UEFA FFP investigation - CAS decision to be announced Monday, 13th July 9.30am BST

[KS55]

You have not been paying attention to the collapse in oil prices?

Oil prices have dropped before and Saudi can easily ride it out. It was they who decided to lower the price. They do their sums.

 

[KS55]

I see what you mean. And regarding your earlier post, we don’t know the Glazers financial situation. The last I heard was that United were “amply” keeping the failing malls afloat. That third hand info is 5 years old though.

Yes, and united may not be able to cover, if games are postponed for a long time. It is possible that the rags are used as collateral for US debt. If so, scary times.

 

[spiny]

UEFA could lose that amount easily if this crisis lasts just a few more months. They may even get tangled up with lots of legal actions from sponsors and broadcasters related directly to coronavirus. UEFA has got deep pockets (not as deep as our owners) but fighting us in court would suck the life out of them. UEFA is now facing a commercial crisis which makes the City FFP case look like very small beer.
The same is probably true of City. CFG will be hit massively worldwide by coronavirus chaos. will have taken a huge hit with the oil price war and now faces a global recession which will damage all his investments. The appetite for a legal battle must have been reduced on both sides. Both parties have now got bigger fish to fry. The same is probably true of CAS. The world will be changed by this pandemic and that includes football.

I couldnt disagree more that "the appetite for a legal battle must have been reduced on both sides." For UEFA maybe but not Manchester City and CFG who should continue to press to be unreservedly exonerated from any wrong doing.

Sheikh Mansour's other investments dwarf those in CFG but it has become personal in the way City has been subjected to unrelenting vicious, attacks by UEFA and others especially through G14 clubs and the media.

To reopen a case after having agreed a settlement in good faith where there was no admission of guilt by City and in questionable circumstances is entirely down to UEFA. The process, judgement and punishment again is entirely down to UEFA. FFP, the rules and ongoing changes to accommodate certain parties are entirely down to UEFA.

CFG and Manchester City are high profile flagship investments for ADUG where success on the field has already led to growth and return on investment with huge potential for profitability.

The whole episode appears designed to personally undermine the integrity of Sheikh Mansour, discredit the achievements of Manchester City and financially hamstring the Club. Khaldoon has made our position clear with the ball wholly in UEFA's court to resolve as well as CAS.

If UEFA have sense, they will root out those responsible within UEFA for FFP and the vendetta against City to save their organisation and restore honour all round. The world will be a different place after coronavirus and football will need owners who invest. Those who take out money and run on debt will be at real risk of going bust. I expect us to be even more determined to pursue and win our case.

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

Good post bobby. I think we have much more incentive to see the appeal through and even to chance our arm in the Swiss Supreme Court (if necessary) because the punishment we are faced with totals a minimum of £150mil. It is worth the Sheikh risking £10mil to £20mil on lawyers unless UEFA offer us a very vary favourable out of court settlement.

I agree we have more incentive than UEFA but have always thought UEFA was pressurised into sanctioning us by factions within it and a vicious media campaign against City orchestrated by our commercial rivals. I still think they will be looking for a way out, perhaps more than us because our reputation has suffered. But in the end pragmatism often settles these sort of disputes. The new context means we could lose more money as a business because of Coronavirus than from a CL ban. It just changes the whole dialogue.

 

[JGL07]

Oil prices have dropped before and Saudi can easily ride it out. It was they who decided to lower the price. They do their sums.

Yes but they have fallen out with the Russians about how do deal with USA shale gas production. The real fall in prices has yet to come. Half the world is approaching lockdown and that will not help.

I think the days of the Saudis having a bottomless pit of money are long gone.

United wouldn’t offer that much as their ‘value’ or rather sale price would be ridiculously high. ADUG got City for a song and could hardly fail. United are a very different case.

They have arguably the highest wage bill in world football and yet continue to underperform. It will cost a fortune to turn that lot around.

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

I couldnt disagree more that "the appetite for a legal battle must have been reduced on both sides." For UEFA maybe but not Manchester City and CFG who should continue to press to be unreservedly exonerated from any wrong doing.

Sheikh Mansour's other investments dwarf those in CFG but it has become personal in the way City has been subjected to unrelenting vicious, attacks by UEFA and others especially through G14 clubs and the media.

