COVID-19 — Coronavirus

[gordondaviesmoustache]

99% of all species that existed over the previous “hundreds of millions of years” are already extinct mate and were before humans were able to draw graffiti on cave walls.

There’s never been a “natural balance” where every species existed in equilibrium.

Viruses have existed for over 1.5 billion years, long before our genetic ancestors had gills. They always have (and always will) evolve to find new hosts to pass their genes on. This present virus is a great deal less virulent than the one humans had to deal with 100 years ago when our population was 1/3rd of its present size - were they being punished harder than us for the Earth’s first global conflict? It’s not nature fighting back anymore than the Yorkshire floods a few years back were down to God punishing gays.

I know we, as humans, try and make sense natural phenomena. We try and find patterns and anthropomorphise things and events. We’re genetically predisposed to do so through millions of years of evolution.

This virus isn’t attacking us because it hates us, or is punishing us. It’s simply satisfying its own genetically evolved “instinct” (for want of a better word) to find new hosts. Hosts that will then allow it to replicate in a nice warm respiratory tract en masse before going and finding new hosts. To suggest anything else is all rather woo. It’s the same as believing in star signs or crystal energy.

Now obviously you can believe whatever you like, just as people can choose to believe the Earth is 6,000 years old and human life began in the garden of Eden, and other people can choose to think that those beliefs are neither evidence based nor rational.

No species has dominated the natural world like humans in the last two hundred years. Not even remotely close. Included in that is behaviour that greatly increases pollution in the air, the sea and the ground, is transforming the biological landscape of the planet and creating the ideal environment for a virus to spread. All these factors have been caused by our (relatively) recent dominance of the natural world. This, based on what went before it, is novel, unprecedented in fact. Within a vanishingly short period. So, man’s behaviour over the last two hundred years represents something that has never subsisted previously, and moreover those changes have occurred in the blink of an eye. Something’s changed. That is what I mean when I talk about the natural balance being disturbed. The planet is in unchartered waters in that regard and I believe that consequences flow from that.

So that is my ‘evidence’, and whilst you may not agree with it, it is still founded in rationality. I think that events like this and more unpredictable weather will become increasingly common going forward because of our undeniable impact upon the natural world. I hope I’m wrong, but what is the alternative? That we can dominate the natural world with impunity? Doubtful. I believe there are consequences to our impact on the natural world and this disease, even though it is caused by an unthinking pathogen simply looking for a host to replicate itself within, is an example of that.

The world we’ve created gave rise to this virus jumping from species to species and human behaviour in the modern world aided and abetted its spread at a speed that was inconceivable before industrialisation. In that sense we’ve ‘caused’ this and I believe if we continue to act in the same way as a species, then more is to follow.

 

[jay_mcfc]

I’m still very circumspect about the German figures and I’m unsure they’re classifying deaths from people with underlying health issues AND Covid-19 in the same way we are.

I’m going on a mission at the end of this year to analyse death numbers by covid v death numbers this year v average death numbers the past couple of years in each of the major countries.

Will be interesting to see if any are blatantly fudging numbers.

 

[SWP's back]

They say they are. Does look a bit suspect though. Mind you, Central Europe does seem to be doing quite well. Austria and the Czech Republic also have much lower death tolls than you would expect given the number of cases. That's why I wondered about different strains.

Yeah you’re more than likely right on the strains.

 

[George Hannah]

Worldometer is currently down, overloaded following news from Spain about the rise in infections and deaths there.

 

[Gabriel]

1) That’s why I would have them outlawed.

Think there is a genuine fear that outlawing the practice will simply drive it underground; they're used in traditional Chinese medicine as well, I believe. The Chinese authorities, and elsewhere, will probably have to make it strictly regulated, but that's hardly reassuring.

 

[SWP's back]

No species has dominated the natural world like humans in the last two hundred years. Not even remotely close. Included in that is behaviour that greatly increases pollution in the air, the sea and the ground, is transforming the biological landscape of the planet and creating the ideal environment for a virus to spread. All these factors have been caused by our (relatively) recent dominance of the natural world. This, based on what went before it, is novel, unprecedented in fact. Within a vanishingly short period. So, man’s behaviour over the last two hundred years represents something that has never subsisted previously, and moreover those changes have occurred in the blink of an eye. Something’s changed. That is what I mean when I talk about the natural balance being disturbed. The planet is in unchartered waters in that regard and I believe that consequences flow from that.

So that is my ‘evidence’, and whilst you may not agree with it, it is still founded in rationality. I think that events like this and more unpredictable weather will become increasingly common going forward because of our impact upon the natural world. I hope I’m wrong, but what is the alternative? That we can dominate the natural world with impunity? Doubtful. I believe there are consequences to our impact on the natural world and this disease, even though it is caused by an unthinking pathogen simply looking for a host to replicate itself within, is an example of that.

The world we’ve created gave rise to this virus jumping from species to species and human behaviour in the modern world aided and abetted its spread in a speed that was inconceivable before industrialisation. In that sense we’ve ‘caused’ this and I believe if we continue to act in the same way as a species, then more is to follow.

Nothing you say there is irrational and had you worded it that way in your first post, I wouldn’t have seen fit to disagree.

 

[meltonblue]

Yeah I get that.

But if 90k people have gone to hospital because they have a dry cough/fever/tightness in the chest etc but only 10% of them actually test positive it suggests that a lot of people at home who think they have it probably don’t.

Not that there won’t be tens of thousands more that do have it just not as many as some will think.

The crux is we need a lot more testing.

Exactly.

There’s a lot of people that think they had it a few months ago (as they had similar symptoms). I don’t because we would have seen the ICUs overloaded at that time too if they did. That and the contagion rate would have been far higher in other countries too if it did spread that far here that quickly.

There are a lot of illnesses with very similar symptoms. The situation as it is right now, everyone should think and act like they’ve never had it (or better still, they’ve got it and don’t want to transmit it to anyone else).

 

[Bazzmand Show]

Think there is a genuine fear that outlawing the practice will simply drive it underground; they're used in traditional Chinese medicine as well, I believe. The Chinese authorities, and elsewhere, will probably have to make it strictly regulated, but that's hardly reassuring.

It's not just outlawing them, it will take a consistent effort by the Chinese government to get the messaging out that they are barbaric and the 'Chinese Medicine' stuff is a load of shit.

Will likely take a generation, but that sort of prehistoric thinking can be flushed out eventually.

 

[BobKowalski]

I’m still very circumspect about the German figures and I’m unsure they’re classifying deaths from people with underlying health issues AND Covid-19 in the same way we are.

I have no idea if they are classifying deaths incorrectly but if they are that means they are distorting the data and that strikes me as irresponsible in the middle of an epidemic. How can you track the spread of the infection if you not recording it’s effect? If you don’t record or understate coved-19 deaths in any given region you will give the impression that the infection has been suppressed in that region causing authorities to relax restrictions.

 

[Bazzmand Show]

Exactly.

There’s a lot of people that think they had it a few months ago (as they had similar symptoms). I don’t because we would have seen the ICUs overloaded at that time too if they did. That and the contagion rate would have been far higher in other countries too if it did spread that far here that quickly.

There are a lot of illnesses with very similar symptoms. The situation as it is right now, everyone should think and act like they’ve never had it (or better still, they’ve got it and don’t want to transmit it to anyone else).

I do agree with this, it's concerning that a number of people are thinking back to times in Jan or even December now and believing that 'oh I've had it', because they had a cough....