George Floyd murder | Clashes between US police and protestors

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Proy said:
There is no ignorance.

Black people are treated differently in America. I accept that. It’s a fundamental issue buried deep in the police force.

It needs sorting out.
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So you know that there's a pretty long history of nothing happening to cops who kill black people on camera, and yet you still argued the fact he couldn't have thought he'd get away with it because it was filmed?

It's either ignorance or you're wilfully being disingenuous.
 
karen7 said:
If he was doing it because he is a stone cold killer then the other three officers would not have pinned down the rest of his body and just let him do it,none of the others on the scene would have let him either ,the person that took his pulse wouldn't have let him either,not one of them pushed him off because they are used to doing what they want to black and other ethnics with no come back
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Yep. They were all implicit and all bent officers. They shouldn’t be anywhere near a blue uniform.

But I stand by what I said in this particular case. I suspect there was more at play here between this crew and George Floyd. We may never know.

It may well be race related. It may well be interpreted that way when all is said and done.

All I’m saying is this case has a lot of noise around it and my feeling at the moment is this may not have been solely about the colour of his skin.

There are coppers in America who will kill regardless of race. It has happened before.
 
ste1969 said:
I was in the centre of bristol when all this happened, but was at the other side of the harbourside so didn't see it. On walking home we walked through castle park where the demo ended 10k people, but they was kind of in a bowl so couldn't hear what was going on.In the say 2 hours in the centre today, i only seen 2 cops who was chatting and laughing with locals.
Coming away from the park maybe 5 mins away was lot's of cops in riot vans and horses all on standby.I think the cops got it right there if needed but out of sight.
As for the statue it would have been taken down in time by the council, most people used to climb it at weekends and piss on it.
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Yeah I think there are times when the police have to give a bit of ground to keep things calm,you be careful out there x
 
ste1969 said:
I was in the centre of bristol when all this happened, but was at the other side of the harbourside so didn't see it. On walking home we walked through castle park where the demo ended 10k people, but they was kind of in a bowl so couldn't hear what was going on.In the say 2 hours in the centre today, i only seen 2 cops who was chatting and laughing with locals.
Coming away from the park maybe 5 mins away was lot's of cops in riot vans and horses all on standby.I think the cops got it right there if needed but out of sight.
As for the statue it would have been taken down in time by the council, most people used to climb it at weekends and piss on it.
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I feel like the statue really underpins the difference between the Uk protests and the US protests.

In the USA, the statues of confederates were erected in the 1930s by racists and KKK members to glorify the bastards, and to let everyone know they still held the beliefs of the people fighting for slavery.

Because of the stupidity of the country, peaceful attempts to remove said statues has been met by resistance from modern day racists and far right groups like the proudboys who held the "united the right" rally in Virginia where one of them killed Heather Heyer - which lead to Trump's infamous "both sides" comment. Racist state politicians and mayors and councilmen have vetoed or otherwise blocked democratic ways of removing them. In fact, in Alabama, the bloody state government made it illegal for a City council to remove statues even if they wanted to.

In Bristol, I really think if they just signed a petition with a few 10's of thousand signatures, the council would have pretty quickly gotten rid of it, and not blocked it. But the protesters saw the crowd topple a few statues in the USA where their peaceful, democratic methods have failed, and thought, let's do that here as well but without the long, peaceful campaign first.
 
domalino said:
So you know that there's a pretty long history of nothing happening to cops who kill black people on camera, and yet you still argued the fact he couldn't have thought he'd get away with it because it was filmed?

It's either ignorance or you're wilfully being disingenuous.
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That isn’t what I said. I said there is a fundamental issue with the way black people are treated by American police officers.
 
domalino said:
I feel like the statue really underpins the difference between the Uk protests and the US protests.

In the USA, the statues of confederates were erected in the 1930s by racists and KKK members to glorify the bastards, and to let everyone know they still held the beliefs of the people fighting for slavery.

Because of the stupidity of the country, peaceful attempts to remove said statues has been met by resistance from modern day racists and far right groups like the proudboys who held the "united the right" rally in Virginia where one of them killed Heather Heyer - which lead to Trump's infamous "both sides" comment. Racist state politicians and mayors and councilmen have vetoed or otherwise blocked democratic ways of removing them. In fact, in Alabama, the bloody state government made it illegal for a City council to remove statues even if they wanted to.