To reopen a case after having agreed a settlement in good faith where there was no admission of guilt by City and in questionable circumstances is entirely down to UEFA. The process, judgement and punishment again is entirely down to UEFA. FFP, the rules and ongoing changes to accommodate certain parties are entirely down to UEFA.

CFG and Manchester City are high profile flagship investments for ADUG where success on the field has already led to growth and return on investment with huge potential for profitability.

The whole episode appears designed to personally undermine the integrity of Sheikh Mansour, discredit the achievements of Manchester City and financially hamstring the Club. Khaldoon has made our position clear with the ball wholly in UEFA's court to resolve as well as CAS.

If UEFA have sense, they will root out those responsible within UEFA for FFP and the vendetta against City to save their organisation and restore honour all round. The world will be a different place after coronavirus and football will need owners who invest. Those who take out money and run on debt will be at real risk of going bust. I expect us to be even more determined to pursue and win our case.

I agree with most of your points. City have suffered reputational damage and still have a strong incentive. But I suspect the FFP slur will fade away rapidly because of the scale of damage caused by this pandemic, which is a much bigger story. CAS may be tempted to get this off their books quickly by clearing us.
Even some of our enemies within UEFA and football may decide they have bigger things to worry about. The Glazers will be devastated by the coming worldwide recession, FSG are also very exposed with their big sports portfolio in the USA, Real Madrid and Barca rely heavily on overseas fans and the pandemic may undermine this revenue stream for years, not just months. I just have a gut feeling that UEFA may use this crisis to get themselves off a very big hook.

 

[remember arthur mann]

One thing about being sat on a big fat wedge is just that, you can sit on it ! No problem for the Sheikh !!

 

[spiny]

I agree with most of your points. City have suffered reputational damage and still have a strong incentive. But I suspect the FFP slur will fade away rapidly because of the scale of damage caused by this pandemic, which is a much bigger story. CAS may be tempted to get this off their books quickly by clearing us.
Even some of our enemies within UEFA and football may decide they have bigger things to worry about. The Glazers will be devastated by the coming worldwide recession, FSG are also very exposed with their big sports portfolio in the USA, Real Madrid and Barca rely heavily on overseas fans and the pandemic may undermine this revenue stream for years, not just months. I just have a gut feeling that UEFA may use this crisis to get themselves off a very big hook.

I agree that FFP will fade away or revert to its original concept to discourage debt. The FFP mantra has been that debt is good if it can be serviced by revenue, so favouring the historic elite rich clubs. It is likely to end as coronavirus has serious impact on cash flow due to cancelled fixtures and contractual obligations. The Glazers buy back of shares is a short term tactic designed to improve their long term strategy. As you point out, it may not work.

I agree that UEFA need to get off a "very big hook". But those anti City forces within UEFA that hung us up are those now at the biggest risk. I expect us not go away without exoneration and a power shift.

 

[KS55]

Yes but they have fallen out with the Russians about how do deal with USA shale gas production. The real fall in prices has yet to come. Half the world is approaching lockdown and that will not help.

I think the days of the Saudis having a bottomless pit of money are long gone.

United wouldn’t offer that much as their ‘value’ or rather sale price would be ridiculously high. ADUG got City for a song and could hardly fail. United are a very different case.

They have arguably the highest wage bill in world football and yet continue to underperform. It will cost a fortune to turn that lot around.

Well, they have never had a bottomess pit but football clubs are tiny organizations compared to, say, supermarkets. If the saudis wanted to buy the rags, the price is a fleabite.

 

[Gordyola]

you don’t need a hearing. UEFA are incredibly likely to agree to it without a hearing. In any event, if they didn’t a hearing can take place by video or telephone link. It’s what the government are looking at here, in fact.

we have appealed, part of that process is a request to suspend the sanctions until the appeal has been determined. It’s par for the course for any appeal TBH. The club will be on top of this.

No it’s not the appellant has to request the suspension which CAS will consider the merit of No public announcement has been made either way on this

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

No it’s not the appellant has to request the suspension which CAS will consider the merit of No public announcement has been made either way on this

Worth noting that a suspension would be for uefa's benefit so they don't face further legal proceedings if the charges against us are found to be a bit rubbish.

 

[King KdB of Belgium]

Mike N should we our appeal at CAS. We as a club could then go after UEFA for all the legal costs involved in fighting this case. I cannot see that UEFA would be pleased about that should this happen.

