Gabriel
Well-Known Member
Think it would probably take two footballers in Scotland. ;-)
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Think it would probably take two footballers in Scotland. ;-)
Saddleworth2
Well-Known Member
HmmmmThey didn’t need to be similar, that’s the whole point.
But if you do want to compare, as I’ve said, the UK locked down earlier in both calendar days and number of cases per head of population, well I’ve based that on the figures you gave me.
Every time someone brings up Jacinda Ardern to attack the UK’s response, a light goes out within human consciousness.
p.s. You haven't changed either.You’re perfectly welcome to that view, I’m not impressed by Johnson either (maybe for different reasons) but it’s the whole comparison that makes me laugh.
Geographical location, territory size, population, population centres, the fact the two largest cities (one about the size of Stockport) is on a different island to the other, no free movement to a continent such as Europe, airport sizes and use, tourists etc. etc. all come into it.
As I say, it’s half way to using the Falkland Islands as a yard stick.
If anyone uses Germany or France or Spain, then fair enough but not bloody NZ.
Hmmmm
p.s. You haven't changed either.
I can’t fathom how anyone could argue with my last post there.
Surely you appreciate it’s comparing two totally different circumstances and Germany is a much better comparison?
I’m not even defending Johnson, I think he’s been bullied into a lockdown by public opinion and has been weak and incompetent.
Saddleworth2
Well-Known Member
Its about the principles. Of course NZ is different to the UK and Scotland. But its not 20 vs 60,000 different (i'm using the excess deaths figure). The truth lies somewhere in between our argument. NZ response has been better because it locked down earlier in the cycle, closed its airspace, had an immeasurably better leader than we have. It was easier to do that for NZ because of the reasons you outlined. It would have been more difficult but by no means impossible for the UK to do the same. We would be in a better space now if we had. This is not hindsight. It is common sense that you do not allow travel from areas that are riddled with Virus. You just dont. We did.I can’t fathom how anyone could argue with my last post there.
Surely you appreciate it’s comparing two totally different circumstances and Germany is a much better comparison?
I’m not even defending Johnson, I think he’s been bullied into a lockdown by public opinion and has been weak and incompetent.
Its about the principles. Of course NZ is different to the UK and Scotland. But its not 20 vs 60,000 different (i'm using the excess deaths figure). The truth lies somewhere in between our argument. NZ response has been better because it locked down earlier in the cycle, closed its airspace, had an immeasurably better leader than we have. It was easier to do that for NZ because of the reasons you outlined. It would have been more difficult but by no means impossible for the UK to do the same. We would be in a better space now if we had. This is not hindsight. It is common sense that you do not allow travel from areas that are riddled with Virus. You just dont. We did.
We couldn’t have stopped the travel but we should have quarantined earlier.
It absolutely would have been impossible to keep ours to anywhere near as low as NZ’s figures, they found it in France in December, there’s no way it wasn’t here too.
Don’t use excess deaths, it’s not accurate to describe the actual deaths, I’m not even sure the way Covid-19 is going on death certificates that our way of counting is.
But anyway, NZ is totally different to the UK as a country, use our larger European neighbours don’t use NZ, it’s a terrible comparison.
Saddleworth2
Well-Known Member
Oh well, I tried.We couldn’t have stopped the travel but we should have quarantined earlier.
It absolutely would have been impossible to keep ours to anywhere near as low as NZ’s figures, they found it in France in December, there’s no way it wasn’t here too.
Don’t use excess deaths, it’s not accurate to describe the actual deaths, I’m not even sure the way Covid-19 is going on death certificates that our way of counting is.
But anyway, NZ is totally different to the UK as a country, use our larger European neighbours don’t use NZ, it’s a terrible comparison.
Oh well, I tried.
And failed.
Saddleworth2
Well-Known Member
Not surprising with someone who thinks arithmetically the NZ experience is similar to the UKs when you take the respective population numbers into account. That’s beyond stupid. That you continue to think you are right is slightly troubling. Why did you take a break btw?And failed.
Not surprising with someone who thinks arithmetically the NZ experience is similar to the UKs when you take the respective population numbers into account. That’s beyond stupid. That you continue to think you are right is slightly troubling. Why did you take a break btw?
Not surprising when someone uses the one country who has Coronavirus totally under control in the Anglosphere/Europe as a stick to beat a government they don’t like with, despite the geographical position, population, tourism, borders, cities, are totally and utterly different.
They’re totally incomparable, I’ve said that several times now, how do you not know by now that I think comparing the two countries is hilariously stupid?
None of your business.
Saddleworth2
Well-Known Member
Not surprising when someone uses the one country who has Coronavirus totally under control in the Anglosphere/Europe as a stick to beat a government they don’t like with, despite the geographical position, population, tourism, borders, cities, are totally and utterly different.
They’re totally incomparable, I’ve said that several times now, how do you not know by now that I think comparing the two countries is hilariously stupid?
