COVID-19 — Coronavirus

[kaz7]

1. Robust memory T cell responses detected months after COVID-19 infection, even in the absence of detectable circulating antibodies specific for SARS-CoV-2, indicating a previously unappreciated heterogeneity of immunity against COVID-19.
2. Time to exposure was associated with the emergence of stem-like memory SARS-CoV-2-specific CD8 T cells

Robust T cell immunity in convalescent individuals with asymptomatic or mild COVID-19 — Immunology

www.immunology.ox.ac.uk

Persistent immune memory of COVID-19 found in recovered patient T cells | University of Oxford

Oxford University researchers have found that infection with COVID-19 produces a robust T cell response, including inducing T cell ‘memory’ to potentially fight future infections.

www.ox.ac.uk

Thanks, every day is a learning day

There is this though
Main limitation/suggestions:

1. The authors conclude that T cell responses in the absence of humoral responses can prevent or limit re-infection. However, minimal evidence was provided in the study of protection and durability of memory T cell responses.

Comparison of SARS-CoV-2 specific T cells phenotype between acute and convalescent phase included only severe acute phase (with small sample size, n=2). Further analysis of moderate acute and convalescent phase would be helpful to compare phenotype of virus specific T cells within population with similar disease outcomes.

 

[blueparrot]

Thanks, every day is a learning day

There is this though
Main limitation/suggestions:

1. The authors conclude that T cell responses in the absence of humoral responses can prevent or limit re-infection. However, minimal evidence was provided in the study of protection and durability of memory T cell responses.

I agree nothing is certain yet, but evidence from SARS point to it being positive. From memory, the Oxford vaccine is developed with t-cell immunity fore front.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

London is not empty. A few selected street shots in the City does not represent London. London is far more than Westminster and City of London. Go to the likes of Enfield Town, High Barnet and Wood Green (don't go if you have a choice) and you will find things look fairly normal.

The R rate in London has shot-up according to one calculation. Not all of them. I honestly don't now which one to trust. If you think what is happening in the North now is bad, times it by a lot, and you have London in April. Over a month, 6,000 people died in the capital.

I agree with the emptiness bit. Basically, the tubes/trains are quite empty because a lot of people are not travelling into the centre for work. Each area is still active, although it's difficult to know how the numbers compare with the Before Time

 

[kaz7]

I agree nothing is certain yet, but evidence from SARS point to it being positive. From memory, the Oxford vaccine is developed with t-cell immunity fore front.

I have stopped assuming that covid acts the sames as sars or any other coronavirus , i so want immunity to be proven so i can relax a bit

 

[True_Blue69]

Where are you getting 12-18 months from?

Just a realistic guess, it's unknown at the moment isn't it. Might be more, might be less.

 

[AlgarveBlu]

immunity does not last 12-18 months , it is not lasting more than four months

this recent article from the Lancet on immunity covers the topic very well I n the various types of immunity but admittedly it’s heavy going for a layman like me in this field. I suspect the generic term of immunity will probably throw a lot of us and the media out on this topic.

In patients infected with either severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 1 (SARS-CoV-1) or Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus, detection of humoral markers of immunity were measurable for 2–3 years, but these markers were absent when patients were re-tested 5–6 years later.
3

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32137-1/fulltext

 

[True_Blue69]

immunity does not last 12-18 months , it is not lasting more than four months

Of course it is, only 4 people have been reinfected worldwide, there would be a lot more if it only lasted 4 months. They still have no idea in reality but it will be more than 4 months.

 

[mosssideblue]

Just a realistic guess, it's unknown at the moment isn't it. Might be more, might be less.

No probs. Thought you might have seen that documented somewhere

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Obviously there are loads of experts be it economic, football or political on bluemoon.

but I have to say this thread is the single best source of debate and evidence on covid and Covid related matters.

I get more Sensible information from this thread than I do anywhere else in the media.

