COVID-19 — Coronavirus

[Ban-jani]

Because our public services are not sufficient to deal with a lockdown, patients removed from hospitals and treatments put off so the main hospitals could deal with covid.

All along the nightingale hospitals with non specialist medical staff sat empty, a health secretary with a brain would have utilized them for non covid care once it was clear they were not needed.

Lockdown didn't kill them a failiure of common sense and governance did.

Yes it did.

People didn’t go in for checks out of fear, that contributed massively.

 

[Ban-jani]

Spot on. The anti-lockdown people all operate around the presumption that behaviours would have been different. They wouldn't.

Locking people up has without doubt contributed to deaths, I really cannot fathom why some won’t admit it.

16,000 for every 25,000 that died of Covid is a huge number that cannot be magicked away.

 

[Ban-jani]

But even if there was no lockdown, while the virus was still around those 6,000 people who were too "scared" to go to hospitals/surgeries would still stay away and die while even more would die of the virus.

It’s 16,000 for every 25,000 that died of Covid.

It’s not about being scared, although putting off medical assistance did definitely contribute, I don’t like the tone of your post though, these are people that have died don’t forget.

It’s regular checks being missed that would have spotted urgent issues. When you’re told you cannot leave your house for risk of the virus, you’re not going to go in for routine checks.

 

[True_Blue69]

But even if there was no lockdown, while the virus was still around those 6,000 people who were too "scared" to go to hospitals/surgeries would still stay away and die while even more would die of the virus.

Only because we have been repeatedly told how deadly this is. There have been comparable seasonal viruses that have killed a similar amount that would barely be mentioned. We've been convinced that a killer virus is going to wipe us all out to the point grandkids cant hug their grandparents. Of course that is going to make people hide away in their houses. Even when this has gone people will be mentally scarred to the point they will never be the same again.

 

[urban genie]

Yes it did.

People didn’t go in for checks out of fear, that contributed massively.

So you set aside clinics or field hospitals that don't have covid patients sent to, like the empty nightingales, then arrange people to be picked up and dropped off from home for minimal contact.

It ain't hard


Italy struggled in the same way at first but got their shit together eventually and we were weeks behind but learnt bothing or if we did ignore it.


Many deaths could have been avoided from both covid sufferers and other duing lockdown.

But lock down was right and if we have another need for one then I will support it.

 

[Ban-jani]

So you set aside clinics or field hispitals that don't have covid patients sent to, like tge empty nightingales, then arrange people to be picked up and dripped off from hime for minimal contact.

It ain't hard

It’s hard to predict when something is going to be empty or not, we couldn’t have done that in the height of lockdown when 900+ souls were dying each day.

I think we can now but practices have gone back to normal.

I think you’re looking at it from a black and white perspective, when in the chaos, it’s not that easy.

 

[urban genie]

It’s hard to predict when something is going to be empty or not, we couldn’t have done that in the height of lockdown when 900+ souls were dying each day.

I think we can now but practices have gone back to normal.

I think you’re looking at it from a black and white perspective, when in the chaos, it’s not that easy.

Tell that to the nations that coped better that are apparently less developed than us.

 

[Ban-jani]

Tell that to the nations that coped better that are apparently less developed than us.

Do you want to name one specifically?

 

[urban genie]

Do you want to name one specifically?

Senegal.


In fact up to now the majority of African nations have handled the pandemic better than the 1st world nations, add that to state in India like Kelari and SEA nations that have had lower rates and managed to recover quicker, I would say many can be named

 

[Ban-jani]

Senegal.


In fact up to now the majority of African nations have handled the pandemic better than the 1st world nations, add that to state in India like Kelari and SEA nations that have had lower rates and managed to recover quicker, I would say many can be named

So completely different population centres, cultures and numbers who travel to these destinations... comparing Senegal to the UK is crackers.. did they even have a lockdown?

India itself is in a pretty bad spot, you could argue certain ares in the UK have done well but overall they haven’t.

I don’t want to divert away from what my point is here - that the lockdown itself has contributed to a significant number of deaths and that we need to learn from it.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

So completely different population centres, cultures and numbers who travel to these destinations... comparing Senegal to the UK is crackers.. did they even have a lockdown?

India itself is in a pretty bad spot, you could argue certain ares in the UK have done well but overall they haven’t.

I don’t want to divert away from what my point is here - that the lockdown itself has contributed to a significant number of deaths and that we need to learn from it.

