Obama

Trevor Morley's Tache said:
He may have regretted it initially, but when you consider how Trump has systematically desecrated the Office of the President of the United States since he took over then he's probably not regretting it any more.
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I don't see why he would regret it,he went along with the spirit of the white house dinner,trump is just a man child with no sense of humour
 
Saddleworth2 said:
He left the economy in a way better state than he inherited. He stopped two conflicts in iraq and afghanistan. He made incremental improvements in healthcare but you are right in that his delivery did not match his oratory. That was pretty much down to the make up of politics during the time he was president. He admits himself that he didnt get Syria right. I dont agree that a President is only judged by his achievements - look at JFK. They are also judged on the legacy of their presidency and as I said, his will be remembered for the grace, 'they go low, we go high' nature of his office.
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Just a minute. You say he stopped the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan? When was that then? Those conflicts are still kicking off nicely and there are still plenty of Americans involved. All he did was pulled regular troops out. Still plenty of air force activity and special forces in both those countries and neither are close to anything that can be described as other than a state of war.

He refused to engage with North Korea, cobbled a totally ridiculous agreement with Iran that did nothing more than kick the can up the road and in doing so greatly increased the chances of Israel kicking off and thus quite possibly triggering a very dangerous conflict that would fuck up what little stability there is in the region. Almost certainly dragging Western forces back into the area en masse, as well as even more Russian ones....what could possibly go wrong?

As much as it might go against the narrative Trump has probably contributed more to a less volatile and more peaceful middle east than ever Obama did. Do not forget for one minute had Billary got in she was intent on facing down Putin in Syria by shooting down his jets in Syrian airspace....brilliant. Add to this Trump has engaged and met Kim who is a menace. Yet no mention of the fact there has been far less rocket firing and general sabre rattling since Trump engaged with the bloke, even though he called him rocket man.

Obama was not the worst president in my life time. Nixon and Reagan could both have easily triggered a nuclear holocaust, and then there is the utter and absolute **** Clinton who sat back and allowed the horrors of Rwanda, the Balkans, turned the other cheek whilst the likes of Saddam, Assad, and numerous jihad related terror groups built up there armouries and organisations unchecked despite Clinton have all the intelligence keeping him in the picture.

I am afraid the attempt to portray Obama being some kind of real life Morgan Freeman Hollywood president are a touch delusional and far removed from the truth as most Hollywood fantasies are.
 
purplenose said:
Just a minute. You say he stopped the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan? When was that then? Those conflicts are still kicking off nicely and there are still plenty of Americans involved. All he did was pulled regular troops out. Still plenty of air force activity and special forces in both those countries and neither are close to anything that can be described as other than a state of war.

He refused to engage with North Korea, cobbled a totally ridiculous agreement with Iran that did nothing more than kick the can up the road and in doing so greatly increased the chances of Israel kicking off and thus quite possibly triggering a very dangerous conflict that would fuck up what little stability there is in the region. Almost certainly dragging Western forces back into the area en masse, as well as even more Russian ones....what could possibly go wrong?

As much as it might go against the narrative Trump has probably contributed more to a less volatile and more peaceful middle east than ever Obama did. Do not forget for one minute had Billary got in she was intent on facing down Putin in Syria by shooting down his jets in Syrian airspace....brilliant. Add to this Trump has engaged and met Kim who is a menace. Yet no mention of the fact there has been far less rocket firing and general sabre rattling since Trump engaged with the bloke, even though he called him rocket man.

Obama was not the worst president in my life time. Nixon and Reagan could both have easily triggered a nuclear holocaust, and then there is the utter and absolute **** Clinton who sat back and allowed the horrors of Rwanda, the Balkans, turned the other cheek whilst the likes of Saddam, Assad, and numerous jihad related terror groups built up there armouries and organisations unchecked despite Clinton have all the intelligence keeping him in the picture.

I am afraid the attempt to portray Obama being some kind of real life Morgan Freeman Hollywood president are a touch delusional and far removed from the truth as most Hollywood fantasies are.
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Good rant.
Like the best ones it’s almost fact free.
I think the best bit is Trump contributing more to a less volatile and more peaceful Middle East. I suppose abandoning allies in Northern Syria and allowing them to be slaughtered would ultimately bring about peace but peace by genocide is hardly something to commend someone for.
 
west didsblue said:
Good rant.
Like the best ones it’s almost fact free.
I think the best bit is Trump contributing more to a less volatile and more peaceful Middle East. I suppose abandoning allies in Northern Syria and allowing them to be slaughtered would ultimately bring about peace but peace by genocide is hardly something to commend someone for.
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Fact free? Do enlighten me?

So you would now be a card carrying republican Trump supporter had he poured half the US Marine corps and deployed his entire bomb wing to flatten the bad guys in Northern Syria? How would you resolve the Syria conflict?

