#8 | Ilkay Gündoğan - 2020/21 Performances

[OB1]

Gundogan is a bang average player who has one good game mixed in with 5-10 ordinary/shit ones, usually when we're downhill skiing against weaker opposition. It's the case now, it was the case last season, it's been the case ever since he joined us.

Those of you trying to hoodwink everyone into thinking he's an excellent player that deserves a starting spot are either in huge denial, or want to see us do badly. One look into any opposition supporter forum tells you that other fans also think he's garbage and wouldn't want him playing on their team. That should say it all - he isn't good enough for this side and never will be, end of.

Another person who thinks he knows better than Pep. Fascinating arrogance.

 

[Dax777]

Our problem isn't gundogan, our problem is David silva imo, we have control without the penetrative balls that David produced, hence struggling to kill teams off

Sorry, this is patently false. Dave was not putting through penetrating balls last year. We are just a poorer with our movement.

 

[Dax777]

Gundogan is a bang average player who has one good game mixed in with 5-10 ordinary/shit ones, usually when we're downhill skiing against weaker opposition. It's the case now, it was the case last season, it's been the case ever since he joined us.

Those of you trying to hoodwink everyone into thinking he's an excellent player that deserves a starting spot are either in huge denial, or want to see us do badly. One look into any opposition supporter forum tells you that other fans also think he's garbage and wouldn't want him playing on their team. That should say it all - he isn't good enough for this side and never will be, end of.

Oh Snap! The Calvary is here :)

 

[ojeme]

Sorry, this is patently false. Dave was not putting through penetrating balls last year. We are just a poorer with our movement.

I think you are right in saying that our movement is not good enough but then I think we miss Dave's pentrating balls of 2 years ago. We miss those kind of balls that unlock teams this year as we did last year.

I am not sure Gundo has it in him to produce those kind of balls so it is unfair to ask him to do what Silva did for us for most of Silva's time here.

And when I refer to Gundo, I'm talking about the City Gundo not the Dortmund one.

 

[mosssideblue]

Gundogan is a bang average player who has one good game mixed in with 5-10 ordinary/shit ones, usually when we're downhill skiing against weaker opposition. It's the case now, it was the case last season, it's been the case ever since he joined us.

Those of you trying to hoodwink everyone into thinking he's an excellent player that deserves a starting spot are either in huge denial, or want to see us do badly. One look into any opposition supporter forum tells you that other fans also think he's garbage and wouldn't want him playing on their team. That should say it all - he isn't good enough for this side and never will be, end of.

I wouldn't argue with Pep about Gundos quality, so certainly won't be arguing with someone more knowledgeable than him. End of!

 

[OrigamiNinja]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion on a player. Some like Gundogan, some don't and that is ok. What I cannot get my head around, is this insistence across many threads on the site, that if Pep does something, it must be golden.

I love the guy and if he signed on the dotted line to manage us for the next decade I would be delighted. However, I cannot be the only one who has noticed a huge drop in our quality over the past 18 months? This has happened under the stewardship of Pep, he is not infallible. Not all of his decisions and choices are correct.

Gundogan had a great run in the side for the 2nd half of 18/19 playing at 6. For me, he should have been left there, instead the infallible Pep decided to replace him (and Fern) in that position with Rodri. Is anyone really going to suggest that Peps decision to do this has been a rip-roaring success?

 

[ws01]

Another person who think s he knows better than Pep. Fascinating arrogance.

Another person who thinks every Pep does is perfect because he's infallible.

Must explain why he keeps bombing out of the CL before the semi-finals by outsmarting himself, no matter how much he spends, or why we got belted by 18 points last season courtesy of the Dippers, or why we're currently 13th on the table.

 

[ws01]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion on a player. Some like Gundogan, some don't and that is ok. What I cannot get my head around, is this insistence across many threads on the site, that if Pep does something, it must be golden.

I love the guy and if he signed on the dotted line to manage us for the next decade I would be delighted. However, I cannot be the only one who has noticed a huge drop in our quality over the past 18 months? This has happened under the stewardship of Pep, he is not infallible. Not all of his decisions and choices are correct.

Gundogan had a great run in the side for the 2nd half of 18/19 playing at 6. For me, he should have been left there, instead the infallible Pep decided to replace him (and Fern) in that position with Rodri. Is anyone really going to suggest that Peps decision to do this has been a rip-roaring success?

Sadly, it's a pretty clear case of small-time mentality by those certain fans. Thinking Guardiola is the be all and end all - he's not.

Brilliant manager, but he's got his weaknesses, and his overuse of Gundogan is one of them.

 

[OB1]

Another person who thinks every Pep does is perfect because he's infallible.

Must explain why he keeps bombing out of the CL before the semi-finals by outsmarting himself, no matter how much he spends, or why we got belted by 18 points last season courtesy of the Dippers, or why we're currently 13th on the table.

I don't think Pep is perfect or a genius or whatever else you would wish to imagine but I'm damn sure he understands football way better than you, whoever you are.

What I do believe is Gundo is a very able football player - technically of a very high order. You and plenty of others may not like how he plays but if he wasn't playing how Pep wants him to, he would not be picked consistently.

 

[Otamendi's Beard]

I don't agree with everything Pep does - far from it. You only have to read my comments about Garcia to know that.

However, when it comes to Gundogan I have a completely different perspective and trust his judgement.

In my opinion he's a valuable member of the squad due to his intelligence, personality and reciprocal loyalty. He's never going to be KDB or a world beater, but we're talking about a German international who can play our possession-based system to a high level.

Could he do more? Sometimes. But so can the rest of the squad. He's generally consistent and a stable defence will benefit him hugely.

At the end of the day he was fantastic value for money, has played a role in our greatest title wins of all-time and didn't stitch us up by leaving when he could've done. That's the type of player who's earned my respect.