It may well have done Ban Jani but a lot of the people who dies in care homes were too ill to transfer to hospitals. If anything the late lockdown cost thousands of lives in care homes but not everyone in Sage will admit it because they failed care homes in a terrible way and so did some of the bigger providers

 

[urban genie]

So completely different population centres, cultures and numbers who travel to these destinations... comparing Senegal to the UK is crackers.. did they even have a lockdown?

India itself is in a pretty bad spot, you could argue certain ares in the UK have done well but overall they haven’t.

I don’t want to divert away from what my point is here - that the lockdown itself has contributed to a significant number of deaths and that we need to learn from it.

You asked to name a country that coped better, I did.

If you want to compare it with somewhere that has a population density bigger than ours per sq meter then Bangladesh had less cases and a significanlty lower death rate than us.

I am also trying to keep it on the main point, but as an apparent y developed nation 16000 deaths from lack of bormal medical care and ibfomatiin that made peiple both cinfused amd fearfull is a failiure of leadership not lockdown.

Oh and both Senegal and Bangladesh had lockdowns

 

[dennishasdoneit]

Only because we have been repeatedly told how deadly this is. There have been comparable seasonal viruses that have killed a similar amount that would barely be mentioned. We've been convinced that a killer virus is going to wipe us all out to the point grandkids cant hug their grandparents. Of course that is going to make people hide away in their houses. Even when this has gone people will be mentally scarred to the point they will never be the same again.

Very well said True Blue.
Put it out there.
The Truth.

 

[ayrshire_blue]

Senegal.


In fact up to now the majority of African nations have handled the pandemic better than the 1st world nations, add that to state in India like Kelari and SEA nations that have had lower rates and managed to recover quicker, I would say many can be named

The majority of African countries have much lower rates of affected comorbidities such as diabetes and obesity. Most African countries also have a much younger population compared to Europe, the US and South America. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your opinion btw, just pointing out a couple of potential reasons for why Africa, which people may expect to suffer the worst due to poor health care and access in many regions, famine, amongst other things are actually coping fairly well numbers wise in comparison to Europe and elsewhere.

 

[Ban-jani]

It may well have done Ban Jani but a lot of the people who dies in care homes were too ill to transfer to hospitals. If anything the late lockdown cost thousands of lives in care homes but not everyone in Sage will admit it because they failed care homes in a terrible way and so did some of the bigger providers

I don’t disagree with that mate

 

[Ban-jani]

You asked to name a country that coped better, I did.

If you want to compare it with somewhere that has a population density bigger than ours per sq meter then Bangladesh had less cases and a significanlty lower death rate than us.

I am also trying to keep it on the main point, but as an apparent y developed nation 16000 deaths from lack of bormal medical care and ibfomatiin that made peiple both cinfused amd fearfull is a failiure of leadership not lockdown.

Oh and both Senegal and Bangladesh had lockdowns

And you chose places in entirely different continents with a completely different demographic and far less travel as a tourist destination to us.

Comparing ourselves to them isn’t helpful.

It’s also not helpful as they may have not published their figures relating to indirect deaths.

For the record I do completely blame the government for their leadership on it, that’s my whole point.

 

[twosips]

Locking people up has without doubt contributed to deaths, I really cannot fathom why some won’t admit it.

16,000 for every 25,000 that died of Covid is a huge number that cannot be magicked away.

It isnt. Its awful. My point is that would have happened anyway.

"Another 10,000 people are thought to have died in care homes after early discharge from hospital and a lack of access to care." - even without lockdown the government would have clearly discharged them back to make space given the no doubt even higher need for beds. Sadly. If by some miracle they hadn't, they'd have probably caught it in hospital anyway given how badly it was spreading. As for the remaining 6k who stayed away. Genuinely awful...but the hospitals would have been even fuller with a greater death toll most likely. I hand on heart believe their behaviour would have been identical anyway sadly.

So we're back at square one.

 

[urban genie]

And you chose places in entirely different continents with a completely different demographic and far less travel as a tourist destination to us.

Comparing ourselves to them isn’t helpful.

It’s also not helpful as they may have not published their figures relating to indirect deaths.

For the record I do completely blame the government for their leadership on it, that’s my whole point.

Bit it answered the reply you gave to my post where I said apparent developing nations have coped better and you asked me to name them.

I did, you made it an acceptable comparisson by asking.

 

[Ban-jani]

Bit it answered the reply you gave to my post where I said apparent developing nations have coped better and you asked me to name them.

I did, you made it an acceptable comparisson by asking.

fair enough - I’m about to tee off on a golf trip pal so let’s leave it there I reckon.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

fair enough - I’m about to tee off on a golf trip pal so let’s leave it there I reckon.

Let’s hope there’s a hole in one