George Floyd murder | Clashes between US police and protestors

[Bigga]

Can someone explain this to me as I am struggling. Ndjodi Ndeunyema appears to be one of the organisers involved in the removal of the Rhodes statue in Oxford appearing on TV and giving press statements. About the protest earlier this week he said 'We are here to shame the college that seeks to venerate and glorify someone who is not worthy of glorification or veneration'. He is clearly a very bright person having completed three Oxford masters degrees. However he is studying at Oxford as a Rhodes scholar, that is to say he is happy to take money from the trust to enable him to be at Oxford. So it's ok to take the money from a trust set up by the very person you hate.

Do you know if he'll return that money?

Do you know if he's even thought about that issue, being a "bright person"?

I would think the 'irony' wouldn't be lost on him.

 

[Ban-jani]

We change history now to avoid passing judgement. We airbrush taught history to make sure it is palatable. British history is sanitised with all the bad bits largely removed. And it is incorrect to say our current morals and values did not exist then. There was a lot of heated debate about the morality of slavery at the time which is why it was eventually abolished and we are in a position to say whether something is truly right or wrong. Slavery and genocide are two for starters.

Look if you guys want to say that having a statue of a slaver who butchered thousands for money is okay then just say so without all this shit about Pyramids or whatever. And if it isn’t okay why the fuck are we arguing the toss over it?

I disagree.

I was taught in school about the Empire and the likes of Bloody Sunday, I have always known that Britain wasn’t always the good guys.

The left have a pretty tight grip in education these days too.

 

[BobKowalski]

And to do that with a tiny standing army was mightily impressive.

Yes but that kind of proves the point. That’s the bit we are taught along with ‘how we brought railroads’ to the subcontinent. You don’t get taught how we economically raped them for 150 years. I mean economic rape and plunder is pretty much the point of having an Empire, otherwise why bother?

 

[Corky]

Who then used slaves to do the leg work.

No evidence of that has been found, only films which people take as fact as it makes a good story. The leg work was carving the same piece of stone for 9 months, and they were honoured for doing so.

 

[SWP's back]

Yes but that kind of proves the point. That’s the bit we are taught along with ‘how we brought railroads’ to the subcontinent. You don’t get taught how we economically raped them for 150 years. I mean economic rape and plunder is pretty much the point of having an Empire, otherwise why bother?

I’m not disputing that, just saying it was impressive from such a small country. Same with Rome and their empire. The logistics and administration of both are nothing if not impressive.

 

[Bigga]

The thing that should happen is that once the Rhodes statue goes, his money and beneficence go with it! It seems to be a case of detesting the man but making use of his ill-gotten gains. Yer don't need one master's degree, let alone three. to come up with an English word that encompasses that mentality.

And the other way of looking at it is a form of 'repatriation', is it not...?

 

[BobKowalski]

I disagree.

I was taught in school about the Empire and the likes of Bloody Sunday, I have always known that Britain wasn’t always the good guys.

The left have a pretty tight grip in education these days too.

And what where you taught about Empire And Bloody Sunday? You’re younger than me so there may be aspects I am unaware of.

 

[Mike Cledford]

That’s exactly the point of the protests. All lives matter equally but currently some don’t. Unless you’ve seen somewhere it described as only black lives matter or black lives matter more? I can only assume that the ‘all lives matter’ posts are deliberately missing the point

Dont be silly.
All lives matter to me and l would hope they do to you.

There's a section downstairs can start a debate in this if you wish to have a rational discussion on this.


Can we get back to enraged about the original topic and their wumming of their listeners to get money in?

Yes l was about to say the same.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Nah, what you're saying is that the racists want open display of the tyrannical rule of oppressors. That's been 'accepted' for decades.

Those same racists can't say shit if they were in museums, where they belong, as long as they're not destroyed.

They can lament their collective losses there.

We’ll never let you forget!
Give us back our spuds, ye bastards.
I find the location of this in Dublin perfect.

It is at the Docklands leading to the Jeannie Johnson Emigration Famine Ship.
This is at the Famine museum.

Just to support your point Bigga, no matter how big a **** the offending statue was during his lifetime if it can be housed at a suitable memorial/museum that actually tells the true story including the history of the statue being erected and removed and why, then I see that itself as educational.
If the same investment was put into the preserving of the real history as there was at the time of erecting a now inappropriate statue, more lessons would be learned for future generations than merely airbrushing the statue off our/your streets.

 

[mcfc1632]

Who then used slaves to do the leg work.

