Keir Starmer

No I don’t, I don’t support racism of any kind and if Blairites have been racist towards Abbott, I totally oppose that.

Do you not think that’s whataboutism though? It’s always the same, fucking excuses and trying to point the finger elsewhere.

Are you mistaking the fact that the Labour membership just overwhelmingly voted in Starmer and you’re effectively doing exactly the same thing by opposing the democratic will of the membership?

You see, from the outside, you all look as bad as each other and your mistake is ignoring that Starmer has a better chance of winning an election and enacting some social change to make improvements and whilst it’s not exactly what you want, it’s closer to what you want than the Tories being in.

Labour have tried socialism, it’s not won since the 1970s.

The labour party election where members didn't get to vote or were purged by the gen sec, that election you mean. Socialism never got a chance and you and others are suffering the consequences as a result.

Starmer will be opposed because by the left because he is not of the left. We oppose him like we oppose anybody else not of the left, whatever party they may be in.

And how we may look on the outside is of no consequence , it cant get any worse because of the stuff that has been spread about. Like I said where have all the AS stories gone to? where have all the Hamas stories gone too? Where has all the bacon butty stories gone?

The RW media have their lapdog and they are happy. If there is no opposition then the neo-liberalism carries on unabated and that is what it is about, as always its about money, the control of money and the subjugation of the working class in order that the working class vote against their own interests and in the interests of the capitalists.

Woof Woof
 
The labour party election where members didn't get to vote or were purged by the gen sec, that election you mean. Socialism never got a chance and you and others are suffering the consequences as a result.

Starmer will be opposed because by the left because he is not of the left. We oppose him like we oppose anybody else not of the left, whatever party they may be in.

And how we may look on the outside is of no consequence , it cant get any worse because of the stuff that has been spread about. Like I said where have all the AS stories gone to? where have all the Hamas stories gone too? Where has all the bacon butty stories gone?

The RW media have their lapdog and they are happy. If there is no opposition then the neo-liberalism carries on unabated and that is what it is about, as always its about money, the control of money and the subjugation of the working class in order that the working class vote against their own interests and in the interests of the capitalists.

Woof Woof

Oh behave purged, they all fled to the SWP and Galloway’s latest project. No one has forced them to go.

You’re the political Scousers, it’s no wonder why Liverpool is full of socialists.

Victimhood is oozing out of you.

Why would the Hamas stories carry on? They were related to Corbyn and his leadership, who called Hamas “friends”, Starmer doesn’t get involved in that so why would it continue?

You’ve just said the socialists have been purged, maybe that’s where the AS went? Or were you exaggerating and it’s still there?

I’m doing perfectly well thank you.

I actually think you’re beyond help, the delusion has gone so far that you’re now operating outside of reality.

Enjoy your Morning Star every morning.
 
Liverpool aint Socialist, it was always a traditional Tory city.

The SWP, I am not even sure exists anymore and Galloway is Galloway. He may get some support, he is Socialist, but I cant see it.

You are accusing all those who were purged of AS, you realise that don't you. It was always exaggerated despite you banging on and on about it for months.

And personal too, how lovely of you. Bless ya.

I will continue enjoying the Morning Star, the NS, the Economist, the Sunday Times and the Beano thanks.
 
Oh behave purged, they all fled to the SWP and Galloway’s latest project. No one has forced them to go.

You’re the political Scousers, it’s no wonder why Liverpool is full of socialists.

Victimhood is oozing out of you.

Why would the Hamas stories carry on? They were related to Corbyn and his leadership, who called Hamas “friends”, Starmer doesn’t get involved in that so why would it continue?

You’ve just said the socialists have been purged, maybe that’s where the AS went? Or were you exaggerating and it’s still there?

I’m doing perfectly well thank you.

I actually think you’re beyond help, the delusion has gone so far that you’re now operating outside of reality.

Enjoy your Morning Star every morning.
It is a bit weird the way AS etc has just gone away as soon as Corbyn went if it's a institutional / systemic problem within the party. Certainly there is an AS problem, but it seemed to reach a crescendo in the lead up to the GE and stop as soon as Corbyn agreed to go. As there was no actual change in the party then it's difficult to reach any conclusion other than as an issue AS was cynically mobilised by JC's opponents.
 
