Players who might improve us

Koulibaly for me is no1 target.
Then a lb alaba or grimaldo
A rodri back up camavinga brings energy and pace.
Cancelo for semedo
Aouar to rotate in the mid
A winger/forward timo werner/Isaksson.

Eddy (steffan)
Walker (semedo)
Koulibaly (stones)
Laporte (garcia)
Alaba (mendy)
Rodri (ferna & camavinga)
Kdb (foden & doyle)
Bernado (aouar)
Sterling (Isaksson)
Sane (braff)
Kun (jesus)
 
Ederson's smiley tattoo said:
The Mendy variant works great with Laporte back, he's got world class reading of the game so he can easily close those gaps that appears. I also agree about our formation, which was at it's peak with Gundogan who's got the recovery pace of a 50 year old dad.

However I can't understand why we went for Rodri over Partey. Why not trade a little bit of playmaking ability for someone who's a lot faster, more agile, better going forward and defending. Partey is no slouch on the ball either, his passing range is excellent. Partey also had a much cheaper release clause. It must have been some bias going on given that Rodri is spanish just like Pep and that Busquets is probably Pep's favourite player after Messi. Rodri is good but Partey is as close to Fern you can get

We can either fix our counter attacking problem by getting someone to rotate with Rodri, for example Laimer, Zakaria or Partey who are fast box to box midfielders with excellent defensive capabilities and good feet. Or by buying a faster CB to pair up with Laporte. Someone like Upamecano, Varane, Sule or even buying Jason Denayer back from Lyon

Ideally I would buy both Laimer and Upamecano if i were Txiki and use Angelino as leverage. Zakaria is also someone who can play both CDM and CB just like Fern, he's also faster than some wingers even
Click to expand...

Rodri= Spanish player and Partey does not. Pure speculation on my part. I suppose I'm a cynic sometimes but in situations like this I think the occam's razor is the answer.
 
the_tevez_wiggle said:
Koulibaly for me is no1 target.
Then a lb alaba or grimaldo
A rodri back up camavinga brings energy and pace.
Cancelo for semedo
Aouar to rotate in the mid
A winger/forward timo werner/Isaksson.

Eddy (steffan)
Walker (semedo)
Koulibaly (stones)
Laporte (garcia)
Alaba (mendy)
Rodri (ferna & camavinga)
Kdb (foden & doyle)
Bernado (aouar)
Sterling (Isaksson)
Sane (braff)
Kun (jesus)
Click to expand...
Who is Isaksson? Do you mean Alexander Isak? Unsure how he would play as a winger to be honest, he got the right attributes but I've never seen him play there
 
Larry Stranger said:
When it comes to the #6 Pep almost always prefers someone's ability on the ball before their defensive abilities. He values the importance of playing out from the back and not losing the ball in the middle of the pitch. Also their passing ability to recycle and swing the ball side to side. Even before we got Rodri we almost got Jorginho. Yeah it would be great to have someone who can do that and defend like Kante, but that player is a rarity.
How we set up is important to protect the #6. We won a fair few games with Gundogan as the lone #6, but it was how we set up to not leave him alone. He played closer to the CB's to narrow the midfield with both fullbacks (Zinch/Delph and Walker) inverting. So you had a system basically like this with the CB's pushed up high.

-------------------LB-------------DM------------FR---------
----------------CB-----------------------------CB-----------

The problem this year is you had Mendy playing higher and wide like a wing back which left Rodri to cover more space.

LB-----------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------DM-----------------RB---------------
--------------CB---------------------------CB--------------

In the first setup the with Zinch/Delph the space for the opposition was behind and over the top on our left that's why everyone was saying they aren't LB's because they found themselves defending in those situations.

Now the space is between Mendy and Rodri which goes more through the midfield so everyone wants a DM. I believe that we can go with a #6 more like Gundogan provided we have the defensive cover for him like good and quick CB's and LB that can snuff out counters.
Click to expand...
This problem is created by inverted wingers, it forces the fullbacks to provide the width and leaves the CDM isolated. The only mitigation is dropping one of the #8's deeper which stiffles their creativity which is essentially what they're in the team to provide. This is why Sane or another left footed winger is absolutely crucial to getting back to our best.
 
Shame you didn't nip in for Cahill last year. He's no spring chicken, but would have been a good stop-gap until you find a long-term answer.

