Covid 19: Sino global relations

[AlgarveBlu]

Virtually all the recent killer viruses have emanated from China, this recent scourge is causing economic shock that will be felt worldwide for some time to come. I would imagine many governments may be preparing a response, we'll see. It has certainly put that state's obnoxious government in the spotlight, and with any luck, the disgusting practices that caused the outbreak, may be curtailed, if nothing else.

It's not all bad news for them though as they have finally managed to get the whole of Hong Kong to get off the streets.

 

[meltonblue]

Just to be clear, the chinese government is not sending out dodgy equipment, I've seen that posted a few times now.

The Dutch and Spanish governments bought them off unlicensed manufacturers who were not on the chinese governments approved lists. They were actually advised not to buy from them.The PR move is actually in the opposite direction with that one.

The Government itself is doing a lot of PR, that's more around sending medical teams though.

 

[BobKowalski]

Just to be clear, the chinese government is not sending out dodgy equipment, I've seen that posted a few times now.

The Dutch and Spanish governments bought them off unlicensed manufacturers who were not on the chinese governments approved lists. They were actually advised not to buy from them.The PR move is actually in the opposite direction with that one.

The Government itself is doing a lot of PR, that's more around sending medical teams though.

I missed that one. Thanks for the info.

 

[Ban-jani]

I'm not comfortable with the blame China narrative. I have a strong suspicion it comes from the same right wing social media sorces that promote Trump and similar brands of populist BS.

There seems to be a couple of criticisms:

1, they didn't warn others soon enough - clearly not valid as western countries did nothing for weeks anyway.

It’s true the West were slow but the chain reaction was caused through China lying for weeks that it wasn’t transmissible between humans, which not only allowed the situation to get out of control, it probably killed tens of thousands of Chinese citizens.

Actively misleading other nations and the WHO has done more damage to the global crisis than anything another nation has done.

We were too slow though and letting people enter the UK from China and Italy, without quarantining and without testing was akin to suicide.

2, the numbers are not accurate - Same everywhere.

In the UK they have admitted, doing so very early, they’re so far only counting hospital deaths due to the logistics of testing those at home.

The reports on China is that they’re purposefully covered up 90%+ of deaths and true figure is 14-15 times higher than what they’ve said, continues to grow and their population are still in danger.

They’re still lying when they’re weeks and weeks ahead of everyone else.

It’s the like comparing speeding by 5mph to mass murder.

3, they are sending out dodgy equipment - China has made itself by producing vast quantities of often low quality goods, western companies have made $bns out of importing it and selling it. The quality issue has always been there - they are a low standards economy. What do you expect.

This one is the least of my concern as I actually doubt it’s the Communist Party’s fault.

Beyond the above I don't see what they have done to deserve criticism.

I’ve responded to a few points above mate.

 

[meltonblue]

To be fair, I've already told you they didn't mislead the WHO though, particularly not centrally, I'm not sure why you keep saying that? I also don't see how you can quantify how that was responsible for the inactivity of anyone during February, particularly as it's so obviously deflection by some of the western governments.

Whilst I don't think their numbers are accurate, the reports they purposefully covered up 90% of deaths is as disingenuous as anything China have done themselves too. I'm not sure unnamed scientists saying that to unnamed government sources can class as being worthy of being trusted either.

Bear in mind they changed their reporting of deaths midway through their cycle to include pneumonia as well as confirmed COVID cases on the instruction of the central government, that's the opposite of something someone looking to downplay the numbers would do. The provinces might have done though.

 

[Ban-jani]

To be fair, I've already told you they didn't mislead the WHO though, particularly not centrally, I'm not sure why you keep saying that? I also don't see how you can quantify how that was responsible for the inactivity of anyone during February, particularly as it's so obviously deflection by some of the western governments.

Whilst I don't think their numbers are accurate, the reports they purposefully covered up 90% of deaths is as disingenuous as anything China have done themselves too. I'm not sure unnamed scientists saying that to unnamed government sources can class as being worthy of being trusted either.