As for commending Trump not something I would readily do and have not done so in my post. I will however not leap upon the left leaning band waggon and condemn out of hand everything he does purely to be in with the crowd.
 
purplenose said:
Just a minute. You say he stopped the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan? When was that then? Those conflicts are still kicking off nicely and there are still plenty of Americans involved. All he did was pulled regular troops out. Still plenty of air force activity and special forces in both those countries and neither are close to anything that can be described as other than a state of war.

He refused to engage with North Korea, cobbled a totally ridiculous agreement with Iran that did nothing more than kick the can up the road and in doing so greatly increased the chances of Israel kicking off and thus quite possibly triggering a very dangerous conflict that would fuck up what little stability there is in the region. Almost certainly dragging Western forces back into the area en masse, as well as even more Russian ones....what could possibly go wrong?

As much as it might go against the narrative Trump has probably contributed more to a less volatile and more peaceful middle east than ever Obama did. Do not forget for one minute had Billary got in she was intent on facing down Putin in Syria by shooting down his jets in Syrian airspace....brilliant. Add to this Trump has engaged and met Kim who is a menace. Yet no mention of the fact there has been far less rocket firing and general sabre rattling since Trump engaged with the bloke, even though he called him rocket man.

Obama was not the worst president in my life time. Nixon and Reagan could both have easily triggered a nuclear holocaust, and then there is the utter and absolute **** Clinton who sat back and allowed the horrors of Rwanda, the Balkans, turned the other cheek whilst the likes of Saddam, Assad, and numerous jihad related terror groups built up there armouries and organisations unchecked despite Clinton have all the intelligence keeping him in the picture.

I am afraid the attempt to portray Obama being some kind of real life Morgan Freeman Hollywood president are a touch delusional and far removed from the truth as most Hollywood fantasies are.
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So your giving him a solid 8/10?

Like his wife.
 
hilts said:
So your giving him a solid 8/10?

Like his wife.
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Let me assure you that I would be more than happy to give either Obama or Trumps mrs a solid 8 to 10. There is medication these days that would ensure the "solid" I am not prepared to undergo the surgery required in order for me to provide 8/10. They would just have to accept it in installments.
 
purplenose said:
Fact free? Do enlighten me?

So you would now be a card carrying republican Trump supporter had he poured half the US Marine corps and deployed his entire bomb wing to flatten the bad guys in Northern Syria? How would you resolve the Syria conflict?

As for commending Trump not something I would readily do and have not done so in my post. I will however not leap upon the left leaning band waggon and condemn out of hand everything he does purely to be in with the crowd.
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That’s called a logical fallacy. Don’t worry, there’s a lot of it about especially on the Brexit thread.

As for enlightening you about the facts there’s so much wrong with your post I wouldn’t know where to start, and it would take more than a couple of paragraphs on here.
 
west didsblue said:
That’s called a logical fallacy. Don’t worry, there’s a lot of it about especially on the Brexit thread.

As for enlightening you about the facts there’s so much wrong with your post I wouldn’t know where to start, and it would take more than a couple of paragraphs on here.
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Oh well I will have to live in blissful ignorance then forever wondering how I might have been educated had you only had the time to impart your wisdom.
 
west didsblue said:
You could always try Google.
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I have done that long ago and read extensively on many subject including for example both the tragedies in the Balkans and Rwanda and have a decent knowledge of most middle east conflicts past and present. Despite this I am far from arrogant and have no delusions of being some kind of highly intelligent genius.

Were I too feel strongly enough to respond to someones post effectively telling them they were talking out of their arse I would consider it reasonable to point out why that was my conclusion.

I would actually think under the circumstances and given the claims I was making of having superior knowledge on the matter to then simply refer the poster with whom I was engaging to google may make me seem at best a little arrogant or at worst unable to back up my initial disagreement which could well make me look like a bit of a wally.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
It's amazing that people who consider themselves so well read can write such ridiculous sentences.
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Why ridiculous? I do not have much time for Trump nor did I for Obama. Like it or not both have done good and bad things, only one of them seems to be condemned out of hand no matter what. I actually think Obama would have done a better job managing Coronavirus in the States, but then he could not have done much worse could he.
 
purplenose said:
Why ridiculous? I do not have much time for Trump nor did I for Obama. Like it or not both have done good and bad things, only one of them seems to be condemned out of hand no matter what. I actually think Obama would have done a better job managing Coronavirus in the States, but then he could not have done much worse could he.
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And why do you think Donald Trump is "condemned out of hand"? Besides everyone wanting to be with "the in crowd" I mean?

Yeah, yeah . . . you don't like Trump, Obama, Nixon, Reagan, either Clinton -- who's your guy, Millard Fillmore?
 
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FogBlueInSanFran said:
And why do you think Donald Trump is "condemned out of hand"? Besides everyone wanting to be with "the in crowd" I mean?

Yeah, yeah . . . you don't like Trump, Obama, Nixon, Reagan, either Clinton -- who's your guy, Millard Fillmore?
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In the UK he is condemned out of hand by everyone who is considered left. Labour Voters, Remainers and so on.

You live in the States, maybe even Yank? I would not claim to be able to to speak with any credible authority about an American president comparably to someone who lives in the US and therefore is much more directly effected by the actions of the president. Though of course most nations and people across the globe are to some degree.