 

[M18CTID]

Sure - I don't think that is in doubt. But whether it lasts for say 12 months, is another matter. And also it kind of misses the point. If 45m people to become infected just the once, and if the mortality rate is say 0.5% then that could mean 200,000 deaths. And that's clearly far from OK. Not to mention the fact that the mortality rate would probably go up if we couldn't accommodate in ICU, those who needed ventilators.

Yep. I can kind of see an argument that if a vaccine doesn’t materialise for several years for example, then obviously we will have to live alongside the virus and some kind of herd immunity may well be the only way to get on top of it long-term but we can’t afford to just “let it rip” as it will lead to a way higher death rate than we’re seeing now.

Regarding the 0.5% mortality rate, I had a conspiracy theorist mate tell me that the low mortality rate equates to this virus being a hoax as there are 23 other bigger killers in the UK in terms of mortality rates and as such the measures being taken by countries worldwide are a hysterical overreaction. The trouble with the tin-foil hat wearing brigade lobbing stats like that around is that their arguments don’t even make it to first base when you consider just how easy it is to catch Covid-19 compared to all those other killers. Rabies has the highest mortality rate on earth - 99.9% - but hardly any fucker ever gets it, whereas Covid-19 has killed many more people than rabies ever will despite having a much lower mortality rate.

 

[kaz7]

Of course it is, only 4 people have been reinfected worldwide, there would be a lot more if it only lasted 4 months. They still have no idea in reality but it will be more than 4 months.

You are guessing and not reading , again, you could do with reading more

 

[True_Blue69]

You are guessing and not reading , again, you could do with reading more

So your 4 month immunity for all is based on reading? Please share that article.

 

[kaz7]

this recent article from the Lancet on immunity covers the topic very well I n the various types of immunity but admittedly it’s heavy going for a layman like me in this field. I suspect the generic term of immunity will probably throw a lot of us and the media out on this topic.

In patients infected with either severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 1 (SARS-CoV-1) or Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus, detection of humoral markers of immunity were measurable for 2–3 years, but these markers were absent when patients were re-tested 5–6 years later.
3

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32137-1/fulltext

Thanks , we have to be careful with likening it to other coronaviruses , if there is one thing we know for sure it is that it acts quite differently

Immunity was assumed and has still not been proven to the extent that a dr will tell a patient you are immune , they wont ever do that imo

 

[kaz7]

So your 4 month immunity for all is based on reading? Please share that article.

I posted it yesterday or the day before , i dont keep links so you will have to look for it

here it is

Coronavirus: Antibodies fall rapidly after COVID infection, dashing hopes of herd immunity - study

Researchers find that the number of people with antibodies in their study fell by 26% since lockdown measures were relaxed.

news.sky.com

The fall in antibodies suggest people will be regularly re-infected, just as they are with related coronaviruses that cause the common cold.

 

[purplenose]

If that was the case would it not be reported , the last link i read it said there is not a test for t cells so far

Considering the amount who got it back in spring there seems to be surprisingly few getting it again?

Unless I am missing the news somewhere there does not seem to be much in the way of doctors and nurses dropping like flies?

There does not as yet seem to be any real evidence that you can catch it soon after catching it in the first place. There are always going to be exeptions to the rule, i got chicken pox twice in adulthood, the first mild dose when I was in my early 30s then one after that nearly saw me off when i was 40.

What i am sure of there are too many people quick too take any news that can possibly be portrayed as bad news and turn it into the blackest possible scenario and plenty of medias just love to spread some more doom and misery.

 

[M18CTID]

You are guessing and not reading , again, you could do with reading more

I highly doubt that if immunity only lasts 4 months for everyone who gets it that there would only be a handful of confirmed cases of re-infection worldwide when you consider that there are 40-odd million officially confirmed cases so far and probably hundreds of millions more unconfirmed cases.

 

[kaz7]

Considering the amount who got it back in spring there seems to be surprisingly few getting it again?

Unless I am missing the news somewhere there does not seem to be much in the way of doctors and nurses dropping like flies?

There does not as yet seem to be any real evidence that you can catch it soon after catching it in the first place. There are always going to be exeptions to the rule, i got chicken pox twice in adulthood, the first mild dose when I was in my early 30s then one after that nearly saw me off when i was 40.