There’s been just as much infighting and backstabbing in the Tory Party and yet they’ve still beaten Corbyn’s Labour.

Are the papers full of headlines about Tory Islamophobia, Tory Racism, Tory corruption, Johnson eating bacon butties in a funny way, Patel visiting Israel. Even the death figures from Covid rarely merit a mention, the RW media is fixated on BLM, Antifa and other far right obsessions as per normal. So much falsehood imprinted on the minds of so many by so few for the interests of the 1%

Any threat to the hegemony is ruthlessly attacked. Whether there is truth in the message or not it matters not as mud sticks and as you have shown on countless occasions in this thread that mud has led you to believe that all Labour members are SCUM.
 
Are the papers full of headlines about Tory Islamophobia, Tory Racism, Tory corruption, Johnson eating bacon butties in a funny way, Patel visiting Israel. Even the death figures from Covid rarely merit a mention, the RW media is fixated on BLM, Antifa and other far right obsessions as per normal. So much falsehood imprinted on the minds of so many by so few for the interests of the 1%

Any threat to the hegemony is ruthlessly attacked. Whether there is truth in the message or not it matters not as mud sticks and as you have shown on countless occasions in this thread that mud has led you to believe that all Labour members are SCUM.

This last line is a total and utter lie, despite me saying on the previous page that I never said the members were scum.

Ive specifically told you I was referring to the antisemites and those that used it as a weapon.

YOU are the only person who has said referred to the whole party and falsely claimed I am saying everyone involved in Labour is scum.

Regarding the rest of your post, how the fuck do you know if you only read the Morning Star, as you’ve claimed?

The Guardian, Independent and Mirror are all very anti Tory and have mentioned the Islamophobia.

The Tories have been hammered in these newspapers for years, you just don’t read them or are too blinkered to see it.
 
This last line is a total and utter lie, despite me saying on the previous page that I never said the members were scum.

Ive specifically told you I was referring to the antisemites and those that used it as a weapon.

YOU are the only person who has said referred to the whole party and falsely claimed I am saying everyone involved in Labour is scum.

Regarding the rest of your post, how the fuck do you know if you only read the Morning Star, as you’ve claimed?

The Guardian, Independent and Mirror are all very anti Tory and have mentioned the Islamophobia.

The Tories have been hammered in these newspapers for years, you just don’t read them or are too blinkered to see it.
You bang on and on and on about AS, you have banged on for months. Your hatred of Socialism is plainly obvious, but you are a contrarian very much in the likeness of Brendan O'Neill.

The online Indy, the failing Guardian ad the Mirror isn't really much opposition to the mass of the RW media, or do you not read them like you claim to do. You claim to read lots of stuff but I doubt you even read The Dandy such is the paucity of your political opinion beyond your obsession. The contrariness is atypical of a person without political belief, you are an anti-believer rather than a believer. You did the same with ANTIFA, you showed a little knowledge is a dangerous tool in the wrong box.

I dont have a clue what you are for, i know what the likes of AC and Cheesy are for, i know what Urban stands for, i even thought i knew what BT stood for, but you i have no clue. An Anti person knows what he dislikes, he doesn't know what he stands for, its widespread in society today, its not your fault that emptiness exists in place of passion.

Throughout this thread you have been rabidly anti-Socialist without once acknowledging what you believe in, that marks you out as a WUM, here for effect, giggles and gotcha's rather than serious political opinion. The only thing i can see is you like Starmer, there is no reason given, its a statement without reason or thought, it is just a statement in my opinion designed to try and get a rise out of people who you know hold passionate beliefs and who will react to your posts out of exasperation at your continual assaults on our beliefs.

Vive le revolution, contrarians will be sent to the Gulag's to be educated in the cause. Then you will have an opinion beyond "but AS"

Well done you got a rise out of me last night, you didn't get a political debate though, because you have no politics to defend.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mat
You bang on and on and on about AS, you have banged on for months. Your hatred of Socialism is plainly obvious, but you are a contrarian very much in the likeness of Brendan O'Neill.

