Covid 19: Sino global relations

Ban-jani said:
You’ve missed my point about the economy in China.

Like us, they didn’t act quick enough because acting would undoubtedly ruin the economy.

We waited and waited because the measures needed were very strong and economic suicide. It was hard to do whilst it wasn’t ravaging Britain.

Similarly the CCP didn’t want to kill their economy but they covered it up for weeks and weeks, burying their heads and were far more sinister in their denial.

I understand it, I just don’t forgive them for it as it will eventually cost hundreds of thousands of lives.

You’re underestimating the CCP if you think the local government covered it up over the CCP. There’s no way they didn’t know in December and there’s no way they haven’t lied, hugely, since.

I’ve no doubt the West weren’t naive and slow mate, very much so too.
Click to expand...

Like I said, that’s a false narrative though that doesn’t make logical sense. You’re saying they are waited and waited but they locked down their country after 17 deaths, given it originated there and so they had no other evidence to go off, that isn’t far into a virus cycle at all. The CCP did know in December, they informed the WHO in December. The studies there were done by western scientists too remember, who the CCP invited in in early January when there had been one death.

If you think they were negligent in waiting, then logically you must think we were far far worse with our actions then in terms of the same. It does need to be reiterated, we still aren’t at the same level of lockdown even now as they were. They chose “economic suicide” far quicker that we have done and our indecisiveness in doing so will probably lead to an even bigger one.
 
China was once the cradle of the coronavirus pandemic but it has bounced back with astonishing speed, writes EDWARD LUCAS as he reveals the country may have won the war for global supremacy as well

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...virus-pandemic-bounced-astonishing-speed.html

Extract below stood out for me as being very accurate. They can actually follow through with what Russia can’t due to their economic model.

As Charles Parton, once the top ‘China-watcher’ in the British government, argues in the latest edition of Standpoint magazine, we do not have a strategy for dealing with China. But China has a strategy for dealing with us.

For years the Beijing regime has been playing divide and rule against a squabbling and self-indulgent West.
 
Marvin said:
We have trillions of bacteria in every g of gut content, and alongside the bacteria are billions of viral particles. You, like the Chinese, eat animals and plants to survive. Animals and plants are just one branch of an extraordinary interconnected web of life. The vertical inheritance that Darwin envisaged turned out to be a very simplified version. The branches of life are connected both vertically and horizontally (primarily by viruses).

Contrary to the old testament modern life owes its current existence to evolutionary biology and something that disgusts you is actually intrinsic to your very being. The cells in your heart and skeletal muscle contain tiny sub-units called mitochondria which are thought to have originated from a process of endosymbiosis whereby one prokaryotic cell ingested another. Likewise plants owe their green colour to chloroplasts which are another vestige of an ancient ingested prokaryote.

Keeping animals together in close proximity isn't a good idea if you want to stop viral transfer between species but China are not alone in this. We domesticate animals. Mankind has domesticated animals for tens of thousands of years. Open your curtains at dusk and you might if you are lucky see bats. Walk in the countryside and you'll see bat-boxes in the trees, and bat-droppings on the ground if you look closely. You can see where this is going.

Bats are not the only animal that hosts viruses. All animals do so. The focus is on bats because they have a powerful immune system which makes them ideal hosts for coronaviruses but the epidemic could just as well have come from influenza, or in another time Yersinia pestis the bacteria carried by rats that produces the black death in humans (in fact black death survives to this day). No doubt you'll tell me the rats came from China.

The virus will be stopped by human collaboration and good science, not by prejudice.
Click to expand...

I agree with every word mate but it’s about mitigating risk and their practices over there are playing with fire.

I said in another post that a pandemic can start anywhere but more have started in China than anywhere else combined since the millennium and the reason is that they have bad habits.

Of course focusing on this now won’t stop this virus, it’s too late but if the world shows a collective disapproval to them, it will help to stop the next one!
 
meltonblue said:
Like I said, that’s a false narrative though that doesn’t make logical sense. You’re saying they are waited and waited but they locked down their country after 17 deaths, given it originated there and so they had no other evidence to go off, that isn’t far into a virus cycle at all. The CCP did know in December, they informed the WHO in December. The studies there were done by western scientists too remember, who the CCP invited in in early January when there had been one death.

