Keir Starmer

[Rascal]

I'm sure they'll come up with a final solution, it would be in keeping with the party.

That is pathetic.

 

[Ban-jani]

Neither, i would prefer a Socialist as many thousands of ex-labour members do.

There is no point at all in having a Labour party that is the same as the Tory party, tweedle dee and tweedle dum of political discourse, both pro-free market, the only difference being the probable stance on the EU.

Starmer is closer to your views though, comfortably, than the Tories.

Surely that’s a better option for you given the country didn’t want socialism.

 

[Rascal]

I agree but those being racist in the first place are very much cesspit dwellers too.

It was them being racist FFS, they stopped the very small amount of cases being processed whilst attacking Abbot at the same time.

You clearly have not read the report, otherwise you wouldn't be coming out with this rubbish.

 

[Rascal]

What about the Johnson point?

My argument is that condemning someone politically you don’t like for breaking the rules doesn’t mean you can then do worse yourself.

A mate of mine was apoplectic about Cummings in social media, then went on the march twice, he’s a hypocrite who should know better.

I am not condemning Cummings because I dont like him, its because he set the rules and broke them, whilst virtually everyone else followed them. It cannot be one rule for him and one for everyone else. So if he does it, then i dont blame people at all for doing it.

It is down to him, he fucked up and people will die because of him.

 

[Ban-jani]

It was them being racist FFS, they stopped the very small amount of cases being processed whilst attacking Abbot at the same time.

You clearly have not read the report, otherwise you wouldn't be coming out with this rubbish.

I did read it.

There wasn’t a great deal of evidence within the report itself but...

It suggests the Blairites used the antisemitism as a weapon to attack Corbyn and his allies but they wouldn’t have had the weapon in the first place if there wasn’t antisemitism. The report is an attempt to shift the blame somewhat but the EHRC are going to use it in their investigation with Labour.

The other bit to consider is that there is a real expectation within Labour the EHRC will find them guilty of institutionalised antisemitism.

 

[Rascal]

Starmer is closer to your views though, comfortably, than the Tories.

Surely that’s a better option for you given the country didn’t want socialism.

You clearly didnt read the report did you.

If it wasnt for those at party HQ working against the party we would have had a Socialist government. But the backstabbers like Starmer, Hodge , Austin and Kinnock actively worked against there own party and if they think they now deserve my support they can get fucked. They are just as bad as the tories in my eyes. Starmer is a close politically to me as a left wing Tory, on other words miles away.

I will not be voting Labour whilst he is in charge, he is embarrasing.

 

[Ban-jani]

I am not condemning Cummings because I dont like him, its because he set the rules and broke them, whilst virtually everyone else followed them. It cannot be one rule for him and one for everyone else. So if he does it, then i dont blame people at all for doing it.

It is down to him, he fucked up and people will die because of him.

I agree with the first bit but then those criticising Cummings and behaving worse makes you a big fat hypocrite and you lose all moral high ground (not you personally).

As you say, lives are at stake, so why take lives because a government advisor has?

 

[meltonblue]

Neither, i would prefer a Socialist as many thousands of ex-labour members do.

There is no point at all in having a Labour party that is the same as the Tory party, tweedle dee and tweedle dum of political discourse, both pro-free market, the only difference being the probable stance on the EU.

Sharing some similar sentiments economically doesn’t mean they are similar across the whole spectrum, to be fair. They are not interchangeable parties, certainly not with this particular government which is one of the most dangerous we’ve ever had.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I did read it.

There wasn’t a great deal of evidence within the report itself but...

It suggests the Blairites used the antisemitism as a weapon to attack Corbyn and his allies but they wouldn’t have had the weapon in the first place if there wasn’t antisemitism. The report is an attempt to shift the blame somewhat but the EHRC are going to use it in their investigation with Labour.

The other bit to consider is that there is a real expectation within Labour the EHRC will find them guilty of institutionalised antisemitism.

I'm not going to argue with you on this because we end up falling out. I would say though that the sudden silence on antisemitism since Labour got rid of Corbyn is in itself evidence that the problem was leveraged by his political opponents , rather than genuinely dealt with. Starmer gave a few comforting words to the jewish community when he took charge, then nothing. My guess - and I'll be happy to be wrong, is he realises that due to the report he can't deal with antisemitism without also dealing with those that weaponised it for the benefit of his own career and it will all be swept under the carpet. He'll get away with this as the media moguls are pleased to have got rid of the nasty socialist that was threatening them with reform.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

I'm not going to argue with you on this because we end up falling out. I would say though that the sudden silence on antisemitism since Labour got rid of Corbyn is in itself evidence that the problem was leveraged by his political opponents , rather than genuinely dealt with. Starmer gave a few comforting words to the jewish community when he took charge, then nothing. My guess - and I'll be happy to be wrong, is he realises that due to the report he can't deal with antisemitism without also dealing with those that weaponised it for the benefit of his own career and it will all be swept under the carpet. He'll get away with this as the media moguls are pleased to have got rid of the nasty socialist that was threatening them with reform.

