The question, I guess, would be whether these would be voting or non voting shares...if for the sake of argument, they were voting shares, would the vehicle Sheikh Mansour chose to carry out the process, be able to open up the books including the Cayman side of things??
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UEFA FFP investigation - CAS decision to be announced Monday, 13th July 9.30am BST
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Prestwich_Blue
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I think the Glazers only have the voting shares.The question, I guess, would be whether these would be voting or non voting shares...if for the sake of argument, they were voting shares, would the vehicle Sheikh Mansour chose to carry out the process, be able to open up the books including the Cayman side of things??
Gordyola
Well-Known Member
As far as I know, the Bosman one is in limbo at the moment as it was bounced between the Belgian courts and the European one, both saying the other needed to hear the case. It's also impacted by the fact that there's no one among the appellants who can really claim to be a directly affected party. Of course, if we take over as the appellant, that all changes.
The last I recall, the ECJ told the Bosman Lawyer to go through the Belgian courts, exhaust that process & then appeal to the ECJ.
I know City didn't want to be the catalyst which brought down FFP & UEFA/G14, but in my mind we have absolutely nothing to lose by going nuclear against the lot of them.
Surely this course of action is on City's agenda?
ECJ Rejected the case
https://www.espn.co.uk/football/uef...ictory-in-financial-fair-play-court-challenge
oakiecokie
Well-Known Member
I love it when you talk dirty Colin.I think it is. In fact I'm sure it is. I completely understand the point @mayo31 made, as we've seen no concrete action from City as yet. But the mood in Abu Dhabi is very ugly. Their honour has been trashed and the good names of people like Khaldoon and the Sheikh have been dragged through the mud. We have Chinese investors, including those backed by the state. Both countries have very efficient intelligence services. The UAE & Israel are extremely close, which I've heard from a couple of very sensitive & reliable sources, as are the UAE and USA. Favours are being called in I'm told.
The owner of a Sports Marketing business which has no revenue coming in, or a load of heavily-indebted, downmarket malls, can't match that sort of power. This is just my idea but if I was Khaldoon or Sheikh Mansour, I'd be looking to buy the mortgages on those malls. And I'd be looking to see if they were supported by personal guarantees and, if not, I'd want those in place when the inevitable recession comes along. Because the only thing the Glazers have, which they could use for that, is their United shares. That's if they're not using them for that already, which I suspect they are. And then I'd call those loans in and, when they couldn't pay, I'd take the shares. And then the fun would really start.
Prestwich_Blue
Well-Known Member
That's not what happened. UEFA claimed it as an endorsement of FFP but the ruling put the onus back on the originating, Belgian court. Read this: https://www.asser.nl/SportsLaw/Blog...ttempt-to-pull-off-a-bosman-by-ben-van-rompuy
Colin, I just love your optimism and your contempt for our detractors. Hope some of it comes to fruition. I am not vindictive or vengeful by nature, but I passionately want us to be exhonorated in such a way that certain clubs are shown to be morally bankrupt. Please god.I think it is. In fact I'm sure it is. I completely understand the point @mayo31 made, as we've seen no concrete action from City as yet. But the mood in Abu Dhabi is very ugly. Their honour has been trashed and the good names of people like Khaldoon and the Sheikh have been dragged through the mud. We have Chinese investors, including those backed by the state. Both countries have very efficient intelligence services. The UAE & Israel are extremely close, which I've heard from a couple of very sensitive & reliable sources, as are the UAE and USA. Favours are being called in I'm told.
The owner of a Sports Marketing business which has no revenue coming in, or a load of heavily-indebted, downmarket malls, can't match that sort of power. This is just my idea but if I was Khaldoon or Sheikh Mansour, I'd be looking to buy the mortgages on those malls. And I'd be looking to see if they were supported by personal guarantees and, if not, I'd want those in place when the inevitable recession comes along. Because the only thing the Glazers have, which they could use for that, is their United shares. That's if they're not using them for that already, which I suspect they are. And then I'd call those loans in and, when they couldn't pay, I'd take the shares. And then the fun would really start.
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Correct. NYSE carries non voting shares, but buyers will want their divi.I think the Glazers only have the voting shares.
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Sometimes, all this stuff makes me feel I am in a lucid dream. Is it really happening or have I had one too many? Mind boggling. A world away from the regime of the Alexanders and other old fashioned gentlemen. To think I stood at the scoreboard end getting piss wet through and freezing cold as we struggled, mid div2, against Argyle and the might of Piper, just a few years ago. Well, about 56 to be exact.
eyalluvitt
Well-Known Member
Think they wanted to say yes as well but their carrier pigeon was shot down over Glossop. And then the horse went lame on the mail coach at the Cat and Fiddle.Thought we weren't a big club...
Fair play to Sheffield United who are letting the courts decide.
The others a just self-serving and I'm sure we'll remember this.
JGL07
Well-Known Member
There were plenty of dangerous stadiums apart from Heysel and had been for most of the previous hundred years. The loss of life at Ibrox (1902 and 1971), Burnden Park (1946), and subsequently Valley Parade (1985) and Hillsborough (1989) testify to that. None of the incidents could be directly related to hooliganism apart from Heysel.Well, it was 35 years ago and tbh football was a very different sport in the administrative and financial sense. It was in a deep depression following on from Bradford and Heysel within weeks of each other. Crowds plummeted over the next few seasons and I suspect there was a feeling that Liverpool FC should not be held totally accountable for the actions of some of their supporters, especially given the crumbling shambles that was the Heysel Stadium itself and the insane allocation of tickets that led to both sets of fans being in the same section of terracing. Also the ban on English clubs wasn't just down to Liverpool fans, there had been a succession of incidents in Europe over the years involving supporters of English clubs, Heysel was just the culmination of that.