If you think they were negligent in waiting, then logically you must think we were far far worse with our actions then in terms of the same. It does need to be reiterated, we still aren’t at the same level of lockdown even now as they were. They chose “economic suicide” far quicker that we have done and our indecisiveness in doing so will probably lead to an even bigger one.
Click to expand...

My entire point is they waited a month to admit what this thing was and there’s no way it’d only killed 17 people when they locked down, the population in Hubei don’t believe that.

They tried to cover to it up and lie but it got out of control and they had to act, but yet they still covered it up.

The West were certainly negligent in not acting quick enough but there’s a difference between incompetence and lying to everyone and the WHO.
 
Ban-jani said:
My entire point is they waited a month to admit what this thing was and there’s no way it’d only killed 17 people when they locked down, the population in Hubei don’t believe that.

They tried to cover to it up and lie but it got out of control and they had to act, but yet they still covered it up.

The West were certainly negligent in not acting quick enough but there’s a difference between incompetence and lying to everyone and the WHO.
Click to expand...
There's another thread for this, and you know it.
 
Ban-jani said:
I agree with every word mate but it’s about mitigating risk and their practices over there are playing with fire.

I said in another post that a pandemic can start anywhere but more have started in China than anywhere else combined since the millennium and the reason is that they have bad habits.

Of course focusing on this now won’t stop this virus, it’s too late but if the world shows a collective disapproval to them, it will help to stop the next one!
Click to expand...
BCG was started by farmers here feeding cows to cows.

Get fucked with your racism
 
1.618034 said:
Yeah, but no one else is interested in that, so more chance of bites in here.
Click to expand...

Yeah I’m only here for bites.

Not here because I enjoy discussing the issues at hand.

Another accusation of being a WUM, brilliant.
 
I started out to reply to this string and got carried away... (so blogged the below, but after I'd written the below on here)


Is the grass greener on the other side? Is there a huge chasm in cultures? Is the so-called red menace meddling with the international community? Has America’s time as a world leader gone? Is China like Marmite in that you either love it or hate it?

I’m in China – and the only TV station I can see reporting much about the world is CGTN. OFCOM have ongoing problems with them. The state TV channels, CCTV (seriously) intended CGTN to tell the story of China and add a Chinese view on world news – with much culture mixed in. They’re entitled to their views. Let’s face it, the BBC often sugarcoats and chooses its own spins. Just like Murdoch’s empire, CNN and Fox News. Oasis had the album out, Don’t Believe the Truth, and that’s what we need to do more. Think on our sins, multiply it, and add a dash of common sense. Some of the opinion pieces are clearly labelled as opinions written by a mix of western and Asian correspondents. Many like Tom Fowdy may have been persecuted for his beliefs in years gone by, by the British government, just for the connection to the red side of politics. Has a pool of talent been forced to join the other side? Has the media industry become so one-sided that it cannot handle difference?

Since I landed on March the 26th, I have seen nothing but great organisation and techniques to prevent a rebound of infection and to suppress the outbreak. China has an aim of zero new cases. It’s since banned foreigners from entering China and steered one airline per country to one airport. Its returning citizens, like myself and other foreigners before them, are placed into strict 14-day quarantine hotels. We’re all monitored closely and any sign of trouble, will lead to a hospital stay and appropriate treatment. Lockdowns here have mostly been withdrawn and bit by bit, things are opening, even the epicentre of Hubei and Wuhan. There’s a fear of a second wave and officials are gradually easing things back to normality. The world can only watch, as few nations are close to this re-opening of a freer society. What day of quarantine am I actually on now?

It is worth noting that pre-COVID-19 outbreak there were few, if any, official TV or media outlets that had social media accounts. There weren’t many suppliers of personal protection equipment either, and now there are countless factories churning these out, so much so that the government in China is reacting to standardise and improve qualities by maintaining licensed products. As there is a gap in the market, and freedom permits, these things are normal.

It is really easy to bash China and to think about what their gains are, but right now, I’d have more faith in China than the stumbling bundle of turd that is Boris Johnson and his cronies. I wouldn’t look at Team America – World Police, because under the helm of Donny Trump, you’re more likely to get service from the living dead. As one nation tries to fly a flag of hope by being the only nationals to climb Mount Everest in 2020, the other nation mixes rhetoric in a roundabout of confusing advice to its citizens. Still at least ‘merica has the Cornish pasty.

