND look at all those people that sleep around with random people, one night stands, friends with benefits, strip clubs, sex with random stranger you meet at the clubs, those who open their legs to anyone just so they can get child support money for the next 18 years, etc.. swapping fluids with strangers with no protection. YET no one afraid of Sexual Transmitted Disease. STD, HELLO?!!

But then now afraid of a new strand of flu.

anyhoo in any way I'm not taken the corona lightly, it just give it time geeze, it will settle down in 5 weeks or so. It not the end of the world.

eta: and just want to add this. Quote, statistic [ The number of novel coronavirus infections and deaths is currently only a fraction of the figure associated with the H1N1 pandemic. ]
You’ll catch a few with that.
 
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