The online Indy, the failing Guardian ad the Mirror isn't really much opposition to the mass of the RW media, or do you not read them like you claim to do. You claim to read lots of stuff but I doubt you even read The Dandy such is the paucity of your political opinion beyond your obsession. The contrariness is atypical of a person without political belief, you are an anti-believer rather than a believer. You did the same with ANTIFA, you showed a little knowledge is a dangerous tool in the wrong box.

I dont have a clue what you are for, i know what the likes of AC and Cheesy are for, i know what Urban stands for, i even thought i knew what BT stood for, but you i have no clue. An Anti person knows what he dislikes, he doesn't know what he stands for, its widespread in society today, its not your fault that emptiness exists in place of passion.

Throughout this thread you have been rabidly anti-Socialist without once acknowledging what you believe in, that marks you out as a WUM, here for effect, giggles and gotcha's rather than serious political opinion. The only thing i can see is you like Starmer, there is no reason given, its a statement without reason or thought, it is just a statement in my opinion designed to try and get a rise out of people who you know hold passionate beliefs and who will react to your posts out of exasperation at your continual assaults on our beliefs.

Vive le revolution, contrarians will be sent to the Gulag's to be educated in the cause. Then you will have an opinion beyond "but AS"

Well done you got a rise out of me last night, you didn't get a political debate though, because you have no politics to defend.
Whereas yours are indefensible.
 
The most damaging line to your success as political ideologues is the insistence that Corbyn would have got in if the general public weren’t manipulated by the media and Blairites in the party.

The sheer gall to patronise the electorate to this degree is why they will reject your politics every time.
It's this blind refusal to accept that far left policies, as espoused by Corbyn, is
never going to gain traction in this country, or indeed many others. Not only do they
believe it's popular, when each and every time it's rejected, the excuses are always the
same, the media, the traitors, the stupidity of the electorate.
I can't understand why the left never gets this.
 
You bang on and on and on about AS, you have banged on for months. Your hatred of Socialism is plainly obvious, but you are a contrarian very much in the likeness of Brendan O'Neill.

The online Indy, the failing Guardian ad the Mirror isn't really much opposition to the mass of the RW media, or do you not read them like you claim to do. You claim to read lots of stuff but I doubt you even read The Dandy such is the paucity of your political opinion beyond your obsession. The contrariness is atypical of a person without political belief, you are an anti-believer rather than a believer. You did the same with ANTIFA, you showed a little knowledge is a dangerous tool in the wrong box.

I dont have a clue what you are for, i know what the likes of AC and Cheesy are for, i know what Urban stands for, i even thought i knew what BT stood for, but you i have no clue. An Anti person knows what he dislikes, he doesn't know what he stands for, its widespread in society today, its not your fault that emptiness exists in place of passion.

Throughout this thread you have been rabidly anti-Socialist without once acknowledging what you believe in, that marks you out as a WUM, here for effect, giggles and gotcha's rather than serious political opinion. The only thing i can see is you like Starmer, there is no reason given, its a statement without reason or thought, it is just a statement in my opinion designed to try and get a rise out of people who you know hold passionate beliefs and who will react to your posts out of exasperation at your continual assaults on our beliefs.

Vive le revolution, contrarians will be sent to the Gulag's to be educated in the cause. Then you will have an opinion beyond "but AS"

Well done you got a rise out of me last night, you didn't get a political debate though, because you have no politics to defend.

I have banged on about antisemitism for months, because I really give a shit about it and how it’s affected people in the UK. Jewish voters were really worried about Labour winning in December and it was a very serious issue in the party.

Your lack of care, lack of will to do something about it and view of Corbyn at any cost, is what we should be talking about.

I’m not the one who should be apologising for talking about and against AS, you should be for ignoring it and defending the party for the sake of your ideology.

You can keep calling me Brendan O’Neill all you like, play the man if you wish, I’m not going to rise to that.

I do read a cross section of papers, the media on the Tories is probably more negative than positive, the Mail and even Telegraph have hammered Johnson and Cummings recently, quite rightly. The Indy and Guardian have been at them intensely since Brexit.

Of course, you’ve admitted you only read the Morning Star so you wouldn’t know but you’re painting a false picture based on what you think might be going on, the media disagrees with each other a lot and even the papers to the right criticise the government.