Now, China is helping countless nations, including the USA. Information is being shared from the scientist community, and on the surface, it appears China is being more open than ever before. It does have damage limitation to deal with domestically. What nation doesn’t?! On the flipside there is a huge distrust within the west. Algeria calls China ‘true friend’; doctors flew to Italy; Ireland via Huawei; and the list goes on. What’re your thoughts?

Cats may be carriers and infected, according to Huazhong Agricultural University and another team led by Shi Zhengli from the Wuhan Institute of Virology. 5G is getting the blame. Such a drug is the known cure, because Trump said so. Stop it! What really worries me are the conspiracy theories and the insane amount of dirt being thrown around. It wasn’t made in any military or civilian laboratory. Can we see the wood for the trees?

Reports of Nigerian forests being logged for gain, winning new followers, or reporting on Xi Jinping’s whereabouts can be spun by any media, in any nation. Chairman Mao, once said something along the lines of, “Making the foreign serve China” but has any western nation not had its fair serving of other nations overseas? More to the point, right now, internationalism is rife and if you tour any major city in Asia, you’ll find Union Flags, ‘merica fast food chains (the known ‘merican embassy being McD’s). The commercialisation and rapid imposing of English language and trade links galore cannot be hidden. We’re interconnected like never before. Why can’t China have a bit of that? Or India? Brazil too? The whole world is over-populated and resource is limited. Competition and clashes are inevitable. Have you always got on with your neighbours? Or, a tax-backed Liverpool FC?

Either side of the world, a nation will have an ideological spin. Many nations look after themselves and preach to their own audience, or use missions, and state backed councils to drive their cause. Some criticise and deconstruct themselves to allow evolution. Many are globally reachable. China is here, and here to stay. It may offer censorship and avoid certain topics, but now it is beyond the Great Wall, and finding a home alongside The Daily Mail, South China Morning Post, and The Telegraph. A once strictly controlled media now has a place within the free press. That’s an already muddle up and messed up free press controlled by gaining parties and sectors with vested interests. So, is there anything new to skewed news angles?

There are advantages and disadvantages to different ways of living. There are pros and cons for traditions. The benefits and losses of one side of the story may be a contrast to the other. One gain opposes one setback. A profit and reward could seem great, but what about the loss? A desirable plus in one set of words, could mean a minus and negativity over the way. Are you for or are you against thinking about each side of an argument? What you choose to believe and choose to understand is up to you. Just don’t be a knobhead.

In closing, I recommend everyone reads and enjoys Laura Gao’s comic take entitled, The Wuhan I Know. Put aside ignorance and really enjoy it. Its Manchester’s twin city. When this all blows over, I will visit Wuhan. Why not?

Just don’t read The Sun!
 
acton28 said:
I started out to reply to this string and got carried away... (so blogged the below, but after I'd written the below on here)


Is the grass greener on the other side? Is there a huge chasm in cultures? Is the so-called red menace meddling with the international community? Has America’s time as a world leader gone? Is China like Marmite in that you either love it or hate it?

I’m in China – and the only TV station I can see reporting much about the world is CGTN. OFCOM have ongoing problems with them. The state TV channels, CCTV (seriously) intended CGTN to tell the story of China and add a Chinese view on world news – with much culture mixed in. They’re entitled to their views. Let’s face it, the BBC often sugarcoats and chooses its own spins. Just like Murdoch’s empire, CNN and Fox News. Oasis had the album out, Don’t Believe the Truth, and that’s what we need to do more. Think on our sins, multiply it, and add a dash of common sense. Some of the opinion pieces are clearly labelled as opinions written by a mix of western and Asian correspondents. Many like Tom Fowdy may have been persecuted for his beliefs in years gone by, by the British government, just for the connection to the red side of politics. Has a pool of talent been forced to join the other side? Has the media industry become so one-sided that it cannot handle difference?

