Covid 19: Sino global relations

west didsblue said:
Everyone with a brain should have distrusted the figures coming from China, Russia and other autocratic nations.

Even democracies such as the Americans and ourselves are not providing the full picture due to inadequate testing and a reluctance to attribute Covid as a factor in many non-hospital deaths. There seems to be far too much anecdotal evidence of this to dismiss it.
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I have a (limited) degree of sympathy for this position. An acquaintance of mine had an elderly aunt who sadly died at the beginning of the outbreak. She was suffering from terminal cancer anyway and had literally days if not hours left to live. When she died she was tested and proved positive for the virus. However because her cancer was terminal she wasn’t included in the Covid 19 death figures.

So if, like in that case, the virus finishes off somebody who was at death’s door anyway, I can see why you would not attribute that death to the virus. Don’t get me wrong, I can see why you would, but it seems to be an issue on which reasonable people can take different views without either being wrong.

The problem is that it makes comparisons between us and Italy or Spain say completely meaningless because we are comparing apples and pears. If Italy reported figures on the same basis we do, their numbers would be much lower. If we reported on the same basis Italy does, our numbers would be much higher. It’s a bit like saying the temperature is 71 in Italy but only 21 here without saying that one temperature is Fahrenheit, the other Celsius. Without that crucial information it’s a meaningless comparison.
 
Chris in London said:
I have a (limited) degree of sympathy for this position. An acquaintance of mine had an elderly aunt who sadly died at the beginning of the outbreak. She was suffering from terminal cancer anyway and had literally days if not hours left to live. When she died she was tested and proved positive for the virus. However because her cancer was terminal she wasn’t included in the Covid 19 death figures.

So if, like in that case, the virus finishes off somebody who was at death’s door anyway, I can see why you would not attribute that death to the virus. Don’t get me wrong, I can see why you would, but it seems to be an issue on which reasonable people can take different views without either being wrong.

The problem is that it makes comparisons between us and Italy or Spain say completely meaningless because we are comparing apples and pears. If Italy reported figures on the same basis we do, their numbers would be much lower. If we reported on the same basis Italy does, our numbers would be much higher. It’s a bit like saying the temperature is 71 in Italy but only 21 here without saying that one temperature is Fahrenheit, the other Celsius. Without that crucial information it’s a meaningless comparison.
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Can't disagree with any of that. The statistics for this pandemic will be argued about for years and we'll never know the true global picture.

What we do know is that it's pretty bad. We wouldn't be building huge temporary hospitals and morgues if it was just finishing a few people off early who were dying anyway.
 
This is from a Chinese human rights activist so will have an axe to grind and I don't know if this internal whatsapp exchange from Zhang Xuandong, owner of Haofeng Electronic Technology Co. in China (Forehead thermometer producer) has been verified as being his comments but pretty nasty if true.

 
AlgarveBlu said:
This is from a Chinese human rights activist so will have an axe to grind and I don't know if this internal whatsapp exchange from Zhang Xuandong, owner of Haofeng Electronic Technology Co. in China (Forehead thermometer producer) has been verified as being his comments but pretty nasty if true.

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Scientists across the world are unanimous in thinking this was natural and not purposefully made in a lab, so that rules out conspiracy theories that China or anyone else did this on purpose.

However I think I’m fairly confident that they’ll use this current situation to get one over on America.

I just hope the world rallies behind the US.
 
Ban-jani said:
Scientists across the world are unanimous in thinking this was natural and not purposefully made in a lab, so that rules out conspiracy theories that China or anyone else did this on purpose.

However I think I’m fairly confident that they’ll use this current situation to get one over on America.

I just hope the world rallies behind the US.
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I wasn’t suggesting it was made in lab? all the scientific data proves that this is a zoonotic virus. no tinfoil in my house mate :-)

if you’re referring to above tweet it’s in reference to heat thermometers being tampered with and manufactured and exported out to the U.S . Surely has to be just a tasteless joke by the owner with work colleagues.
 
AlgarveBlu said:
I wasn’t suggesting it was made in lab? all the scientific data proves that this is a zoonotic virus. no tinfoil in my house mate :-)

if you’re referring to above tweet it’s in reference to heat thermometers being tampered with and manufactured and exported out to the U.S . Surely has to be just a tasteless joke by the owner with work colleagues.
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Yeah I wasn’t saying you were bud, just going through my own internal conversations.
 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...ations-about-trump-yet-another-bogus-defense/

There always was going to be push back in some of the media against what is perceived to be deflection tactics. It’s worrying that this is the battle ground now, not just at a global level but a domestic one too. There’s parallels to post 9/11 all over the place and its going to need to be managed very carefully. I think even Trump might realise that himself with the toning down of some of the rhetoric recently.
 
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