Have you ever thought that Corbyn was that unpopular and that poor of a candidate that the public and media just didn’t like him, rather than there being some conspiracy to stop him?

Well I’ll have to let people decide if I’m here to WUM or not, it’s not my intention of being on the forum, I think I’m often guilty of speaking too much and not letting go of a discussion, rather than trying to wind people up.

Again, I’ve told you my beliefs, I believe in liberty under law as a base and from there I look at policies/manifestos specifically and individually before voting. You could call it Third Way but then again it’s often tied to Blair and there are things Blair did I disagree with, despite him being a very effective PM.

Very generally speaking a competitive market place with a safety net for those who fall on hard times or cannot work is the basis of what I want and someone who’s very effective at doing the above.

I can’t stand staunch ideologues who only look at politics through the prism of one belief, left or right.

Just because I’ve not nailed a flag to my post, in the name of socialism, liberalism or whatever, doesn’t mean I don’t have strong beliefs.

I’m not trying to get a rise out of you. I’m actually pissed off at your incessant patronising and lashing out because, as you’ve admitted, you’re now bitter following December.

You know more than me and probably every one else on this board but that doesn’t mean your opinion is more worthy and it doesn’t mean you can act condescendingly towards others, it also doesn’t mean you’ve not become totally deluded.
 
Last edited:
Why the fuck is Starmer still broadly supportive of this government.

It is so frustrating watching him being nice and the media going nuts over his app reply.

What about the total mismanagement of the crisis and the unreal amount of deaths in care homes. He should be nailing Johnsons hat on not being broadly supportive on the ****.
 
I can’t stand staunch ideologues who only look at politics through the prism of one belief, left or right.


You know more than me and probably every one else on this board but that doesn’t mean your opinion is more worthy and it doesn’t mean you can act condescendingly towards others, it also doesn’t mean you’ve not become totally deluded.

I will answer these two points and leave it, this isnt a place that should be dominated by me and you arguing.

I am an idealogue, i have beliefs, i have come to those beliefs by being broadly read and understanding how the right of politics comes to its conclusions. I weighed up the arguments and i believe Socialism is better, so yes i am ideologue because i have beliefs based on being educated in all sides of the debate.

I dont know more than anyone else at all, that is nonsense, i know what i know, it does not mean what others know is not as relevant. If you find me condescending then maybe i am in your case, i dont intend to be, but if that is how it comes across then sorry about that.
 
Why the fuck is Starmer still broadly supportive of this government.

It is so frustrating watching him being nice and the media going nuts over his app reply.

What about the total mismanagement of the crisis and the unreal amount of deaths in care homes. He should be nailing Johnsons hat on not being broadly supportive on the ****.
I think it is called choosing your battles. He has been excellent in my opinion. Simple questions with sharp focus. As they say ' there isnt a man in a mansion, an accurate pen wont puncture'.
He has set the agenda about the App and the promises made. His caviated backing of current lifting of lock down is not a reflection of his view on the whole fiasco. It allows his question to stand and hit home. Corbyn was all bluster and overlong in explaining ill targeted questions. Even a 10 year old could side step. He was all about positioning and not about accountability of the government.
 
I will answer these two points and leave it, this isnt a place that should be dominated by me and you arguing.

I am an idealogue, i have beliefs, i have come to those beliefs by being broadly read and understanding how the right of politics comes to its conclusions. I weighed up the arguments and i believe Socialism is better, so yes i am ideologue because i have beliefs based on being educated in all sides of the debate.

I dont know more than anyone else at all, that is nonsense, i know what i know, it does not mean what others know is not as relevant. If you find me condescending then maybe i am in your case, i dont intend to be, but if that is how it comes across then sorry about that.

There’s nothing wrong with having beliefs, I just have a problem with people who have those beliefs at any cost and want to enact them even in areas where it’s a bad idea.

For example the nationalising of Openreach, which the former CEO said would cost many jobs across the country, would be a complete disaster, as it was in Australia when they tried the same policy.

It was an ideological decision and not one borne out of necessity or objective analysis of it being a success. I just don’t think it’s the right way to run a country.

