Dayot Upamecano

Sir Joe Aguero said:
Are we really comparing Mangala with a World Cup & Balon D'or winner?

You're right, it's incredibly rare to find a CB that ticks every box, but for the price, his age, his physical and technical ability, I think he's the best realistic option. Having a stronger team & Pep coaching him could improve him dramatically in terms of concentration. He'd be a massive upgrade to Otamendi & Stones.
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You keep repeating pace and power are two "huge parts of the game", Cannavaro proves that is just a myth, he had neither in abundance and yet was the best defender in the world for a time and is as far as I'm concerned, still the best defender I've ever seen. Mangala was just used as an example/comparison to show pace and power doesn't always translate into being a good defender.

That's all fairy tales and optimism, you can't say Upamecano is a massive upgrade on Stones yet because right now, he suffers from exactly same lapses of concentration, that plague Stones. Stones coincidentally has worked with a stronger team and Pep and still hasn't improved in that area of his game, which completely debunks that myth too. There's no guarantees Upamecano will improve, like I said it's hope and fairy tales at this stage, he may he may not.
 
ctid1894 said:
You keep repeating pace and power are two "huge parts of the game", Cannavaro proves that is just a myth, he had neither in abundance and yet was the best defender in the world for a time and is as far as I'm concerned, still the best defender I've ever seen. Mangala was just used as an example/comparison to show pace and power doesn't always translate into being a good defender.

That's all fairy tales and optimism, you can't say Upamecano is a massive upgrade on Stones yet because right now, he suffers from exactly same lapses of concentration, that plague Stones. Stones coincidentally has worked with a stronger team and Pep and still hasn't improved in that area of his game, which completely debunks that myth too. There's no guarantees Upamecano will improve, like I said it's hope and fairy tales at this stage, he may he may not.
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WHAT!!!!!!

Best defender you have seen is Cannavaro

Have you never seen Richard Dunne play for us blues

Give your head a wobble
 
ctid1894 said:
You keep repeating pace and power are two "huge parts of the game", Cannavaro proves that is just a myth, he had neither in abundance and yet was the best defender in the world for a time and is as far as I'm concerned, still the best defender I've ever seen. Mangala was just used as an example/comparison to show pace and power doesn't always translate into being a good defender.

That's all fairy tales and optimism, you can't say Upamecano is a massive upgrade on Stones yet because right now, he suffers from exactly same lapses of concentration, that plague Stones. Stones coincidentally has worked with a stronger team and Pep and still hasn't improved in that area of his game, which completely debunks that myth too. There's no guarantees Upamecano will improve, like I said it's hope and fairy tales at this stage, he may he may not.
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Don't know what player you were watching, but Cannavaro was known for his pace.
 
I think our system asks an awful lot of any CB and even Cannavaro would have made some hard to watch mistakes in it. I know Uoamecano has been playing in a 5 back so maybe it is similar there but I would worry about any player who is mistake prone in a less aggressive system because they will just be put under more pressure in ours.

Even Laporte has had a few ugly errors but he’s so remarkable because he is so consistent
 
Lots of arguments here but I dont think anyone can deny a CB with good recovery pace amongst other things would be ideal. Dayot might have made a few mistakes but lets not forget he's 21 and if theres anyone who can iron out mistakes its Guardiola. Upamecano has good recovery pace and is super tall - two things we do lack. Few things he needs to work on but he would be my choice personally - can play both LCB and RCB too
 
ctid1894 said:
He certainly wasn't slow but he wasn't exactly Kyle Walker quick either, not by any stretch of the imagination.
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IMO, I don't think that defenders always need to be super quick but I'll qualify that by saying that it depends upon the systems of play employed by the team they're in.
Footballing intelligence / reading the game / good positioning and the occasional 'tactical' foul can mean an awful lot, so slowish defenders can be fantastic behind a low block, but I feel that playing a high line, as we do, means that being quick is crucially important to us.
Think how many times the sprint speed of one or other of our defenders has snuffed out a threat, in recent seasons, and I think you'll appreciate that if we didn't have some blistering pace at the back we'd have conceded many more goals in recent seasons
 
Stones and Otamendi are not fast yet they played very well in the 2017/18 for us. Key is pressing from the forwards, if that is bad then slowish defenders can be exposed as opponent can have their time choosing their passes. So yes to cover all bases fast CBs would be ideal but its not everything.

Mangala brutally proved that speed means fuck all if you lack the other things.
 
MeatHunterrr said:
Stones and Otamendi are not fast yet they played very well in the 2017/18 for us. Key is pressing from the forwards, if that is bad then slowish defenders can be exposed as opponent can have their time choosing their passes. So yes to cover all bases fast CBs would be ideal but its not everything.

Mangala brutally proved that speed means fuck all if you lack the other things.
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I couldn't agree more. There's no perspective with the majority of posters when it comes to central defenders, if they're not 6'4, built like a tank and faster than Usain Bolt in his hayday, it's like nothing else is acceptable. When you're absolutely right, if we get the pressing right, then defenders won't be exposed. Ederson's starting position is vital as well, he can mitigate any potential threats from long balls.
 