I wonder if it’s a bit more simple than that? Corbyn had a few fanatical supporters who thought they were (and indeed might have been) beyond reproach. With the perception that JC was antisemitic (and whether true or not, doesn’t really matter as perception usually replaces truth, sadly), I’m sure that the members who did have those views probably felt empowered to behave in the way they did. Perhaps those people have since skulked away?

 

[Rascal]

The other bit to consider is that there is a real expectation within Labour the EHRC will find them guilty of institutionalised antisemitism.

If 0.2% of members who were accused means institutionalised then its a joke, the whole process was manipulated by the back stabbers at party HQ who did everything they could to undermine the party and enable a Johnson government. It is one of the most shameful actions in the parties history. The accusations of AS against some members was fucking ridiculous and the issue was used time and time again to undermine the leadership.

Not one of those responsible has been sacked and shamed for what they have done and Starmer then confounds it by appointing a fucking Blairite as Gen Sec who starts immediately to purge the party of the left wing. Its an internal power struggle and AS was weaponised by the cunts at HQ to discredit the leadership and still the party was a few thousand votes short of power in key seats that had been starved of funding so that fat **** Watson could guard a huge majority.

Its disgusting what those cunts at party HQ have done, Starmer has done fuck all about them as well, its one massive fuck you to the left, the very people like me who were out doing the hard yards on the streets delivering leaflets whilst they sat in their cosy offices plotting against the party. They are vermin in my eyes and the party has been bought by the FBFE fruitcakes and deservedly i hope they never see power because if they are capable of doing that to the very people who pay their wages, what will they do to those who don't.

 

[Ban-jani]

You clearly didnt read the report did you.

If it wasnt for those at party HQ working against the party we would have had a Socialist government. But the backstabbers like Starmer, Hodge , Austin and Kinnock actively worked against there own party and if they think they now deserve my support they can get fucked. They are just as bad as the tories in my eyes. Starmer is a close politically to me as a left wing Tory, on other words miles away.

I will not be voting Labour whilst he is in charge, he is embarrasing.

I really did mate, I’m not making it up, we just took different things from it obviously.

2017 was the only chance but you could argue that if the Tories weren’t so useless they’d have walked it on the flip side.

I just don’t think Corbyn’s politics is what people want.

You vote for who you like mate, I doubt I’ll vote for Labour either but I always wait for a manifesto before committing.

 

[Rascal]

I wonder if it’s a bit more simple than that? Corbyn had a few fanatical supporters who thought they were (and indeed might have been) beyond reproach. With the perception that JC was antisemitic (and whether true or not, doesn’t really matter as perception usually replaces truth, sadly), I’m sure that the members who did have those views probably felt empowered to behave in the way they did. Perhaps those people have since skulked away?

They made up 0.2% of the party. That's accused not found guilty. I am sure there were some who were AS but for it to be used to paint he majority as AS is simply wrong, as Mazzerelli says where are the accusations now? If a person is AS they don't stop being AS just because the leader changes, its ingrained in their psyche.

But as ever as Ban has shown, the mud sticks and a few platitudes from Starmer does nothing, he needs to get to the truth with a proper inquiry but I wont hold my breath about that.

 

[Ban-jani]

I'm not going to argue with you on this because we end up falling out. I would say though that the sudden silence on antisemitism since Labour got rid of Corbyn is in itself evidence that the problem was leveraged by his political opponents , rather than genuinely dealt with. Starmer gave a few comforting words to the jewish community when he took charge, then nothing. My guess - and I'll be happy to be wrong, is he realises that due to the report he can't deal with antisemitism without also dealing with those that weaponised it for the benefit of his own career and it will all be swept under the carpet. He'll get away with this as the media moguls are pleased to have got rid of the nasty socialist that was threatening them with reform.

There’s no need for us to fall out, we can disagree without diverting from a reasonable discussion.

I get your point a lot but the Tories don’t need to leverage antisemitism at Starmer, we’re 4 years away from an election.

I agree that Starmer hasn’t exactly sorted it out, I expected heads to roll but they haven’t. I quite like him as an individual but I find many in Labour morally bankrupt and that’s what puts me off.

It’s the opposite to Rascal’s view really, on Starmer vs the party.

You’re right, he cannot get rid of the antisemites without getting rid of those that weaponised it to attack the Corbyn lot running the party, he’ll be left with hardly anyone.

The antisemitism issue was the biggest thing for me and the report only confirmed that the supposed group who weren’t racist, shamelessly used it as a weapon.