Stones really isn't up to it, even on the bench, IMO. Falling on his arse in the final had me sweating buckets, as you were the last leg of a big (for me) acca. He's got too many mistakes in him for a side of your calibre.

I agree about Koubailly (subject to £££), what a footballing beast he is!
 
better dead than red said:
Rodri= Spanish player and Partey does not. Pure speculation on my part. I suppose I'm a cynic sometimes but in situations like this I think the occam's razor is the answer.
Click to expand...

I think it’s more the fact that Pep is bitter about raw physicality in the modern game, than nationality; he accredited it to the premature end to his top-level career, and seems to have been intent on proving the notion that it’s now fundamental wrong since.

Even Fernandinho is only slight, so even his counterattack-ending tactical fouling is cute, rather than brutish; yet still, Pep couldn’t stand having him and his destructive connotations being acknowledged a key part of the success, so he pursued Jorginho and then Rodri instead, and refused to reinstate Dinho into the midfield role, despite it being the obvious area of perpetual vulnerability this season.

Partey would have been ideal replacement - and even upgrade - but he epitomises everything the modern midfield destroyer should be, so naturally Pep went for someone who opposes that perception, to the detriment of the team.

It’s such an approach that has even led to accusations of racism; it’s not that he’s racist, at all, it’s just that most African players, even great, technically elite ones - like Yaya Toure and Eto’o - generally have great physical attributes/advantages too, and that goes against his ideology, so he’ll replace them. In the same way Mourinho has a fetish for large men, Pep prefers technical, physically mediocre players in his own mould, to prove to the world - and himself - that they still belong at the pinnacle of the game.
 
Bpughh said:
___Sancho__Jesus___Sterling
______Foden___Bernardo
____________Kdb
Alaba___laporte_rodri___cancelo
Click to expand...

Rodri will not be playing centre back and sancho will not be joining us nor will ALABA , cancelo wont be a playing right back , apart from that you’ve done well haha
 
..... said:
I think it’s more the fact that Pep is bitter about raw physicality in the modern game, than nationality; he accredited it to the premature end to his top-level career, and seems to have been intent on proving the notion that it’s now fundamental wrong since.

Even Fernandinho is only slight, so even his counterattack-ending tactical fouling is cute, rather than brutish; yet still, Pep couldn’t stand having him and his destructive connotations being acknowledged a key part of the success, so he pursued Jorginho and then Rodri instead, and refused to reinstate Dinho into the midfield role, despite it being the obvious area of perpetual vulnerability this season.

Partey would have been ideal replacement - and even upgrade - but he epitomises everything the modern midfield destroyer should be, so naturally Pep went for someone who opposes that perception, to the detriment of the team.

It’s such an approach that has even led to accusations of racism; it’s not that he’s racist, at all, it’s just that most African players, even great, technically elite ones - like Yaya Toure and Eto’o - generally have great physical attributes/advantages too, and that goes against his ideology, so he’ll replace them. In the same way Mourinho has a fetish for large men, Pep prefers technical, physically mediocre players in his own mould, to prove to the world - and himself - that they still belong at the pinnacle of the game.
Click to expand...
Is this the same Pep who bought Kyle Walker and Benjamin Mendy? The epitome of physicality over technicality, both good players but both were bought to improve the teams robustness (even though Mendy hasn't quite worked with injuries).
 
ctid1894 said:
This problem is created by inverted wingers, it forces the fullbacks to provide the width and leaves the CDM isolated. The only mitigation is dropping one of the #8's deeper which stiffles their creativity which is essentially what they're in the team to provide. This is why Sane or another left footed winger is absolutely crucial to getting back to our best.
Click to expand...

Yes and no. I was just watching the Newcastle game where we drew 2-2.
We were basically set up like this in attack.

-----------------------------Jesus---------------------------
Mendy--------Sterling----------------KDB-------------------
---------Silva-----------------------------------------Mahrez
--------------Gundogan-------Walker---------------------
---------------Dinho--------------------Stones-------------

When we attacked on the left it was trying to link up between Silva, Mendy and Sterling. The object was to play Sterling little 1-2's with him using his shiftiness inside. It was working pretty well in which how he scored the first goal. The outlet was always Mendy who Newcastle just left alone. They didn't mind him crossing from out wide which is the least effective. It's easy to read and defend because he's not getting in behind the defence.