Liverpool managed to create a media image of their fans as 'good natured scallies' that resulted in much of the blame being attributed to the state of the stadium. The fact that the stadium was falling apart and that there wasn't better segregation, is no excuse for Liverpool fans charging at police lines, breaking through and attacking the Juventus fans. In the stampede to escape, part of the perimeter wall collapsed. This allowed most to escape but 39 were crushed to death before the collapse.
I suppose that Liverpool could argue that it would not have happened if the supporters were separated by barbed wire and trenches (plus a few landmines) but it doesn't really wash.
Grassland Blue
Well-Known Member
Ah, the days when we struggled to complete one pass...Sometimes, all this stuff makes me feel I am in a lucid dream. Is it really happening or have I had one too many? Mind boggling. A world away from the regime of the Alexanders and other old fashioned gentlemen. To think I stood at the scoreboard end getting piss wet through and freezing cold as we struggled, mid div2, against Argyle and the might of Piper, just a few years ago. Well, about 56 to be exact.
Bill Walker
Well-Known Member
Didn't know there were Chinese in Glossop.Think they wanted to say yes as well but their carrier pigeon was shot down over Glossop. And then the horse went lame on the mail coach at the Cat and Fiddle.
lancs blue
Well-Known Member
I'm well aware of all that, I don't recall anyone at the time regarding the Liverpool fans as "good natured scallies" - certainly no-one like me who had been to Anfield as an away supporter - and nowhere in my post did I attempt to excuse their behaviour, I was attempting to place the disaster in the context of football as a whole at that time - and English football in particular - rather than from today's completely different perspective.Liverpool managed to create a media image of their fans as 'good natured scallies' that resulted in much of the blame being attributed to the state of the stadium. The fact that the stadium was falling apart and that there wasn't better segregation, is no excuse for Liverpool fans charging at police lines, breaking through and attacking the Juventus fans. In the stampede to escape, part of the perimeter wall collapsed. This allowed most to escape but 39 were crushed to death before the collapse.
With regard to the post I was replying to, the blanket ban on English clubs - rather than just Liverpool - also related to previous poor behaviour in Europe by other clubs' sets of fans since the early 70s, so any of the clubs who suffered from the ban trying to sue Liverpool because of it would have been hypocritical and almost certainly destined to fail.
Good old NormanSometimes, all this stuff makes me feel I am in a lucid dream. Is it really happening or have I had one too many? Mind boggling. A world away from the regime of the Alexanders and other old fashioned gentlemen. To think I stood at the scoreboard end getting piss wet through and freezing cold as we struggled, mid div2, against Argyle and the might of Piper, just a few years ago. Well, about 56 to be exact.
Glad to see you can remember what happened 56 years ago but probably like me, you can't remember what's happened 56 minutes ago ! !
nmc
Well-Known Member
Ceferin also stated that the Investigatory and Adjudicating panel were completely independent of UEFA.
To quote Mandy Rice-Davies... ‘he would say that wouldn’t he’!
Onholiday(somemightsay)
Well-Known Member
A similar method to handing Liverpool the Premier League title..............The UEFA crooks may go down the pools panel route to complete the greedy tw&ts league.
“Manchester City 0 Real Madrid 200”. away win.
Dave Ewing's Back 'eader
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Evidence, schmevidence. The G14 members aren't particularly bothered with evidence - they just want an outcome, a satisfactory conclusion which they hope the incompetent Swiss clowns are gonna provide - a free entry for their memebers to, and our exclusion from, the king's ransom they now call the CL!
nmc
Well-Known Member
just a thought, mate, thinking back to Gill being inducted to oversee FFP as the cartel didn’t believe UEFA were going far enough. Once inducted, things changed.
I really hope that the “favours being called in” that @Prestwich_Blue refers to includes exposing Gill for the corrupt little shit stirrer he is... would love to see him in the dock.
Dribble
Well-Known Member
Right, this is what I first read when I thought it was all over, but subsequent reports came out saying this interpretation of the ECJ findings was incorrect, & that Struani & the fans groups had to go back to the Belgian courts on specific points of order, exhaust that procedure, & then return to the ECJ.
That was my understanding at the time of the challenge, but as everyone said, it's all been quiet ever since. I'm still baffled how UEFA belief they can be given special status in respect to owner investment, when no other European sector can't????
Dave Ewing's Back 'eader
Well-Known Member
I think we've suspected for a long time that UEFA have very little to use against us, if anything, but this screams of the arrogance of a corrupt organisation which is sure it will never be called to account and so it can abrogate to itself the roles of prosecution, judge and jury with absolutely no concern whatsoever for due process. It's the same arrogance that leads to eight PL clubs announcing that they don't need any evidence because they know City have been breaking the rules all the time and so due process isn't necessary and appeals are a waste of time. Staggering. But City will show that they can and will be held to account and they will find it very painful.
I wonder if this 'knowledge' is based on anything tangible or does it just ride on Wenger's oft repeated phrase of 'financial doping'! Arsène said it, so it must be true!
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