The Scottish Politics thread

[Metal Biker]

The way I feel just now I would pay good money to get away from the fuckwits running the U.K. that’s not the most positive reason but it’s true. I see no sign that this shitshow will end anytime soon.

the Scottish government need to present their plans, warts and all, to the Scottish people. If we then choose independence it is with open eyes regarding the long and tricky road taken. Better we make our own mistakes than have those of others foisted on us.

And then directly hold those responsible to account.
Same argument I have, but on another topic. ;)

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

The way I feel just now I would pay good money to get away from the fuckwits running the U.K. that’s not the most positive reason but it’s true. I see no sign that this shitshow will end anytime soon.

the Scottish government need to present their plans, warts and all, to the Scottish people. If we then choose independence it is with open eyes regarding the long and tricky road taken. Better we make our own mistakes than have those of others foisted on us.

How do you feel about having 20% more money than the English regions foisted on you? Considering you are still part of the UK. Do you think that is fair? Honest question.

 

[Saddleworth2]

It will take anywhere between 40 and 80yrs of oil revenues just to pay for the decomissioning of the oil fields. I expect sturgeon would like the UK to pick up that bill?

I have no idea mate what she thinks. I havent a clue if the oil fImelda even need to be decommissioned any time soon or if indeed a government will require to pay for that rather than the oil companies.

The assets and liabilities of the U.K. need to be apportioned fairly in the circumstances of Scottish independence. That is a Principle that is accepted (at least on the Scottish side).

 

[Saddleworth2]

How do you feel about having 20% more money than the English regions foisted on you? Considering you are still part of the UK. Do you think that is fair? Honest question.

So you didnt respond to my detailed questions about the Barnett formula. So I am left with the assumption that you aren’t that close to how it works and why scotland gets more per head than most other regions.
Notwithstanding that, I will give you an honest answer and that is that I don’t know. There are reasons why Scotland gets more and I have outlined them in my prior post. Wether those reasons justify the Gap between the average English region and Scotland I don’t know and I will wager neither do you or any other poster, as to truly understand them you would need to understand the costs of the different public service model Scotland has, the detail of the Scottish water costs, understand financially why it’s more expensive to deliver public services in less populated areas.
Conceptually of course it does but I can’t tell you how much more.

all I can say is that U.K. government after U.K. government have thought it fair enough to continue and not change. Can you tell me if it’s fair that the NW have the single biggest Financial deficit of any region in the U.K.?

should NI and Wales get more than any other English region per head, should London have greater spend per head than Manchester?

 

[Coatigan]

Interesting to see how sturgeon and the snp would be doing if they had the same money per person as the English regions have to run their government north of the border and were not subsidised by the rest of the UK to the tune of £1.20 to every pound. I doubt she would be flying as high in the polls as she is. Conveniently she doesn't mention that litlle fact very often. Lol

Round and round we go.

Do you have that one copied on standby?

Been over it. Wrong, and tedious.

(my response in itself is neither a defense of the snp nor an argument for independence, just challenging the same old rhetoric)

 

[Coatigan]

Define “a lot”.

Rural areas of Scotland are predominantly inhabited by the English, folk that have worked and made money in cities with higher income, and moved to the countryside. Most that i have seen seem to love it, and be loved. They also absolutely make the tourism industry tick, run the pubs, b&bs, shops etc etc.

So rural aread voting largely snp (urban less of a surprise) does mean a lot od English vote snp, it can't mean anything else.

 

[blueparrot]

Rural areas of Scotland are predominantly inhabited by the English, folk that have worked and made money in cities with higher income, and moved to the countryside. Most that i have seen seem to love it, and be loved. They also absolutely make the tourism industry tick, run the pubs, b&bs, shops etc etc.

So rural aread voting largely snp (urban less of a surprise) does mean a lot od English vote snp, it can't mean anything else.

I know quite a few English people around here, myself included that have voted SNP in the past, I know even more including the rest of my family, intending to vote SNP next year. Will they all vote for indendence, no, but more are thinking about it.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

So you didnt respond to my detailed questions about the Barnett formula. So I am left with the assumption that you aren’t that close to how it works and why scotland gets more per head than most other regions.
Notwithstanding that, I will give you an honest answer and that is that I don’t know. There are reasons why Scotland gets more and I have outlined them in my prior post. Wether those reasons justify the Gap between the average English region and Scotland I don’t know and I will wager neither do you or any other poster, as to truly understand them you would need to understand the costs of the different public service model Scotland has, the detail of the Scottish water costs, understand financially why it’s more expensive to deliver public services in less populated areas.
Conceptually of course it does but I can’t tell you how much more.

all I can say is that U.K. government after U.K. government have thought it fair enough to continue and not change. Can you tell me if it’s fair that the NW have the single biggest Financial deficit of any region in the U.K.?

should NI and Wales get more than any other English region per head, should London have greater spend per head than Manchester?