There are lots of factors when we lose the ball. With this set up, when we lost it on the left, Mahrez was helping defend on the counter attack. In the past was the 2 wingers in Sane and Sterling would sprint back to help defend. Because of their speed they broke up a lot of counters. Both Mahrez and Mendy (who's essentially the other winger) aren't as quick to help out. Also it's hard for Dinho being his first year as CB and having to deal with fast and physical strikers on his own rather than from a DM position.

The thing is that the formation wouldn't stay like this the entire game. There were times when KDB went wide and Mahrez played next to Jesus. Sometimes Kev dropped deep and Walker out wide. Pep's known for changing formations a lot during games. We had at least 2 clear cut chances from Jesus and Bernardo playing thru the middle before Kev's belter. Then Shelvey equalized.
 
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Larry Stranger said:
Yes and no. I was just watching the Newcastle game where we drew 2-2.
We were basically set up like this in attack.

-----------------------------Jesus---------------------------
Mendy--------Sterling----------------KDB-------------------
---------Silva-----------------------------------------Mahrez
--------------Gundogan-------Walker---------------------
---------------Dinho--------------------Stones-------------

When we attacked on the left it was trying to link up between Silva, Mendy and Sterling. The object was to play Sterling little 1-2's with him using his shiftiness inside. It was working pretty well in which how he scored the first goal. The outlet was always Mendy who Newcastle just left alone. They didn't mind him crossing from out wide which is the least effective. It's easy to read and defend because he's not getting in behind the defence.

There are lots of factors when we lose the ball. With this set up, when we lost it on the left, Mahrez was helping defend on the counter attack. In the past was the 2 wingers in Sane and Sterling would sprint back to help defend. Because of their speed they broke up a lot of counters. Both Mahrez and Mendy (who's essentially the other winger) aren't as quick to help out. Also it's hard for Dinho being his first year as CB and having to deal with fast and physical strikers on his own rather than from a DM position.

The thing is that the formation wouldn't stay like this the entire game. There were times when KDB went wide and Mahrez played next to Jesus. Sometimes Kev dropped deep and Walker out wide. Pep's known for changing formations a lot during games. We had at least 2 clear cut chances from Jesus and Bernardo playing thru the middle before Kev's belter. Then Shelvey equalized.
Click to expand...
You're over complicating it. I've got no problem with us using inverted wingers if we've identified a specific weakness, it can definitely work but not as a default tactic. As a default tactic wingers need to be able to get in behind and provide first time crosses in between the goalkeeper and defence.

Without that direct threat opposition fullbacks just have to concentrate on what is in front of them, it requires no thought process because they can see every movement.
 
ctid1894 said:
You're over complicating it. I've got no problem with us using inverted wingers if we've identified a specific weakness, it can definitely work but not as a default tactic. As a default tactic wingers need to be able to get in behind and provide first time crosses in between the goalkeeper and defence.

Without that direct threat opposition fullbacks just have to concentrate on what is in front of them, it requires no thought process because they can see every movement.
Click to expand...
I never said we didn't need a winger. It was more about your point of the #8 dropping back.
 
Larry Stranger said:
I never said we didn't need a winger. It was more about your point of the #8 dropping back.
Click to expand...
Sorry your post was that convoluted that I didn't understand what point you were trying to make. Even reading it back 3-4 times I'm still struggling to see where you discuss the #8's positioning positively or negatively. My apologies if it's me not interpreting something correctly.

- Sterling coming inside
- Mendy staying wide
- Wingers defending well
- Dinho at CB
- KDB rotating with Walker
 
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ctid1894 said:
Sorry your post was that convoluted that I didn't understand what point you were trying to make. Even reading it back 3-4 times I'm still struggling to see where you discuss the #8's positioning positively or negatively. My apologies if it's me not interpreting something correctly.

- Sterling coming inside
- Mendy staying wide
- Wingers defending well
- Dinho at CB
- KDB rotating with Walker
Click to expand...

Yes, I apologize if it's convoluted. Pep's formations can be complicated and I was just trying to analyze it. So your quote on the 8's were.

"This problem is created by inverted wingers, it forces the fullbacks to provide the width and leaves the CDM isolated. The only mitigation is dropping one of the #8's deeper which stiffles their creativity which is essentially what they're in the team to provide."

