Another new Brexit thread

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mcfc1632 said:
I expect most hard-left minded people of strong principles - such as yourself - will still vote Labour in 2024 no matter what they say now. You may not but most will as seeing the Tories get 5 more years will be (by far) the worse of 2 evils for them

I expect Starmer to get a Blair like victory - but he will not have in reality moved the party that far to the centre

I just hope Brexit is done and dusted and there is not appetitive to attempt to unpick it.
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I don't want to vote for least worst, I want to vote for first best. Voting for least worst could give a mandate to something I don't believe in and why on earth would I do that. Democracy is far too important to waste a vote on a least worst basis. Its anti democratic, because I would be casting a vote in the negative and democracy should be about casting a vote in the positive. By being anti, I could be depriving people of their democratic right to be for something.
 
Rascal said:
All we can hope for is the best, the problem is the Tories are fucking it up big time. When you have liars like Gove saying we are reclaiming sovereignty at last despite a Govt white paper saying we were always a sovereign nation its no surprise things are going to pot. There has been so many lies, so much disinformation and so much propaganda from both sides during the whole debate it doesn't surprise me that people are confused, I was and I consider myself fairly well educated and across most of the issues. The problem for the Tories is some of there nutjobs have staked their whole political careers on Brexit, they cant back down as they fear losing face. The self serving attitude of these people is backed though by plenty of people who have bought the lies, the disinformation and the propaganda.

Labour are fucked as I see it. Keith is not a Labour leader and the party should split. the broad church is too broad and cant encompass all the views, reconciling economic authoritarian Socialists like myself with pro-EU social liberals is after the Brexit debate nigh on impossible and the treatment of Corbyn by those twats at HQ have left a sour bitter feeling in those on the left of the party. I cant see myself voting Labour for the foreseeable future apart from in local elections where we have a good hard working Labour councillor, the party has left me under Keith and many of the left feel the same. Its sad, but it is what it is, I will never vote Tory, I will never vote Lib Dem, so probably wont vote at all at the next GE for the first time ever, unless a CPGB candidate stands of course :)
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Without derailing the thread too much, we need Labour to win the next election regardless of your personal feelings towards Starmer?

I was listening to the Majority Report, the host is no fan of Biden but is certainly anti-Trump. His position(and I think I agree) is that it is best to vote for the person who is going to build 3 concentration camps than 10 - not a nice way of putting it but you get the idea

You cannot put pressure on the Tories to go left but you can pressure Labour but there is no point if they are not actually in a position of power

A new Party would have no chance so that’s not really an option. Maybe Corbyn has the right message but the wrong messenger or maybe of it wasn’t for Brexit it would have been different. Who knows? But what I do know is that unless Labour act as one regardless of the ideological differences then we are likely to be having these type of conversations in 5 and 10 years time whilst the Tories under the cover of Brexit(you know you would lose your jobs: Andrea Leadsom) will continue to do harm to those who can least afford it
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
Most large companies already pay much less than that under the Tories.
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mate its been happening for decades, not just under the tories. The argument is paying 12.5% of something is better than 19% of nothing. A few years 98 ftse 100 companies paid little or no corp tax. Why do you think so many have HQs in offshore tax havens like the ROI and Luxembourg.
 
Rascal said:
I don't want to vote for least worst, I want to vote for first best. Voting for least worst could give a mandate to something I don't believe in and why on earth would I do that. Democracy is far too important to waste a vote on a least worst basis. Its anti democratic, because I would be casting a vote in the negative and democracy should be about casting a vote in the positive. By being anti, I could be depriving people of their democratic right to be for something.
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TBF - I did say........

"I expect most hard-left minded people of strong principles - such as yourself - will still vote Labour in 2024 no matter what they say now. You may not but most will......."
 
Also an interesting post on the Internal Market Bill and what it does or doesn’t do, and providing a ‘safety net for NI‘ seems to be the least of what it does.

