Another new Brexit thread

[west didsblue]

When he starts calling people traitors it shows he's completely lost the plot.

At least I know what time it is.

 

[BobKowalski]

Well this aged well. There is two lines on the Indy ref and refusal to see or investigate anything about Brexit. Frankly anyone thinking that Russia skipped the 2016 referendum but interfered elsewhere is a fucking idiot. Have come to the conclusion we deserve everything coming our way with Brexit. We are not a serious country.

 

[Metal Biker]

At least I know what time it is.

Childish and pitiful.

There's nothing left in the tank, is there. :)

 

[meltonblue]

The issue is the one eyed approach im afraid.

Not a single fuck given about the then POTUS or the EU or the Hungarian Billionaire interfering from those making all the noise here.

Not a peep.

Russia? Lets have the evidence? 4 years of accusations and not a single remain campaign has come up with anything concrete and now this report doesn't either.

That’s a completely separate discussion though. The Russian government or diplomats providing their opinion on what we should do has always been prevalent too, that is still explicit though. The whole point of this (and the report you referenced earlier) is destabilisation through other means.

We're focussing on the referendum because this is the Brexit thread, which involved a referendum, a referendum that many on here said was influenced by the Russians.

Yep and you’re right if you’re saying it’s the wrong thread for it really. All that can be said for it in relevance to this is that we still don’t know and that the government actively sought to stop investigation into it. There’s no good news for people on either side of the debate (and even more so for people that have moved on!)

 

[blueinsa]

That’s a completely separate discussion though

I'm afraid it isn't, despite some on here trying to make it so.

Interference is interference yet many on here are happy to turn a blind eye so long as it suits.

I've said many times we should ban all political ads on social media in the midst of the CA furore but they dont want that.

They just want ads from the opposition banned.

Alleged (no proof given as of yet) Russian leave ads = bad

Soros remain ads = good.

Its difficult to have the conversation with anyone who feels this way.

 

[BobKowalski]

funnily enough I don’t remember these remain democrats banging on about our parliament approving trade deals that the eu executive were negotiating ?

happy to just let the eu do them.

All countries allow their Parliaments to vote on Trade deals. Refusing to allow ours a say is anachronistic and short sighted, even more so in a multi-nation Union like ours. We rushed through the WA without allowing Parliamentary scrutiny and are now screaming about what the WA contains. Push a trade deal through that impacts negatively on certain regions or Scotland or Wales with no debate or scrutiny then you just store up a lorry load of grief further down the line.

Scrutiny and debate are the hallmarks of a democracy.

 

[Vic]

Strange to see who are the posters that are objecting to the decision by parliament - maybe my mind is playing tricks - but they seem to be ones that were exulting not that long ago about the decision of the Supreme Court in the Miller case and the various vote in parliament that stymied Brexit.

It is almost as if they only support parliamentary decisions and actions when it goes in their favour.

Surely they would not be that disingenuous?

But isn't it disingenuous to complain about Parliament legislating to hand over some sovereignty to the EU (but retain its power to veto any EU trade deal) then support Parliament when it votes to have no say in any deal the independent UK makes (even if turns out to be a bad deal)?

What if it turns out to be a good deal and we find ourselves in a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border?

 

[mcfc1632]

Oooh traitors now, is it!

Is that the committee, us - or both?

Fuck - you have to feel for the Remainers - so many examples of their invented 'facts' have been proven to be bollocks over the years - they have put so much faith in this report.

Butt-hurt does not begin to cover it - why can they just not show some character and simply say that they were/are wrong?

 

[Metal Biker]

Is that the committee, us - or both?

Fuck - you have to feel for the Remainers - so many examples of their invented 'facts' have been proven to be bollocks over the years - they have put so much faith in this report.

Butt-hurt does not begin to cover it - why can they just not show some character and simply say that they were/are wrong?

Just further proves there is no debate to be had when there are some who hold others in such contempt.

And to think he was one of the ones complaining about the use of language like "traitors" being used towards those who voted remain, years ago!

Such a hypocrite.

 

[mcfc1632]

Obama......the EU........Soros.

Save your crocodile tears.

Remainers would rather ignore the clearly true examples (inconvenient truths again) - and prefer to keep banging on about their fanciful hopes...

Perhaps we should start a list of things that there was not evidence found of Russian interference...

1/ No evidence of interference in the 2016 referendum

2/ No evidence of interference in the setting up and management of VAR

3/ etc.

 

[Saddleworth2]

But surely you are not seeing the future of the UK to be limited to the term of the current government.....??