Since I landed on March the 26th, I have seen nothing but great organisation and techniques to prevent a rebound of infection and to suppress the outbreak. China has an aim of zero new cases. It’s since banned foreigners from entering China and steered one airline per country to one airport. Its returning citizens, like myself and other foreigners before them, are placed into strict 14-day quarantine hotels. We’re all monitored closely and any sign of trouble, will lead to a hospital stay and appropriate treatment. Lockdowns here have mostly been withdrawn and bit by bit, things are opening, even the epicentre of Hubei and Wuhan. There’s a fear of a second wave and officials are gradually easing things back to normality. The world can only watch, as few nations are close to this re-opening of a freer society. What day of quarantine am I actually on now?

It is worth noting that pre-COVID-19 outbreak there were few, if any, official TV or media outlets that had social media accounts. There weren’t many suppliers of personal protection equipment either, and now there are countless factories churning these out, so much so that the government in China is reacting to standardise and improve qualities by maintaining licensed products. As there is a gap in the market, and freedom permits, these things are normal.

It is really easy to bash China and to think about what their gains are, but right now, I’d have more faith in China than the stumbling bundle of turd that is Boris Johnson and his cronies. I wouldn’t look at Team America – World Police, because under the helm of Donny Trump, you’re more likely to get service from the living dead. As one nation tries to fly a flag of hope by being the only nationals to climb Mount Everest in 2020, the other nation mixes rhetoric in a roundabout of confusing advice to its citizens. Still at least ‘merica has the Cornish pasty.

Now, China is helping countless nations, including the USA. Information is being shared from the scientist community, and on the surface, it appears China is being more open than ever before. It does have damage limitation to deal with domestically. What nation doesn’t?! On the flipside there is a huge distrust within the west. Algeria calls China ‘true friend’; doctors flew to Italy; Ireland via Huawei; and the list goes on. What’re your thoughts?

Cats may be carriers and infected, according to Huazhong Agricultural University and another team led by Shi Zhengli from the Wuhan Institute of Virology. 5G is getting the blame. Such a drug is the known cure, because Trump said so. Stop it! What really worries me are the conspiracy theories and the insane amount of dirt being thrown around. It wasn’t made in any military or civilian laboratory. Can we see the wood for the trees?

Reports of Nigerian forests being logged for gain, winning new followers, or reporting on Xi Jinping’s whereabouts can be spun by any media, in any nation. Chairman Mao, once said something along the lines of, “Making the foreign serve China” but has any western nation not had its fair serving of other nations overseas? More to the point, right now, internationalism is rife and if you tour any major city in Asia, you’ll find Union Flags, ‘merica fast food chains (the known ‘merican embassy being McD’s). The commercialisation and rapid imposing of English language and trade links galore cannot be hidden. We’re interconnected like never before. Why can’t China have a bit of that? Or India? Brazil too? The whole world is over-populated and resource is limited. Competition and clashes are inevitable. Have you always got on with your neighbours? Or, a tax-backed Liverpool FC?

Either side of the world, a nation will have an ideological spin. Many nations look after themselves and preach to their own audience, or use missions, and state backed councils to drive their cause. Some criticise and deconstruct themselves to allow evolution. Many are globally reachable. China is here, and here to stay. It may offer censorship and avoid certain topics, but now it is beyond the Great Wall, and finding a home alongside The Daily Mail, South China Morning Post, and The Telegraph. A once strictly controlled media now has a place within the free press. That’s an already muddle up and messed up free press controlled by gaining parties and sectors with vested interests. So, is there anything new to skewed news angles?

There are advantages and disadvantages to different ways of living. There are pros and cons for traditions. The benefits and losses of one side of the story may be a contrast to the other. One gain opposes one setback. A profit and reward could seem great, but what about the loss? A desirable plus in one set of words, could mean a minus and negativity over the way. Are you for or are you against thinking about each side of an argument? What you choose to believe and choose to understand is up to you. Just don’t be a knobhead.

In closing, I recommend everyone reads and enjoys Laura Gao’s comic take entitled, The Wuhan I Know. Put aside ignorance and really enjoy it. Its Manchester’s twin city. When this all blows over, I will visit Wuhan. Why not?

Just don’t read The Sun!
Click to expand...

Has this been reported there at all
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/harvard-university-professor-and-two-chinese-nationals-
 
Marvin said:
We have trillions of bacteria in every g of gut content, and alongside the bacteria are billions of viral particles. You, like the Chinese, eat animals and plants to survive. Animals and plants are just one branch of an extraordinary interconnected web of life. The vertical inheritance that Darwin envisaged turned out to be a very simplified version. The branches of life are connected both vertically and horizontally (primarily by viruses).