None of your business.
Oh, I have. I would far rather we had adopted say a New Zealand Approach than the Westminster approach whatever that was.
What were the key differences?
you asked me what the key differences were and now you don’t like the answer. Fairly typical. That’s me out. Go and bother someone else.
you asked me what the key differences were and now you don’t like the answer. Fairly typical. That’s me out. Go and bother someone else.
Differences in approach, not the circumstantial differences.
Never mind, let’s leave it.
Alan Harper's Tash
Well-Known Member
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Differences in approach, not the circumstantial differences.
Never mind, let’s leave it.
Falling out with everyone again I see.
I am not aware of any of the former on here - but there are many of the latterI think there is a little bit of hypocrisy evident in any of us that seek to not be in the EU, while insisting the Scots remain bound by the UK union. There is equal hypocrisy in those that wish for Scottish 'independence' but would then seek to enter the EU. I wish the Scots well in pursuit of true independence rather than just the jingoistic anti-English racist sort touted by the SNP.
Vicious111
Well-Known Member
200 cases is 0.004% of NZ’s population, 0.004% of our population is 264,000 cases.
It’s half way to comparing England with The Falkland Islands.
The math here is miles off, UK population is not 6.6 billion?
I agree that New Zealand had an easier task than the UK in general as we are a larger country with larger and more condensed population areas. However comparing 22 deaths with a population of 4.9M to 42600+ deaths with a population of 70M and simply reasoning the above is absolute nonsense.
1. NZ did not discuss herd immunity where as the UK Gov planned herd immunity initially then had to U-turn and take a different approach. We also wasted several critical early weeks when Italy, Spain and France had already closed their borders and gone into lock down. We should have done it immediately, like NZ did.
2. Did not enforce large scale events such as Cheltenham from not taking place. I don't know if this was out of stupidity, ignorance or pride.
3. Did not close or control people travelling in and out of the country and has no checks, screening or tracing. In NZ people were forced to quarantine for 14 days when they arrived. I believe we have only just implemented this.
4. Ardern didn't go about shaking hands with people with the fucking disease in hospitals...
But this whole situation has open a massive can of worms on the shocking levels of care at private care homes and, yet again, the failings of privatization as a concept. I can't genuinely think of one area where it has proven highly successful? The SNP (and rightly so in my opinion) look to be aggressively planning to renationalise the railways and protect the NHS against US firms. I wonder now if their focus will now turn towards care home operators.
Vicious111
Well-Known Member
Also worth noting that the Yes/No rate seems to have risen to Yes: 50/ No: 43 / Undecided: 7% in favour of independence. No doubt the performance of Sturgeon compared to that of Boris has played a part.
Not to mention Unionists making a right royal fucking tit of themselves and are alienating themselves from the rest of Scotland by attacking refugees and police in the streets. As a Rangers fan, these fucking knuckle draggers embarrass me and the club.
Not to mention Unionists making a right royal fucking tit of themselves and are alienating themselves from the rest of Scotland by attacking refugees and police in the streets. As a Rangers fan, these fucking knuckle draggers embarrass me and the club.
Ancient Citizen
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Good news about those figures, it'd be great if all the country could voteAlso worth noting that the Yes/No rate seems to have risen to Yes: 50/ No: 43 / Undecided: 7% in favour of independence. No doubt the performance of Sturgeon compared to that of Boris has played a part.
Not to mention Unionists making a right royal fucking tit of themselves and are alienating themselves from the rest of Scotland by attacking refugees and police in the streets. As a Rangers fan, these fucking knuckle draggers embarrass me and the club.
for Scots independence, they'd get what they want with a landslide.
Good news about those figures, it'd be great if all the country could vote
for Scots independence, they'd get what they want with a landslide.
It is funny how that point is completely different depending on who says it.
west didsblue
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I find it sad that there are English people who would delighted at the break up of a hugely successful 300 year union.It is funny how that point is completely different depending on who says it.
It also saddens me that there now appears to be a majority of Scots who feel that they would be better off outside the UK, however considering the way that the Tory government have treated the smaller nations of our union over the last 4 years, it doesn’t surprise me.
Saddleworth2
Well-Known Member
Was speaking to my kids at the weekend. The return to school looks a mess on the face of it. Only 30 % capacity and so many regulations. My son is seriously thinking about not letting his two go to primary school. It all seems unbalanced with pubs, cinemas likely reopening sooner. Local councils blaming 5he government and government blaming council. Swinney needs to think again.
I find it sad that there are English people who would delighted at the break up of a hugely successful 300 year union.
It also saddens me that there now appears to be a majority of Scots who feel that they would be better off outside the UK, however considering the way that the Tory government have treated the smaller nations of our union over the last 4 years, it doesn’t surprise me.
I'm not sure anything appears to be anything if I'm honest, and I still wouldn't believe there is enough of an appetite or desire for it. While i do acknowledge the apparent increase.
Otherwise, fair enough point.