In Bristol, I really think if they just signed a petition with a few 10's of thousand signatures, the council would have pretty quickly gotten rid of it, and not blocked it.
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From what i hear they have tried to get rid of it for years, the colston hall in refurb currently was to be renamed... and the statue was going to be replaced.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
I go back to my first post then which you must have missed: what special knowledge or insight do you have that leads you to this conclusion? What unique understanding of African-American culture or law enforcement in the US gives you an understanding of the issue at hand?
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I don’t need a unique understanding of African American culture. It really isn’t relevant.

I only know that they shared an historical connection, which could well have provided motive to kill. I don’t know the detail, in the same way that those suggesting he was murdered because he was black, also don’t know the detail. Until that detail around motive is clear, it’s probably best that nobody jumps to conclusions.
 
Ban-jani said:
Isn’t a police woman seriously injured?

I don’t think potentially setting off a second wave of a virus that’s already killed at least 40,000 in this country, vandalising war memorials of people who actually fought fascism and being violent to a police force here, for something that happened 3000 miles away in another state, is a reasonable response.

I totally appreciate the need to support marginalised people in other countries and to try and improve things for minorities here, I just don’t believe the above is a reasonable response.

I also understand that the protests are being aimed at racism towards black people across the world and not just in the US, however if George Floyd wasn’t sadly murdered there wouldn’t have been a UK protest, hence why I don’t think we should be doing damage to ourselves over atrocities in another state, hell, we’d be in real trouble if we did it for most things around the world of this nature.

I do get the feeling that some of those defending the protests would be up in arms if it was someone they disagreed with.

A mate of mine went apoplectic on social media over Cummings not obeying the rules, yet has been out twice for these marches and was sending photos from a packed Piccadilly Gardens on Saturday.
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I understand she is, fingers crossed she is okay. I am also not a fan of horses being used at protests and I also think that mass protests during a pandemic is hardly the most sensible move, but the spark was lit and here we are. There is an air of inevitability about it and if a few statues get defaced along the way I can’t say I’m that arsed. And the protests here are as much about our police as the US police. Let’s not pretend there aren’t any grievances closer to home.

For what it’s worth I personally think we are buggered on the virus, protests or no protests, unless we get lucky. The Govt seems to have given up, it’s quarantine plan won’t last the week, and you can almost smell it’s blood in the water.
 
Bigga said:
A superb write up, mate. Just brilliant!

Even at my age, no longer having close ties to the streets, I feel nothing's changed that much.
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Cheers man.

The funny thing is, the disproportionality between how ethnic minorities and white people are treated by law enforcement gets more uneven when you look at the reports and statistical evidence in London, where the distrust and anger towards police is more evident than anywhere else.

People acting like what's happening currently is simply down to one murder two weeks ago in America are missing a much, much bigger picture.
 
Proy said:
I don’t need a unique understanding of African American culture. It really isn’t relevant.

I only know that they shared an historical connection, which could well have provided motive to kill. I don’t know the detail, in the same way that those suggesting he was murdered because he was black, also don’t know the detail. Until that detail around motive is clear, it’s probably best that nobody jumps to conclusions.
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And what of the other 3 officers at least complicit in George Floyd's murder. Were they not racially motivated either?
 
BobKowalski said:
Man with no understanding opines on subject at length. Why do you guys persist in posting whilst stupid?
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That’s not what I said now, is it?

I didn’t say I had no understanding, I said I didn’t need one to articulate the point.
 
Proy said:
That isn’t what I said. I said there is a fundamental issue with the way black people are treated by American police officers.
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You quite clearly did say that though. And I quote -

"He did it on camera not because he thought he would get away with it,"..."If you really believe he thought he would get away with it with a phone pointed in his face ‘because he was black’, well we shall just have to agree to disagree."


You did say "there is a fundamental issue with the way black people are treated by American police officers" and no one has argued with that, but unfortunately you said a lot of other stuff which people are taking issue with because it's ignorant or actually...wrong.
 
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