Contrary to the old testament modern life owes its current existence to evolutionary biology and something that disgusts you is actually intrinsic to your very being. The cells in your heart and skeletal muscle contain tiny sub-units called mitochondria which are thought to have originated from a process of endosymbiosis whereby one prokaryotic cell ingested another. Likewise plants owe their green colour to chloroplasts which are another vestige of an ancient ingested prokaryote.

Keeping animals together in close proximity isn't a good idea if you want to stop viral transfer between species but China are not alone in this. We domesticate animals. Mankind has domesticated animals for tens of thousands of years. Open your curtains at dusk and you might if you are lucky see bats. Walk in the countryside and you'll see bat-boxes in the trees, and bat-droppings on the ground if you look closely. You can see where this is going.

Bats are not the only animal that hosts viruses. All animals do so. The focus is on bats because they have a powerful immune system which makes them ideal hosts for coronaviruses but the epidemic could just as well have come from influenza, or in another time Yersinia pestis the bacteria carried by rats that produces the black death in humans (in fact black death survives to this day). No doubt you'll tell me the rats came from China.

The virus will be stopped by human collaboration and good science, not by prejudice.
Click to expand...
Doffs cap...
 
acton28 said:
I started out to reply to this string and got carried away... (so blogged the below, but after I'd written the below on here)


Is the grass greener on the other side? Is there a huge chasm in cultures? Is the so-called red menace meddling with the international community? Has America’s time as a world leader gone? Is China like Marmite in that you either love it or hate it?

I’m in China – and the only TV station I can see reporting much about the world is CGTN. OFCOM have ongoing problems with them. The state TV channels, CCTV (seriously) intended CGTN to tell the story of China and add a Chinese view on world news – with much culture mixed in. They’re entitled to their views. Let’s face it, the BBC often sugarcoats and chooses its own spins. Just like Murdoch’s empire, CNN and Fox News. Oasis had the album out, Don’t Believe the Truth, and that’s what we need to do more. Think on our sins, multiply it, and add a dash of common sense. Some of the opinion pieces are clearly labelled as opinions written by a mix of western and Asian correspondents. Many like Tom Fowdy may have been persecuted for his beliefs in years gone by, by the British government, just for the connection to the red side of politics. Has a pool of talent been forced to join the other side? Has the media industry become so one-sided that it cannot handle difference?

Since I landed on March the 26th, I have seen nothing but great organisation and techniques to prevent a rebound of infection and to suppress the outbreak. China has an aim of zero new cases. It’s since banned foreigners from entering China and steered one airline per country to one airport. Its returning citizens, like myself and other foreigners before them, are placed into strict 14-day quarantine hotels. We’re all monitored closely and any sign of trouble, will lead to a hospital stay and appropriate treatment. Lockdowns here have mostly been withdrawn and bit by bit, things are opening, even the epicentre of Hubei and Wuhan. There’s a fear of a second wave and officials are gradually easing things back to normality. The world can only watch, as few nations are close to this re-opening of a freer society. What day of quarantine am I actually on now?

It is worth noting that pre-COVID-19 outbreak there were few, if any, official TV or media outlets that had social media accounts. There weren’t many suppliers of personal protection equipment either, and now there are countless factories churning these out, so much so that the government in China is reacting to standardise and improve qualities by maintaining licensed products. As there is a gap in the market, and freedom permits, these things are normal.

It is really easy to bash China and to think about what their gains are, but right now, I’d have more faith in China than the stumbling bundle of turd that is Boris Johnson and his cronies. I wouldn’t look at Team America – World Police, because under the helm of Donny Trump, you’re more likely to get service from the living dead. As one nation tries to fly a flag of hope by being the only nationals to climb Mount Everest in 2020, the other nation mixes rhetoric in a roundabout of confusing advice to its citizens. Still at least ‘merica has the Cornish pasty.

Now, China is helping countless nations, including the USA. Information is being shared from the scientist community, and on the surface, it appears China is being more open than ever before. It does have damage limitation to deal with domestically. What nation doesn’t?! On the flipside there is a huge distrust within the west. Algeria calls China ‘true friend’; doctors flew to Italy; Ireland via Huawei; and the list goes on. What’re your thoughts?