 

[Chris in London]

No it’s not the appellant has to request the suspension which CAS will consider the merit of No public announcement has been made either way on this

and you think we didn’t ask for that suspension when we put in the appeal, do you?

 

[Gordyola]

and you think we didn’t ask for that suspension when we put in the appeal, do you?

It doesn't matter what I think. I try to research and there is no evidence that City have asked for a suspension. In fact there is a strong opinion that City have not asked as, by doing so would mean that CAS wouldn't expedite the case, with respect the squad planning etc that wouldn't be in City's interest

This is what LAW in Sport have outlined of the procedure This was pre the Covid 19 outbreak

Given the comparatively short time before the ban from UEFA competitions takes effect on Manchester City (i.e. the commencement of UEFA competitions for the 2020/2021 season in the summer of 2020), the parties may elect, by mutual consent, to an expedited procedure (pursuant to R52 for appeals and R44.4 for ordinary arbitration proceedings). If the parties cannot agree to expedited proceedings, a party can apply for ‘Provisional and Conservatory Measures’ under R37. For example, Manchester City may be able to apply for an order to the effect that the ban is suspending pending exhaustion of the CAS proceedings.

 

[nmc]

I could be that our ban does take effect and we are banned this season - although it’ll probably be academic since there’s unlikely to be a full blown Champions League next season. However, even if there’s no league there will be financial implicit for the club so maybe we can be banned, there be no consequence in terms of football but we get to make a compensation claim later ? Whatever happens if our confidence is well founded - and on balance I think it is - UEFA are going to take a significant financial hit.

 

[Andy TheCatalyst Morrison]

we started to play football on the grass and not in the floodlights

Did you see Quinn play? A much better footballer than a lot of people give him credit for.

 

[Chris in London]

It doesn't matter what I think. I try to research and there is no evidence that City have asked for a suspension. In fact there is a strong opinion that City have not asked as, by doing so would mean that CAS wouldn't expedite the case, with respect the squad planning etc that wouldn't be in City's interest

This is what LAW in Sport have outlined of the procedure This was pre the Covid 19 outbreak

Given the comparatively short time before the ban from UEFA competitions takes effect on Manchester City (i.e. the commencement of UEFA competitions for the 2020/2021 season in the summer of 2020), the parties may elect, by mutual consent, to an expedited procedure (pursuant to R52 for appeals and R44.4 for ordinary arbitration proceedings). If the parties cannot agree to expedited proceedings, a party can apply for ‘Provisional and Conservatory Measures’ under R37. For example, Manchester City may be able to apply for an order to the effect that the ban is suspending pending exhaustion of the CAS proceedings.

city are represented by some of the best solicitors around. If you want to worry yourself that they’ve forgotten to do something as basic as ask for the sanction to be suspended until the appeal has been heard, fill your boots.

 

[ancoats]

Did you see Quinn play? A much better footballer than a lot of people give him credit for.

i did indeed see quinny play loads of times and yes was also good on the floor. but the team and managers just used him as a outlet ball and play from there in winning the 2nd ball. BFS and moyes type of player and long ball bypassing the midfield

 

[Gordyola]

city are represented by some of the best solicitors around. If you want to worry yourself that they’ve forgotten to do something as basic as ask for the sanction to be suspended until the appeal has been heard, fill your boots.

I tried to inform you of the CAS procedure with respect to asking for a suspension of the punishment, you have chosen to ignore it. You then accuse me of being worried, when, you have no actual idea, I don't recall ever saying I am worried. I look for facts I dont assume which, is what you are doing

Aside from solicitors the club have also engaged a leading barrister to represent them at CAS, their attention to detail will be unrivalled. For the record I have absolute confidence both in the club officials and the legal firms they have engaged

 

[Chris in London]

I tried to inform you of the CAS procedure with respect to asking for a suspension of the punishment, you have chosen to ignore it. You then accuse me of being worried, when, you have no actual idea, I don't recall ever saying I am worried. I look for facts I dont assume which, is what you are doing

Aside from solicitors the club have also engaged a leading barrister to represent them at CAS, their attention to detail will be unrivalled. For the record I have absolute confidence both in the club officials and the legal firms they have engaged

then why the fuck are you stressing about whether they have forgotten to do something as basic as ask for a suspension pending determination of the appeal?