 

[ws01]

I don't think Pep is perfect or a genius or whatever else you would wish to imagine but I'm damn sure he understands football way better than you, whoever you are.

What I do believe is Gundo is a very able football player - technically of a very high order. You and plenty of others may not like how he plays but if he wasn't playing how Pep wants him to, he would not be picked consistently.

That goes for almost any top level manager, managing anywhere, in relations to run of the mill supporters - not just Pep. However, because it's Pep specifically, you feel compelled to blindly support any decision he makes, no matter how irrefutable the evidence put forward in front of you that may suggest this is a weakness of his.

If it were pretty much any other manager, selection of players would come under question. Certainly any manager prior to him was considered fair game to be questioned on this kind of issue.

Which leads to the question - so why not Pep? That's right, because supporters like you do in fact think he's infallible, whether you admit to it or not, and think every decision he makes is the right one. If you didn't, you wouldn't keep using this logical fallacy to support him in the first place.

 

[OB1]

That goes for almost any top level manager, managing anywhere, in relations to run of the mill supporters - not just Pep. However, because it's Pep specifically, you feel compelled to blindly support any decision he makes, no matter how irrefutable the evidence put forward in front of you that may suggest this is a weakness of his.

If it were pretty much any other manager, selection of players would come under question. Certainly any manager prior to him was considered fair game to be questioned on this kind of issue.

Which leads to the question - so why not Pep? That's right, because supporters like you do in fact think he's infallible, whether you admit to it or not, and think every decision he makes is the right one. If you didn't, you wouldn't keep using this logical fallacy to support him in the first place.

You keep getting your assumptions about what I think wrong and your arrogance shines through on that and your assumption that your assessment of the player is superior to mine.

You also seem to miss the point that Gundogan plays the game as his manger wants, which supports the idea that he is a very capable player. Just as he played the game how Klopp wanted him to when they were at Dortmund and just as he does for Low in the German national team.

Whether what Pep asks of his players is always the right thing is a different debate but meeting Pep's demands requires a player to have high technical ability and footballing intelligence.

 

[Sir peace frog]

That goes for almost any top level manager, managing anywhere, in relations to run of the mill supporters - not just Pep. However, because it's Pep specifically, you feel compelled to blindly support any decision he makes, no matter how irrefutable the evidence put forward in front of you that may suggest this is a weakness of his.

If it were pretty much any other manager, selection of players would come under question. Certainly any manager prior to him was considered fair game to be questioned on this kind of issue.

Which leads to the question - so why not Pep? That's right, because supporters like you do in fact think he's infallible, whether you admit to it or not, and think every decision he makes is the right one. If you didn't, you wouldn't keep using this logical fallacy to support him in the first place.

what irrefutable evidence do you have that pep makes bad calls in picking gundogan ?

 

[Txiki Txiki Bang Bang]

At least he has stopped that unnecessary "iniesta" double turn, you know that one when he has the ball and one of our attackers makes a run forward expecting him to release the ball but instead he does the double turn and then passes the ball to the guy next to him.

 

[ws01]

what irrefutable evidence do you have that pep makes bad calls in picking gundogan ?

Watching games that he plays in?

Using your eyes is always a good start

 

[ws01]

You keep getting your assumptions about what I think wrong and your arrogance shines through on that and your assumption that your assessment of the player is superior to mine.

You also seem to miss the point that Gundogan plays the game as his manger wants, which supports the idea that he is a very capable player. Just as he played the game how Klopp wanted him to when they were at Dortmund and just as he does for Low in the German national team.

Whether what Pep asks of his players is always the right thing is a different debate but meeting Pep's demands requires a player to have high technical ability and footballing intelligence.

I haven't. This is what I've called you out on.

The game the manager wants may not be the game that makes us as successful or effective as we can be. We're struggling right now, we've crashed out in the CL four seasons in a row, and we looked a shell of ourselves last season.

The correlational between Gundogan being a starter and us doing poorly/Gundogan being out and us performing better is there, save for one spell at the back end of 2018/19. The causation is debatable. Therefore, the notion that he's good because he gets picked by Pep is not necessarily true and a false assumption.

 

[Sir peace frog]

Watching games that he plays in?

Using your eyes is always a good start

so that's irrefutable evidence, your opinion, so you deem your opinion above some of the best coaches in world football. drop city your cv.

fuck me you think a lot of yourself, clown

 

[OB1]

I haven't. This is what I've called you out on.

The game the manager wants may not be the game that makes us as successful or effective as we can be. We're struggling right now, we've crashed out in the CL four seasons in a row, and we looked a shell of ourselves last season.

The correlational between Gundogan being a starter and us doing poorly/Gundogan being out and us performing better is there, save for one spell at the back end of 2018/19. The causation is debatable. Therefore, the notion that he's good because he gets picked by Pep is not necessarily true and a false assumption.

We haven't just performed well at the end of 18/19 with Gundogan starting; we did it in our last game for starters.

How often he should start now and in what combination of players are certainly things to question but do not change the situation that no one is being hoodwinked or that he is an excellent football player; not perfect but top quality.

 

[ws01]

so that's irrefutable evidence, your opinion, so you deem your opinion above some of the best coaches in world football. drop city your cv.

fuck me you think a lot of yourself, clown

No, rather the opinion of a very high number of our supporters, of which I am one.

Unless you think everyone else's opinion doesn't matter on this, except yours?

Clown.

 

[Sir peace frog]

No, rather the opinion of a very high number of our sheep, of which I am one.

Clown.

edited.
and you think i should rate some of the other fans on here's opinion higher than some of the best coaches in football, have a think what your putting.

have a read of the match threads, and tell me i should listen to the high number of fans opinions on our players, ffs