Leaving the EU and the freedom it provides to UK governments is a matter of decades to come - and many governments

You are one of those beyond such narrow (and convenient) thinking - so disappointing to see that response.

Let's assume that the UK electorate agree that this government is incompetent and throws them - then Starmer will be able to show more competence

And you are one that consistently ignores the here and now in preference to some future state that will be akin to a land of milk and honey. So, so disappointing but strangely familiar ;-). Some of us don't have decades to wait.

 

[meltonblue]

I'm afraid it isn't, despite some on here trying to make it so.

Interference is interference yet many on here are happy to turn a blind eye so long as it suits.

I've said many times we should ban all political ads on social media in the midst of the CA furore but they dont want that.

They just want ads from the opposition banned.

Alleged (no proof given as of yet) Russian leave ads = bad

Soros remain ads = good.

Its difficult to have the conversation with anyone who feels this way.

You honestly think covert vs overt should be treated in the same way? I’m fine with the opinion neither should happen but to treat them similarly is mad to me.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Good morning Ivan ;-)

Ivan?
Thats terrible.

 

[blueinsa]

You honestly think covert vs overt should be treated in the same way? I’m fine with the opinion neither should happen but to treat them similarly is mad to me.

Explain the covert and what has transpired?

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Oooh traitors now, is it!

Makes a change from racists I suppose.
When the next eagerly awaited doom scenario fails to materialise, it'll move
on to murderers.

 

[mcfc1632]

And you are one that consistently ignores the here and now in preference to some future state that will be akin to a land of milk and honey. So, so disappointing but strangely familiar ;-). Some of us don't have decades to wait.

But.......................

It is just a simple fact that some issues are about the here and now and others are about the long term

Brexit is mostly about the future - and that is why it is compelling that we should Leave.

Some Remainers on here cannot consider anything other than the immediate / short-term impact to trading arrangements - that is simply their comfort zone and a mixture of laziness or lack of analysis

It is even lazier / lack of analysis to think that decisions on EU membership should be considered simply in the context of the current parliamentary term - and you know that. The implementation of Brexit will still be ongoing when this term ends - and the benefits / issues will largely manifest in the decades to come - you know that also.

Also - you will not have seen posts from me about a future 'land of milk and honey' - I have said the opposite.

But the EU's good days are behind them - which is why (most) Remainers look backwards I think;-)

The major benefits of Leaving the EU will derive from 'avoidance/limiting of consequences' in the future.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Well this aged well. There is two lines on the Indy ref and refusal to see or investigate anything about Brexit. Frankly anyone thinking that Russia skipped the 2016 referendum but interfered elsewhere is a fucking idiot. Have come to the conclusion we deserve everything coming our way with Brexit. We are not a serious country.

Not sure serious or not serious is correct. Its incompetence or corruption or both.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

But.......................

It is just a simple fact that some issues are about the here and now and others are about the long term

Brexit is mostly about the future - and that is why it is compelling that we should Leave.

Some Remainers on here cannot consider anything other than the immediate / short-term impact to trading arrangements - that is simply their comfort zone and a mixture of laziness or lack of analysis

It is even lazier / lack of analysis to think that decisions on EU membership should be considered simply in the context of the current parliamentary term - and you know that. The implementation of Brexit will still be ongoing when this term ends - and the benefits / issues will largely manifest in the decades to come - you know that also.

Also - you will not have seen posts from me about a future 'land of milk and honey' - I have said the opposite.

But the EU's good days are behind them - which is why (most) Remainers look backwards I think;-)

The major benefits of Leaving the EU will derive from 'avoidance/limiting of consequences' in the future.

The brexit future argument is bollocks. There is no more reason that brexit would be good in future than there is reason that it is a good move now. The only rationale behind this argument is we know that brexit is going to turn to the absolute dog shit in the near term and therefore the long term is all brexiteers will have left.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

The brexit future argument is bollocks. There is no more reason that brexit would be good in future than there is reason that it is a good move now. The only rationale behind this argument is we know that brexit is going to turn to the absolute dog shit in the near term and therefore the long term is all brexiteers will have left.

This is simply yet another opinion, not a fact. Blithely saying 'We know Brexit is
going to be absolute dog shit' does not reinforce that, I could say it's going to
be absolutely fucking marvellous, it's just as valid.

 

[BobKowalski]

This is simply yet another opinion, not a fact. Blithely saying 'We know Brexit is
going to be absolute dog shit' does not reinforce that, I could say it's going to
be absolutely fucking marvellous, it's just as valid.

Actually it’s not opinion. It’s based on the changes that will be forthcoming even with a deal. These changes have been published. All that is required is a capacity to read. Also available in Russian if you prefer.