MeatHunterrr said:
Stones and Otamendi are not fast yet they played very well in the 2017/18 for us. Key is pressing from the forwards, if that is bad then slowish defenders can be exposed as opponent can have their time choosing their passes. So yes to cover all bases fast CBs would be ideal but its not everything.

Mangala brutally proved that speed means fuck all if you lack the other things.
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Stones isn't lightning quick, but he's not Otamendi slow. I haven't checked stats, but I'd imagine Stones and Otamendi were usually paired with Kompany or Laporte. For me it's more about CB pairings and also opposition. I wouldn't want Fernandinho and Garcia against Burnley. So with Kompany gone and Otamendi on his way out soon, we need that physical and hopefully quick CB that can pair with Garcia, Fernandinho. Saying that IMO Upamecano isn't as physical or quick as people think. I don't think he's particularly good with the ball either.
 
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OliMCFC said:
Lots of arguments here but I dont think anyone can deny a CB with good recovery pace amongst other things would be ideal. Dayot might have made a few mistakes but lets not forget he's 21 and if theres anyone who can iron out mistakes its Guardiola. Upamecano has good recovery pace and is super tall - two things we do lack. Few things he needs to work on but he would be my choice personally - can play both LCB and RCB too
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Pep hasn't ironed out Stones mistakes
 
Akpowell said:
Pep hasn't ironed out Stones mistakes
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Stones issue is his mentality. He's got the talent and Pep's improved his playing skills, but he cant fix a weaker mentality like Stones has suffered with in recent months
 
Stones isn’t just a mentality problem. He hasn’t progressed as a defender. He still lets attackers run at him and turn him in the open field. He will be better in a system which doesn’t force him to defend as much space
 
teddykgb said:
Stones isn’t just a mentality problem. He hasn’t progressed as a defender. He still lets attackers run at him and turn him in the open field. He will be better in a system which doesn’t force him to defend as much space
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A system played by teams other than City.
 
OccupiedPalestineBlues said:
IMO, I don't think that defenders always need to be super quick but I'll qualify that by saying that it depends upon the systems of play employed by the team they're in.
Footballing intelligence / reading the game / good positioning and the occasional 'tactical' foul can mean an awful lot, so slowish defenders can be fantastic behind a low block, but I feel that playing a high line, as we do, means that being quick is crucially important to us.
Think how many times the sprint speed of one or other of our defenders has snuffed out a threat, in recent seasons, and I think you'll appreciate that if we didn't have some blistering pace at the back we'd have conceded many more goals in recent seasons
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I appreciate what you're saying but a good defender in my opinion is proactive, not reactive.

Speed of thought will generally beat speed of foot, anticipating the pass and giving yourself a 5 yard headstart is far better than having to chase someone down in a recovery run.

It's what makes the difference between the Micah Richard's (who I love by the way) and the Aymeric Laporte's; Laporte will have to make a recovery run once every 3 games, whereas Micah it would be 3 times each game. Micah is/was far quicker, so it doesn't make sense that pace is so crucial.
 
bluwes said:
A system played by teams other than City.
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Yes I agree. He needs to move imo he’s just going to continue to be exposed here. Unfortunately for him and maybe for us his English HG status gives him value that his actual impact may not warrant.
 
ctid1894 said:
The only problem Stones has had is a failure to eradicate mistakes from his game, exactly the same problem Upamecano has. A lot of posters say Upamecano will learn to eradicate those mistakes with experience but the exact same was said about Stones a few years ago, there's no guarantees.

He's got a lot of potential but that's all it is, the exact same as Stones, Garcia and Adaradiayo but still people claim we should spend a small fortune on him, I don't get it.
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We paid £50 million for Stones who Pep wanted, but came with two faults injuries and mistakes, but Pep wanted a footballer,even with Stones out Garcia did not force his way into the team and that is how i view him, Stones still has a lot of injuries and nearly all the mistakes come from the first 3 games back, we need 1 if not 2 CB`s as Fernandinho and Otamendi are good stop gaps but are not good enough, Upamecano is a first team player at a top club who is on his last year of his contract who can play left and right better than what we have, we could use Angelino as a make weight as well.
 
You do know Upamecano and Angelino both play in the first team for RB Leipzig?

So if it automatically makes Upamecano good enough, surely the same is true for Angelino as well?

Otherwise it hardly constitutes a good argument does it.
 
ctid1894 said:
You do know Upamecano and Angelino both play in the first team for RB Leipzig?

So if it automatically makes Upamecano good enough, surely the same is true for Angelino as well?

Otherwise it hardly constitutes a good argument does it.
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I think you're onto something genius here. We should use this argument every time a club comes knocking on our door, wanting to snatch one of our best players.

"Oh, so you want De Bruyne? We'll just give you Otamendi instead. He plays for our first team as well."
 
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