Bear in mind they changed their reporting of deaths midway through their cycle to include pneumonia as well as confirmed COVID cases on the instruction of the central government, that's the opposite of something someone looking to downplay the numbers would do. The provinces might have done though.

They either mislead the WHO or the WHO are in on it with them. Japan and Taiwan think the latter, I want to give the WHO the benefit of the doubt but there certainly are question marks and it’s clear the WHO ignored Taiwan in December.

It doesn’t. The West were sleepwalking and gambling that they didn’t need to affect their economies in the hope it would be eventually controlled and tamed, like SARS -1, it wasn’t and we’re all paying the price.

They should have grounded flights immediately and spent fortunes on testing equipment and PPE.

They didn’t, we fucked it.

14-15 times more is what’s being leaked. It’s an incredible number even if partly true.

Well I trust Taiwan and Japan over China, especially because of what’s happened. Taiwan said they knew from colleagues (doctors) on the ground in Wuhan and it’s true they wrote to the WHO to express concern, which was subsequently ignored.

Taiwan have no reason to lie, they’re currently trying to get onside with China.

When this all comes out in the wash things will be very ugly.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

Anyone know if Sun Jihai is OK?

 

[AlgarveBlu]

To be fair, I've already told you they didn't mislead the WHO though, particularly not centrally, I'm not sure why you keep saying that? I also don't see how you can quantify how that was responsible for the inactivity of anyone during February, particularly as it's so obviously deflection by some of the western governments.

Whilst I don't think their numbers are accurate, the reports they purposefully covered up 90% of deaths is as disingenuous as anything China have done themselves too. I'm not sure unnamed scientists saying that to unnamed government sources can class as being worthy of being trusted either.

Bear in mind they changed their reporting of deaths midway through their cycle to include pneumonia as well as confirmed COVID cases on the instruction of the central government, that's the opposite of something someone looking to downplay the numbers would do. The provinces might have done though.

what’s your theory on why Dr Li was asked by party officials to sign a statement admitting to making false statements on January 3rd, 4 days after warning his medical colleagues to wear protective clothing due to his observations of patients that this virus resembled SARS -(The sry same SARS virus outbreak they covered up from November 2002 until the Chinese authorities informed the WHO for the first time in February 2003)

Why did the authorities take those measures on January 3rd already?

 

[meltonblue]

They either mislead the WHO or the WHO are in on it with them. Japan and Taiwan think the latter, I want to give the WHO the benefit of the doubt but there certainly are question marks and it’s clear the WHO ignored Taiwan in December.

It doesn’t. The West were sleepwalking and gambling that they didn’t need to affect their economies in the hope it would be eventually controlled and tamed, like SARS -1, it wasn’t and we’re all paying the price.

They should have grounded flights immediately and spent fortunes on testing equipment and PPE.

They didn’t, we fucked it.

14-15 times more is what’s being leaked. It’s an incredible number even if partly true.

Well I trust Taiwan and Japan over China, especially because of what’s happened. Taiwan said they knew from colleagues (doctors) on the ground in Wuhan and it’s true they wrote to the WHO to express concern, which was subsequently ignored.

Taiwan have no reason to lie, they’re currently trying to get onside with China.

When this all comes out in the wash things will be very ugly.

That's just a false narrative though, Taiwan said to WHO that they thought there was a high risk of h2h transmission as they had seen patients passing it on to doctors. China at the time also said they had noticed transmission between family members. It was the sustained transmission (as in the chain continues onto others as well) that China didn't confirm until later on.

It's probably not true, the likelihood is somewhere in the middle, particularly as China actually added more to their figures rather than less on the orders of central government.

 

[meltonblue]

what’s your theory on why Dr Li was asked by party officials to sign a statement admitting to making false statements on January 3rd, 4 days after warning his medical colleagues to wear protective clothing due to his observations of patients that this virus resembled SARS -(The sry same SARS virus outbreak they covered up from November 2002 until the Chinese authorities informed the WHO for the first time in February 2003)

Why did the authorities take those measures on January 3rd already?

A cover up by the local government. The chinese supreme court found them guilty of it too.

This is what I mean about everything being put on the central government though