There is some debate about whether slaves or peasants actually did the labour - but it does not matter the use of slaves was widespread in Egypt during the years that these people ruled - so absolutely!! - tear down those pyramids!!

 

[Mike Cledford]

Which is lazy, disingenuous which helps ignore all of the current and historic issues, in my opinion - but like I said, it is for another thread

I agree completely.
With the last 5 words.
No more please.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

I’m not disputing that, just saying it was impressive from such a small country. Same with Rome and their empire. The logistics and administration of both are nothing if not impressive.

And as immoral now as it was then, despite them always having their god/gods on their side.

 

[BobKowalski]

We’ll never let you forget!
Give us back our spuds, ye bastards.
I find the location of this in Dublin perfect.

It is at the Docklands leading to the Jeannie Johnson Emigration Famine Ship.
This is at the Famine museum.

Just to support your point Bigga, no matter how big a **** the offending statue was during his lifetime if it can be housed at a suitable memorial/museum that actually tells the true story including the history of the statue being erected and removed and why, then I see that itself as educational.
If the same investment was put into the preserving of the real history as there was at the time of erecting a now inappropriate statue, more lessons would be learned for future generations than merely airbrushing the statue off our/your streets.

The point about rehousing the Colston statue and telling the full story behind it and the man , including why it was erected and how it was removed and why is a good one.

 

[richardtheref]

Gone With The Wind now banned. Do they honestly think that by banning films like this it will mean that slavery never happened. Why not ban all WW2 films as we would never want people to know what happened to the Jews.
Also how is it ok to pull down a statue in Bristol but when Gandi's statute is vandalised is is in the press that it is a disgrace and the Indian govt want an apology.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

I disagree.

I was taught in school about the Empire and the likes of Bloody Sunday, I have always known that Britain wasn’t always the good guys.

The left have a pretty tight grip in education these days too.

I went to Lostock School in Stretford and we were taught about the brutal slave trade. I don’t know anyone who wouldn’t know that the British Empire was brutal. The British people also did many amazing things during these periods.

Bloody Sunday could be taught for what it was (an atrocity) as long as there is balance and IRA (and their Protestant equivalents) are shown to be the murderers they are, rather than the romanticised rewriting of history that has taken place since the end of the troubles. The lessons would need to include Tony Blair only writing letters of comfort for murderers on ones side and prosecutions only targeting one side.

 

[urban genie]

Gone With The Wind now banned. Do they honestly think that by banning films like this it will mean that slavery never happened. Why not ban all WW2 films as we would never want people to know what happened to the Jews.
Also how is it ok to pull down a statue in Bristol but when Gandi's statute is vandalised is is in the press that it is a disgrace and the Indian govt want an apology.

It's not banned don't be dramatic, HBO have pulled it from their service that is all.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

The point about rehousing the Colston statue and telling the full story behind it and the man , including why it was erected and how it was removed and why is a good one.

If you had a suitable facility/museum in the city that acknowledged the city’s slave trading past, you could and there could be educational value.
However if not, what do you do? Melt it down? Keep it in storage until such a facility exists?

Up to yourselves. If it was voted for to come down I wouldn’t much lament the knocking it down, but I don’t think there will be any progress in the message being remembered for future generations unless the same effort goes into funding something or somewhere that tells the true story that is being protested against.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Do you include emmeline pankhurst in that or Florence nightingale? They both have statues. I think Alan Turing has one as well

they are part of our history. But no let’s just erase that because left wing nut jobs don’t like our history or anything British

by all means put the slave trader ones in museums, but the list is getting ridiculous now

This is one of the problems of judging history through today’s lenses. Some of the early women pioneers were from affluent families (including the first women doctors and suffragettes) but what they achieved was remarkable in the context of their times.

 

[Ban-jani]

And what where you taught about Empire And Bloody Sunday? You’re younger than me so there may be aspects I am unaware of.

How we colonised the world and forced innocent people into giving their land, as a basic overview, but they did highlight the industrial progression and some other positives.

Bloody Sunday again, that people were killed in the atrocity that were unarmed.

My sister is at university and despite being a Labour voter herself, she admits it’s very left wing from top to bottom.

 

[stonerblue]

Yes but Rhodesia, the country, isn’t.

Seeing as Rhodesia was named after Cecil Rhodes and Rhodes the island wasn’t then it’s fair to say you incorrectly corrected GDM.

Unless this is some weird Clarkie.

I'm not even sure Rhodesia is a country..