So I was providing an example of inverted wingers (Sterling and Mahrez) and the the 8's still staying high in Silva and KDB to provide creativity.

Pep usually has 5 players attack and 5 defend. So in this game at attacking players were Jesus, Sterling, Silva, KDB and either Mendy or Mahrez depending on what side of the pitch we were attacking. The 5 defending were Dinho, Stones, Gundo, Walker and Mendy or Mahrez. The wide players in Mahrez and Mendy in this game had to help defend. In the past Sane and Sterling defended counters well mainly due to their speed.

Another thing was how some people want a more defensive #6 and I was saying how Pep likes to play with a Gundogan type in the position and how he tries to get away with it. So looking at the defensive side, it was Walker next to Gundo in midfield with Mahrez being wide right and having to almost be a RB on counters. Also Dinho being new to the CB position (we all know our CB problems) is part of the reasons we had trouble defending counters this season and not only due to Rodri or Gundo. So I'm saying we don't necessarily need a defensive #6 as long as we have the right players around him to help protect on counter attacks.

It was just an overall analysis of what I saw against Newcastle. The Kev and Walker rotating along with Mahrez next to Jesus shows how many times Pep changes the position of players throughout a single game.
 
Larry Stranger said:
Yes, I apologize if it's convoluted. Pep's formations can be complicated and I was just trying to analyze it. So your quote on the 8's were.

"This problem is created by inverted wingers, it forces the fullbacks to provide the width and leaves the CDM isolated. The only mitigation is dropping one of the #8's deeper which stiffles their creativity which is essentially what they're in the team to provide."

So I was providing an example of inverted wingers (Sterling and Mahrez) and the the 8's still staying high in Silva and KDB to provide creativity.

Pep usually has 5 players attack and 5 defend. So in this game at attacking players were Jesus, Sterling, Silva, KDB and either Mendy or Mahrez depending on what side of the pitch we were attacking. The 5 defending were Dinho, Stones, Gundo, Walker and Mendy or Mahrez. The wide players in Mahrez and Mendy in this game had to help defend. In the past Sane and Sterling defended counters well mainly due to their speed.

Another thing was how some people want a more defensive #6 and I was saying how Pep likes to play with a Gundogan type in the position and how he tries to get away with it. So looking at the defensive side, it was Walker next to Gundo in midfield with Mahrez being wide right and having to almost be a RB on counters. Also Dinho being new to the CB position (we all know our CB problems) is part of the reasons we had trouble defending counters this season and not only due to Rodri or Gundo. So I'm saying we don't necessarily need a defensive #6 as long as we have the right players around him to help protect on counter attacks.

It was just an overall analysis of what I saw against Newcastle. The Kev and Walker rotating along with Mahrez next to Jesus shows how many times Pep changes the position of players throughout a single game.
Click to expand...
I agree with some aspects, but in that game (memory is faded so apologies) Silva dropped in to play in the 3 alongside Gundogan and Walker in possession in the 1st half, if memory serves me right, apologies if I'm incorrect. Even in your original formation layout (top of page 366) you show Silva playing behind Sterling and KDB in the middle, even if he was allowed considerably more freedom to push forward than Gundogan and Walker, that was more down to Newcastle's absolute reluctance to play. When Silva did go forward KDB dropped back centrally and Gundogan shifted over to protect the left hand side where Silva had vacated. On a couple of occasions Sterling also did Silva's running to allow Silva time to recover physically high up the pitch with his legs sadly failing him these days.

Mendy obviously dropped in to left back to make it a more conventional 433 when we lost possession (20% or something stupid I think). Even Silva's starting position when he received the ball to setup Sterling's goal is alongside Gundogan and Walker.

2nd half was more conventional, I think Phil replaced Dave and then we made a few other changes, fuck knows after that, the booze kicked in.
 
g180aj said:
I'd be made up with 3 of them, all 5 would guarantee the league next season.
Click to expand...
So how much more are going to invest into the Defence? I‘m fine with only Upamecano and Aouar. Telles& Mendy is too much imo. Telles would probably let Mendy look like the next flop. Sancho‘s best position is RW. Guess who‘s best position it is. Yeah Sterling, Mahrez and Bernardo. Semedo is the same type of player like Cancelo.
 
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