And don’t get me started on the ridiculous amount of identity politics in the party.

Well I think you likely have a larger knowledge base to call upon than anyone on here but I appreciate the apology.
 
Consistently opposing is all well and good, and it's certainly much easier than governing.
How long has Starmer been leader now? Before him, everyone knew exactly what Corbyn
and his front bench represented, I'm not talking about manifestos, but so far, nobody
has a Scooby whether Starmer is going down the same route, has totally different policies
and ideas, or has no idea himself. If this govt, for whatever reason,suddenly collapsed, would we
vote Labour just for the sake of it? No, so is he a full on Socialist, a left leaning traditionalist,
does he support nationalisation? etc; etc;
As yet, he's just an insipid sniper, let's have some meat on the bones.
 
Some hot takes on here. Starmer doesn't need to write a manifesto right now so why would he.

Tories are doing what tories do, incompetence and corruption. Starmer just needs to keep asking the right questions and he does that very well.
 
He's got 4 and a half years in opposition, and given the state of the country and world at this point coming up with policies that could be irrelevant is just something to be undone at the first opportunity.

His job is to hold the government to account, highlight their lies and broken promises and make sure the media and public hear it. He has no power to do much else. I didn't even mind Corbyn so much in that role, the issue for him was the minute they came up with a manifesto and you were presented with him, McDonnell and Abbott as the alternative it became unpalatable. Hopefully when Starmer's time comes his manifesto and team is stronger and more respectful of humanity, science and natural law and British society.
 
He's got 4 and a half years in opposition, and given the state of the country and world at this point coming up with policies that could be irrelevant is just something to be undone at the first opportunity.

His job is to hold the government to account, highlight their lies and broken promises and make sure the media and public hear it. He has no power to do much else. I didn't even mind Corbyn so much in that role, the issue for him was the minute they came up with a manifesto and you were presented with him, McDonnell and Abbott as the alternative it became unpalatable. Hopefully when Starmer's time comes his manifesto and team is stronger and more respectful of humanity, science and natural law and British society.

Agree. The No1 priority is to expose the failings of tories. The tories would like him to do almost anything else (as would some corbynites who are desperate to label him as blairite scum). Starmer is playing this very well, keep all the focus on tory failings. There is no point in giving exposure to any other issue when they are making such a mess. Direction of travel in polls backs it up.
 
Some hot takes on here. Starmer doesn't need to write a manifesto right now so why would he.

Tories are doing what tories do, incompetence and corruption. Starmer just needs to keep asking the right questions and he does that very well.
I've said, nobody's expecting manifesto's, but for all we know Starmer's views
may be outlandish, fair, or unworkable. The Tories are in power, and whatever
these questions are, can simply bat them away in the knowledge that the questioner
has nothing to offer as alternatives as nobody knows what they are.
So it's like being mithered by an irrelevant nuisance every week.
I believe the reasons are simple, he cannot upset the members, who are chock
full of Corbynites, his cabinet comprises of a few that are viewed by the electorate
as toxic, the Blairite wing, he knows, are the only possible election winners, so he's got to
appease everyone by being Mr Bland.
So we're seeing a re run of fence sitting of the type adopted by Jezza, and
we know what happened to him.
 
I've said, nobody's expecting manifesto's, but for all we know Starmer's views
may be outlandish, fair, or unworkable. The Tories are in power, and whatever
these questions are, can simply bat them away in the knowledge that the questioner
has nothing to offer as alternatives as nobody knows what they are.
So it's like being mithered by an irrelevant nuisance every week.
I believe the reasons are simple, he cannot upset the members, who are chock
full of Corbynites, his cabinet comprises of a few that are viewed by the electorate
as toxic, the Blairite wing, he knows, are the only possible election winners, so he's got to
appease everyone by being Mr Bland.
So we're seeing a re run of fence sitting of the type adopted by Jezza, and
we know what happened to him.
So, 6 months after an election hiding, 3 months into a Covid pandemic and the biggest economic crisis the country has ever faced, 3 months in the job and 5 months away from a possible no deal Brexit and you think Starmer should have a manifesto? I appreciate that you don’t think the current government can do any wrong but that’s a bit far-fetched, even for you.
 

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top