I did read it and did respond. I know why it was brought in. But it is antiquated, clearly unfair and now used as a political election tool buy any UK governing party to gain favour north of the border. They are also running scared of getting rid of it for the same reason. It need abolishing immediately and populace expenditure for all in the UK based on a needs basis. Wales and NI included. Capital infrasture expenditure aside.

It's odd but not surprising that whenever the Barnet formula and the resulting extra money is mentioned many Scots hide behind the rather selfish its our money argument like mpole or decline to state it is unfair like yourself. Many strong socialist values seem to evaporate coincidentally at the same time. Perhaps you would have a stronger case for independence and a real grievance and not a perceived one if you received 20% less than the English regions?

Wales and NI don't appear to have such a perceived grievance as the Scots run by the SNP.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Round and round we go.

Do you have that one copied on standby?

Been over it. Wrong, and tedious.

(my response in itself is neither a defense of the snp nor an argument for independence, just challenging the same old rhetoric)

Oh dear another Scot in denial.

 

[Saddleworth2]

I did read it and did respond. I know why it was brought in. But it is antiquated, clearly unfair and now used as a political election tool buy any UK governing party to gain favour north of the border. They are also running scared of getting rid of it for the same reason. It need abolishing immediately and populace expenditure for all in the UK based on a needs basis. Wales and NI included. Capital infrasture expenditure aside.

It's odd but not surprising that whenever the Barnet formula and the resulting extra money is mentioned many Scots hide behind the rather selfish its our money argument like mpole or decline to state it is unfair like yourself. Many strong socialist values seem to evaporate coincidentally at the same time. Perhaps you would have a stronger case for independence and a real grievance and not a perceived one if you received 20% less than the English regions?

Wales and NI don't appear to have such a perceived grievance as the Scots run by the SNP.

It is you that seems to have a grievance mate
Not a word of detail in your response. 'Its clearly unfair'.

Well if thats the best you can do lets leave it at that.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

A couple of points. Firstly Scotland is part of the UK and not an independent state. Remember they voted to remain part of the UK. So its not Scotland oil anymore than its the lake districts water that supplies Manchester or Londons money as most of the UKs wealth is generated in London. As a socialist I'm surprised you don't you think that wealth should be divided on a needs basis per populace and not based on some arbitarilly geographically and politically expedient fashion. And secondly oil and gas hasn't been profitable for several years. It has to be circa 50dollars a barrel to actually generate any tax. So nullifies the second part of your response. Its currently heavily subsidised by the UK exchequer not Sturgeons government.

The point i was making was that until recently We haven't been subsidising Scotland ...... they've been subsidising us


From the Wiki page....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCrone_report

UK oil production peaked in 1999 and had declined 67% by 2012,[5] but petroleum still contributed £35bn to the UK balance of payments in 2011. [6] The UK government took an estimated £6,530m in direct petroleum taxes in 2012-13[7] plus £6bn in income tax, national insurance and corporation tax from supply companies in 2011-12.[6] As of 2012, around 45% of UK oil & gas employees were located in Scotland.[6] The North Sea oil and gas industry as a whole contributed £35 billion to the UK Treasury in 2014. [8]


But as usual Tories wont accept that...

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

It is you that seems to have a grievance mate
Not a word of detail in your response. 'Its clearly unfair'.

Well if thats the best you can do lets leave it at that.

You are correct I do have a grievance, but not with the Scots and Sturgeon, but with sucessessive UK government's over public spending in the UK. The imbalance is clearly down to their inept political leadership. I don't blame sturgeon or the Scots for accepting more money and no UK region would turn down money.

I enjoy our debates but as you appear to have run off with a petty insult when some simple facts are pointed out, I will leave you with this thought. As so many of you north of the border, feel your so hard done buy when clearly you are not. Perhaps just once you would do well to recognise that the vast majority of the UK get dealt a far worse hand than your goodselves.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

The point i was making was that until recently We haven't been subsidising Scotland ...... they've been subsidising us


From the Wiki page....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCrone_report

UK oil production peaked in 1999 and had declined 67% by 2012,[5] but petroleum still contributed £35bn to the UK balance of payments in 2011. [6] The UK government took an estimated £6,530m in direct petroleum taxes in 2012-13[7] plus £6bn in income tax, national insurance and corporation tax from supply companies in 2011-12.[6] As of 2012, around 45% of UK oil & gas employees were located in Scotland.[6] The North Sea oil and gas industry as a whole contributed £35 billion to the UK Treasury in 2014. [8]


But as usual Tories wont accept that...