Increasing tensions between London and the other nations of the UK as well as making the situation in NI more precarious, are high on the ’to do’ list.

blogs.lse.ac.uk

How does the UK Internal Market Bill relate to Northern Ireland? - LSE BREXIT

As the UK Internal Market Bill has its Second Reading in the House of Lords, how does it relate to Northern Ireland? Katy Hayward provides the answers, in 5 key points. The UK Internal Market Bill has already generated a lot of controversy, not least for its clauses dealing with the...
blogs.lse.ac.uk blogs.lse.ac.uk
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
UK should up the ante and anounce a coproration tax reduction over next few years to 12.5%, hold your nerve Frost.
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Still probably not enough to compete with the taxation mechanism created by junker in Luxembourg for Amazon. Wed probably need to further 'incentivise' as Ireland did for Apple.
 
mcfc1632 said:
On Monday, Barnier spoke with his UK counterpart David Frost. "I confirmed that the EU remains available to intensify talks in London this week, on all subjects, and based on legal texts. We now wait for the UK's reaction," he tweeted.

Now Len - I see some Remainers are desperately seeking to present this development to be other than what it clearly is - but the reality is that this is the EU agreeing to do what the UK said was required

Just to recap - it was only last Thursday that the EU council dropped the commitment to intensify negotiations - seeking to apply pressure on the UK and also stated that: "......... all future moves in this negotiation had to be made by the UK."

Well we made our move and told the EU not to bother because "There's no point in negotiations proceeding as long as the EU sticks with this position.

"Such talks would be meaningless and would take us no nearer to finding a workable solution."

The UK also stated clearly that:

"If the EU change their position then we will be willing to talk to them.

"But they must be ready to discuss the detailed legal text of a treaty in all areas."

So yep - Remainers can try and dress it up all they like but this is the EU dropping their macho stance of just last Thursday and meeting the demands of the UK. It is also more evidence, not that any more is needed, that the opinion:

"We will not see movement from the EU unless and until they are faced with the prospect of a viable walk-away option – and the political will to use it”

Was spot on - and that was only Monday.
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I'd imagine both sides will concede ground as that is how negotiations work. No matter the result there will always be a few desperate to paint it as an EU victory. They'd still do this even if we got it all our own way and the EU promised steak and blowjobs to us every night.
 
west didsblue said:
Bet the EU shits themselves when our government makes even less money available to itself.

Or should I say piss themselves laughing.
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I'm not sure that's how it works. The idea is to charge less so as to provide a more attractive taxation regime and attract more business I think.
 
The Govt isn’t lowering corporation tax.. We are in the midst of a pandemic that is costing the country billions, depressing economic activity and the virus isn’t going away anytime soon.
 
BobKowalski said:
The Govt isn’t lowering corporation tax.. We are in the midst of a pandemic that is costing the country billions, depressing economic activity and the virus isn’t going away anytime soon.
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if it raises more tax why not. why do you think some countries decide to become tax havens.? To generate less tax??? lol
 
BobKowalski said:
The Govt isn’t lowering corporation tax.. We are in the midst of a pandemic that is costing the country billions, depressing economic activity and the virus isn’t going away anytime soon.
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I's a conservative govt Bob. Fully expect them to put the tax rise onto everyday items - VAT and income, while lowering corporate taxation so we all get to benefit from 'trickle down' economics.
 
BobKowalski said:
The Govt isn’t lowering corporation tax.. We are in the midst of a pandemic that is costing the country billions, depressing economic activity and the virus isn’t going away anytime soon.
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Reducing Corp tax by 7% would cost 3 or 4 billion in headline terms, or in present circumstances, a rounding error.
 
jaseirai said:
Reducing Corp tax by 7% would cost 3 or 4 billion in headline terms, or in present circumstances, a rounding error.
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That would be the Govt quibbling over tens of millions on financial support for Gr Manchester or refusing to spend a few millions on feeding kids over Christmas?

Yet a few billion is a ‘rounding error’? Good to know. Can you let the Govt know this? Thanks.

In other news the Govt has ruled out lowering corporation tax until at least 2022, so I suggest we take that into consideration when discussing the issue.
 
BobKowalski said:
The Govt isn’t reducing corporation tax because it decided not to reduce as per previous commitment.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes-to-corporation-tax-rates-from-1-april-2020
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I said i think they should reduce it, not that they were. Surely you agree that we should be getting all companies operating in the UK to pay their fair share of corporation tax via the carrot and stick approach. the internet and european tax havens have made it much much easier for companies to avoid paying their fair share of tax. Fairness is what we are all after surely Bob?
 
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