What i am sure of there are too many people quick too take any news that can possibly be portrayed as bad news and turn it into the blackest possible scenario and plenty of medias just love to spread some more doom and misery.

Hundreds of drs ,nurses , frontline workers died in wave one , they are better protected now

it is about reading studies and not guessing , there is so much we dont know but we can discuss actual findings as much as we have

 

[kaz7]

I highly doubt that if immunity only lasts 4 months for everyone who gets it that there would only be a handful of confirmed cases of re-infection worldwide when you consider that there are 40-odd million officially confirmed cases so far and probably hundreds of millions more unconfirmed cases.

As i said if you get it again with mild or without symptoms you wont get a test , there is so much more to learn about immunity , i prefer to stick to the science and not guessing !

 

[Healdplace]

Today's Red Watch list shows the 10 most infected areas in the country and the NW has basically camped out there as expected.

Recall these are based on the reallocated cases to the actual day so this is in effect the picture at the start of this week not now.

But none of it will surprise you from the up to date ones I post each evening from the day's data. They will nevewr be identical because of the reallocation of cases to exact day but they predict pretty well what each place in th red list is doing.

So here are the top 10 places with the Weekly Pop Number placing them on that list. After it I will indicate for those I record what the day to day numbers have shown to have happened to it in the few days since. As trends up or down are all important in how government decides to act.

Top is Blackburn scored at a Weekly Pop of 803. In the past 4 days Blackburn has had 200, 210, 163 and 184 cases And its Pop score has shot up by 509 points so it will be rising quite sharply still and likely worst in UK. It has the highest Pop score in the UK at 4110.

Oldham is second at Weekly Pop 693 on this list. In the past few days Oldham has continued to rise and was 731 last night.

Wigan is third on the government red watch list with 683 but it has got even worse in recent days and ewas 704 last night. So these top three seem to be likely to stay that way.

Fourth on the Gov list is Rossendale at 665. The last 4 days has seen its Pop score rise by 232 versus 298 in the previous 4 so is starting to suggest a downward path. But likely still in the top 10.

Fifth place is Salford at 610. The city added 800 cases in the past 4 days compared with 673 in the previous 4 so it is going up and has risen to 637 last night.

Rochdale is sixth at 600. There is better news here as its numbers have stabilised in the past few days and is only at 611 last night

Bolton comes in at seven on the gov list with 565 and its numbers are fairly stable too and was at 574 last night.

Knowsley is at eighth having been top recently but its numbers have gone well down since tier 3 on Merseyside. It is 553 in this list but will be below that now as it has fallen every day and likely off the top 10 next time.

Doncaster is at nine with a score of 547. Not been watching here as I cannot watch everywhere. But thats around where Tameside is now.

At 10 is Bury which is scored at 540 on this list. It has had some of the lowest case numbers in GM recently but its Pop score has been rising slowly. It has gone up to 556 since the date of this list.

So as you can see the North West and GM in particular is Covid central right now. With 6 of the 10 boroughs in the top 10 right now.

Tameside at 545 and a rise of 48 over those 4 days since the data in the above list is at imminent risk of making the top 10 but I suspect there are too many places going up around the UK for that to happen.

Of the other three Manchester was stable around 500 but last 2 days has started going up a bit again so might be at risk of sneaking back onto the list which it was high up on a week or two ago. As was Liverpool. Trafford has only risen 14 in 5 days and at 445 well under the level to get in the top 10 so safe. But Stockport having climbed steadily from 301 11 days ago to 463 yesterday is at risk of doing a Wigan and going from best to one of the worst.

But hopefully the tier 3 restrictions will kick in as they did on Merseyside and do the same to reduce and remove from this watch list most or all of the GM boroughs.

 

[kaz7]

More kids breaking the rules , i give up with the youngsters

Coronavirus: Police threat of fines falls on deaf ears as large groups in fancy dress descend on Nottingham

Police said 40 young people are each facing fines of £200 after a party was broken up at student halls of residence in the city.

news.sky.com