My own favourite president would probably be Bush "mk1" but again I form that opinion from afar and accept in doing so it is likely to be less credible than someone who is in the states.

Your tone suggests you are looking for a fight and are unable to disagree in a civil and polite manner.
 
purplenose said:
In the UK he is condemned out of hand by everyone who is considered left. Labour Voters, Remainers and so on.

You live in the States, maybe even Yank? I would not claim to be able to to speak with any credible authority about an American president comparably to someone who lives in the US and therefore is much more directly effected by the actions of the president. Though of course most nations and people across the globe are to some degree.

My own favourite president would probably be Bush "mk1" but again I form that opinion from afar and accept in doing so it is likely to be less credible than someone who is in the states.

Your tone suggests you are looking for a fight and are unable to disagree in a civil and polite manner.
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He is condemned out of hand by anyone that believes in the rule of law.
 
purplenose said:
In the UK he is condemned out of hand by everyone who is considered left. Labour Voters, Remainers and so on.

You live in the States, maybe even Yank? I would not claim to be able to to speak with any credible authority about an American president comparably to someone who lives in the US and therefore is much more directly effected by the actions of the president. Though of course most nations and people across the globe are to some degree.

My own favourite president would probably be Bush "mk1" but again I form that opinion from afar and accept in doing so it is likely to be less credible than someone who is in the states.

Your tone suggests you are looking for a fight and are unable to disagree in a civil and polite manner.
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My tone is brought about because I dislike thoughtless, uninformed generalizations like "I will however not leap upon the left leaning band waggon and condemn out of hand everything he does purely to be in with the crowd."

You don't have to be left or right, from the States or anywhere else, to want to condemn amorality, stupidity, lack of experience and preparation, self-serving, a laughable-were-it-not appalling lack of honesty and those utterly devoid of empathy. Which he's demonstrated for 30+ years of his public life by the way.

You aren't friends with nor related to anyone like this I reckon.

If you can't see those traits and condemn them in Trump, and excuse them with some insipid rationalization like "well, la de da, everyone does good things and bad things, herp de derp", then there's either an intellectual or moral defect you should have resolved.

This isn't political. This is about traits that underlie leadership or lack thereof. To believe they don't matter is to espouse the philosophy that the ends justify the means. Maybe that is what you believe. And if it is, then, yeah, we disagree, and don't expect me to be civil about it.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
My tone is brought about because I dislike thoughtless, uninformed generalizations like "I will however not leap upon the left leaning band waggon and condemn out of hand everything he does purely to be in with the crowd."

You don't have to be left or right, from the States or anywhere else, to want to condemn amorality, stupidity, lack of experience and preparation, self-serving, a laughable-were-it-not appalling lack of honesty and those utterly devoid of empathy.

You aren't friends with nor related to anyone like this I reckon.

If you can't see those traits and condemn them in Trump, and excuse them with some insipid rationalization like "well, la de da, everyone does good things and bad things, herp de derp", then there's either an intellectual or moral defect you should have resolved.

This isn't political. This is about traits that underlie leadership or lack thereof. To believe they don't matter is to espouse the philosophy that the ends justify the means. Maybe that is what you believe. And if it is, then, yeah, we disagree, and don't expect me to be civil about it.
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Really fine post mate. Agree with every word and most of them could also be applied to our own PM.
Out of interest, what was your view of Obama? Both as an individual and his Presidential legacy?
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
My tone is brought about because I dislike thoughtless, uninformed generalizations like "I will however not leap upon the left leaning band waggon and condemn out of hand everything he does purely to be in with the crowd."

You don't have to be left or right, from the States or anywhere else, to want to condemn amorality, stupidity, lack of experience and preparation, self-serving, a laughable-were-it-not appalling lack of honesty and those utterly devoid of empathy. Which he's demonstrated for 30+ years of his public life by the way.

You aren't friends with nor related to anyone like this I reckon.

If you can't see those traits and condemn them in Trump, and excuse them with some insipid rationalization like "well, la de da, everyone does good things and bad things, herp de derp", then there's either an intellectual or moral defect you should have resolved.

This isn't political. This is about traits that underlie leadership or lack thereof. To believe they don't matter is to espouse the philosophy that the ends justify the means. Maybe that is what you believe. And if it is, then, yeah, we disagree, and don't expect me to be civil about it.
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I actually agree with much of what you have said. I have not expressed a like or preference for Donald Trump or what he is and many of the things he has done.

I am neither left nor right as a result am accused by both of being both.....using American speak, Go Figure.

If you cannot be civil when discussing these matters then you are frankly rather more like Donald Trump than Barack Obama that I will gladly give you. Which of course is quite ironic.

When you talk about traits then I would suggest that there are few if any politicians have the traits you value or at least none that are more than skin deep. If this were not the case I am very sorry to say they would be very unlikely to make much impact in politics either side of the atlantic.

Just to some that up in a few choice words of Kippax speak in my humble opinion they are pretty much all a bunch of cunts.
 
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