I don’t think I can actively put a party like that in power and look at myself in the mirror.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I wonder if it’s a bit more simple than that? Corbyn had a few fanatical supporters who thought they were (and indeed might have been) beyond reproach. With the perception that JC was antisemitic (and whether true or not, doesn’t really matter as perception usually replaces truth, sadly), I’m sure that the members who did have those views probably felt empowered to behave in the way they did. Perhaps those people have since skulked away?

Possibly, but that's all a bit convenient when we were told it was a systemic/institutionalised issue. Sure a change of leadership can bring about a rapid change in culture, but it seems to me that the AS outrage reached a high point just before the GE, and disappeared once BJ was safely in no 10 and corbyn agreed to go. All smells of fish.

 

[Ban-jani]

If 0.2% of members who were accused means institutionalised then its a joke, the whole process was manipulated by the back stabbers at party HQ who did everything they could to undermine the party and enable a Johnson government. It is one of the most shameful actions in the parties history. The accusations of AS against some members was fucking ridiculous and the issue was used time and time again to undermine the leadership.

Not one of those responsible has been sacked and shamed for what they have done and Starmer then confounds it by appointing a fucking Blairite as Gen Sec who starts immediately to purge the party of the left wing. Its an internal power struggle and AS was weaponised by the cunts at HQ to discredit the leadership and still the party was a few thousand votes short of power in key seats that had been starved of funding so that fat **** Watson could guard a huge majority.

Its disgusting what those cunts at party HQ have done, Starmer has done fuck all about them as well, its one massive fuck you to the left, the very people like me who were out doing the hard yards on the streets delivering leaflets whilst they sat in their cosy offices plotting against the party. They are vermin in my eyes and the party has been bought by the FBFE fruitcakes and deservedly i hope they never see power because if they are capable of doing that to the very people who pay their wages, what will they do to those who don't.

Most of what you are saying is preaching to the converted, I agree it was used as a manipulation but where we differ is that like the BLM movement, listening to victims is very important and dismissing the concerns of the Jewish people within Labour has been a serious concern for the left of the party, that were tasked with sorting it out.

I genuinely don’t think Corbyn cared and his opposition to Israel clouded his judgement. For example the “Zionists don’t understand English humour” is an antisemitic dog whistle.

The next move is to cast doubt on the independent watchdog itself, which he did last week.

It depends where the 0.2.% people are and their roles. Those are people directly accused, it could be more and it’s still 1,160 people accused of it, at different levels, throughout the party. That’s 1,160 incidents.

Again, you don’t need to convince me of the behaviour of the Blairites in the party.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

They made up 0.2% of the party. That's accused not found guilty. I am sure there were some who were AS but for it to be used to paint he majority as AS is simply wrong, as Mazzerelli says where are the accusations now? If a person is AS they don't stop being AS just because the leader changes, its ingrained in their psyche.

But as ever as Ban has shown, the mud sticks and a few platitudes from Starmer does nothing, he needs to get to the truth with a proper inquiry but I wont hold my breath about that.

As someone who votes for them but has never been a member, I must admit that I’m only speculating and, somewhat embarrassingly, I have no idea of the reality.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Possibly, but that's all a bit convenient when we were told it was a systemic/institutionalised issue. Sure a change of leadership can bring about a rapid change in culture, but it seems to me that the AS outrage reached a high point just before the GE, and disappeared once BJ was safely in no 10 and corbyn agreed to go. All smells of fish.

You are probably right. Imagine the Fleet St meltdown if JC had won and he’d borrowed a quarter of what the government have had to borrow, due to the current crisis.

 

[Rascal]

The antisemitism issue was the biggest thing for me and the report only confirmed that the supposed group who weren’t racist, shamelessly used it as a weapon.

I don’t think I can actively put a party like that in power and look at myself in the mirror.

The backstabbers at party HQ who weaponised AS and made it an issue have obviously convinced you.

Funny though, now Mr Woodenhead is leader everyone has stopped being anti-semitic and everything is rosy in the garden, the media fawn over him and praise his forensic ability. I mean calling Johnsons schools strategy "mismanagement" is cutting aint it. That gets right to the heart of the matter and the establishment must be shaking in their boots lol

Don't look in that mirror though, you may see the ghosts of 50k people who should still be with us.

 

[Rascal]

As someone who votes for them but has never been a member, I must admit that I’m only speculating and, somewhat embarrassingly, I have no idea of the reality.

Don't worry about it pal. Johnson is untouchable, get used to it as he will be in power a long time and when he eventually leaves power there will not be an alternative, it will just be more of the same from whichever party win.

I am losing the will to fight against it, the last election for me was like City v Gillingham, only Dickov's shot didn't go in, it hit the bar and bounced out, we lost and were stuck in Div 3 for eternity. The rag cunts win the title every year and we slowly fall into oblivion and end up playing on Hough End in the Manchester sunday league, dreaming of what could have been.