Cats may be carriers and infected, according to Huazhong Agricultural University and another team led by Shi Zhengli from the Wuhan Institute of Virology. 5G is getting the blame. Such a drug is the known cure, because Trump said so. Stop it! What really worries me are the conspiracy theories and the insane amount of dirt being thrown around. It wasn’t made in any military or civilian laboratory. Can we see the wood for the trees?

Reports of Nigerian forests being logged for gain, winning new followers, or reporting on Xi Jinping’s whereabouts can be spun by any media, in any nation. Chairman Mao, once said something along the lines of, “Making the foreign serve China” but has any western nation not had its fair serving of other nations overseas? More to the point, right now, internationalism is rife and if you tour any major city in Asia, you’ll find Union Flags, ‘merica fast food chains (the known ‘merican embassy being McD’s). The commercialisation and rapid imposing of English language and trade links galore cannot be hidden. We’re interconnected like never before. Why can’t China have a bit of that? Or India? Brazil too? The whole world is over-populated and resource is limited. Competition and clashes are inevitable. Have you always got on with your neighbours? Or, a tax-backed Liverpool FC?

Either side of the world, a nation will have an ideological spin. Many nations look after themselves and preach to their own audience, or use missions, and state backed councils to drive their cause. Some criticise and deconstruct themselves to allow evolution. Many are globally reachable. China is here, and here to stay. It may offer censorship and avoid certain topics, but now it is beyond the Great Wall, and finding a home alongside The Daily Mail, South China Morning Post, and The Telegraph. A once strictly controlled media now has a place within the free press. That’s an already muddle up and messed up free press controlled by gaining parties and sectors with vested interests. So, is there anything new to skewed news angles?

There are advantages and disadvantages to different ways of living. There are pros and cons for traditions. The benefits and losses of one side of the story may be a contrast to the other. One gain opposes one setback. A profit and reward could seem great, but what about the loss? A desirable plus in one set of words, could mean a minus and negativity over the way. Are you for or are you against thinking about each side of an argument? What you choose to believe and choose to understand is up to you. Just don’t be a knobhead.

In closing, I recommend everyone reads and enjoys Laura Gao’s comic take entitled, The Wuhan I Know. Put aside ignorance and really enjoy it. Its Manchester’s twin city. When this all blows over, I will visit Wuhan. Why not?

Just don’t read The Sun!
Click to expand...
I am glad that someone has pointed out that Wuhan is Manchesters' twin City in China.
How many posters on here knew that?
I visited Wuhan in 2004, after travelling down the Yangtse from Chongqing to Yichang, (before the water level was raised fully, submerging many small villages in the process).
The three gorges dam is a magnificent piece of engineering and I would recommend anyone to visit the area.
 
China ‘ramping up’ the supplies to the UK. They have built new factories to meet the worldwide demand. Note the ‘UK and China - United we stand’ branding.

 
Grassland Blue said:
I am glad that someone has pointed out that Wuhan is Manchesters' twin City in China.
How many posters on here knew that?
I visited Wuhan in 2004, after travelling down the Yangtse from Chongqing to Yichang, (before the water level was raised fully, submerging many small villages in the process).
The three gorges dam is a magnificent piece of engineering and I would recommend anyone to visit the area.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't go there now - massive visa restrictions...

George Hannah said:
Has this been reported there at all
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/harvard-university-professor-and-two-chinese-nationals-
Click to expand...

I didn't see enough news to know. It certainly hasn't been mentioned.

The BBC ran a series called China: A New World Order and most of that gets little coverage here. Worth a gander.
Think they mention graphene and Manchester in there somewhere. Knowledge is power. I'm sure Britain and the US do the same. Manchester is definitely on the radar. Poach some knowledge, then go watch the mighty City, good day out that...

https://twitter.com/ukinchina

Like every country and most big corporations, there is good and bad. Good to see so many flights bound for the UK with ventilators and PPE though. I'm surprised how many people (not businesses or profiteers) are sending PPE for help. A friend sent my family and friends some. I asked how much I needed to pay. They wouldn't accept it. There's a weird sense of camaraderie right now.
 
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