I'm not a Tory thank you. I did however think you were a bit of a socialist interested in fairness. Clearly I was mistaken.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Oil is not sustainable, especially in a Climate Change global incentive. Do you really want to be a nation that profits from poison?

More than petrol and Diesel is manufactured from oil.

I'm not a Tory thank you. I did however think you were a bit of a socialist interested in fairness. Clearly I was mistaken.

Interested in fairness ? If you review your last posts you stated

Scotland will have to pick up their share of the UKs debts whilst at the same time time you wanted to saddle Scotland with the full cost of decommissioning the platforms .

Fair?

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

More than petrol and Diesel is manufactured from oil.




Interested in fairness ? If you review your last posts you stated

Scotland will have to pick up their share of the UKs debts whilst at the same time time you wanted to saddle Scotland with the full cost of decommissioning the platforms .

Fair?

Is that as serious question lol.
Yes of course if they are found to be within the newly independent waters of Scotland.

They would have the benefit and liabilities of all their resources, not just the benefit and expect another country to pick up the liability.

I'm sorry but that is quite a laughable and staggering suggestion.

 

[Magicpole]

whilst Nicola‘s response was robust and quite amusing, it doesn’t alter the fact that Swinney is doing a shit job. Education has been a running sore on the record of her government. If he doesn’t resign she should sack him. Honestly mate, they need to be better than this week.

Yes that was the cry from.every Tory and the BBC. Today we see England even worse and hardly a fucking peep. The attack by the Tories and BBc has blown up in their Tory fucking bastard faces. Stay tuned for our tartan Tory wankers getting mauled for double standards and blatant anti SNP propoganda. You couldnt make up how blatant they are. We live in a flicked up country where if it was true England subsidized us were true, we would have been cut loose. They know it's a fuck8 g lie and every single action they take proves that. Fuck the Tories and fuck the BBC.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Yes that was the cry from.every Tory and the BBC. Today we see England even worse and hardly a fucking peep. The attack by the Tories and BBc has blown up in their Tory fucking bastard faces. Stay tuned for our tartan Tory wankers getting mauled for double standards and blatant anti SNP propoganda. You couldnt make up how blatant they are. We live in a flicked up country where if it was true England subsidized us were true, we would have been cut loose. They know it's a fuck8 g lie and every single action they take proves that. Fuck the Tories and fuck the BBC.

Nice eloquent response from your good self as always Magic lol.

If Scotland became independent perhaps you could apply for the post of foreign office minister?

You would certainly shake a few suits up.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Yes that was the cry from.every Tory and the BBC. Today we see England even worse and hardly a fucking peep. The attack by the Tories and BBc has blown up in their Tory fucking bastard faces. Stay tuned for our tartan Tory wankers getting mauled for double standards and blatant anti SNP propoganda. You couldnt make up how blatant they are. We live in a flicked up country where if it was true England subsidized us were true, we would have been cut loose. They know it's a fuck8 g lie and every single action they take proves that. Fuck the Tories and fuck the BBC.

whilst I might agree with your sentiments, forget the BBC, Tories etc, do you think JS is doing a good or bad job?

 

[Saddleworth2]

You are correct I do have a grievance, but not with the Scots and Sturgeon, but with sucessessive UK government's over public spending in the UK. The imbalance is clearly down to their inept political leadership. I don't blame sturgeon or the Scots for accepting more money and no UK region would turn down money.

I enjoy our debates but as you appear to have run off with a petty insult when some simple facts are pointed out, I will leave you with this thought. As so many of you north of the border, feel your so hard done buy when clearly you are not. Perhaps just once you would do well to recognise that the vast majority of the UK get dealt a far worse hand than your goodselves.

Firstly, I haven't said I feel hard done by around finance, never have.
Secondly, you refuse to engage in any debate about why Scotland gets more. It's very difficult to debate with someone who simply says 'it isnt' fair and can't or wont engage in any discussion about why the expenditure provisions in every single region of the UK are different. So I'm still here and happy to debate as long as you do.
And for what it is worth, I think that the main problem with the UK is its run out of London. Most English regions get a shitty deal and I have every sympathy for them. A decentralised government might still save the UK as an entity.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Yes that was the cry from.every Tory and the BBC. Today we see England even worse and hardly a fucking peep. The attack by the Tories and BBc has blown up in their Tory fucking bastard faces. Stay tuned for our tartan Tory wankers getting mauled for double standards and blatant anti SNP propoganda. You couldnt make up how blatant they are. We live in a flicked up country where if it was true England subsidized us were true, we would have been cut loose. They know it's a fuck8 g lie and every single action they take proves that. Fuck the Tories and fuck the BBC.

On another note. I have noticed the last wee while a more sustained attack on Sturgeon from the likes of the times and the Express on almost a daily basis. I expect that to ramp up significantly.