Keir Starmer

[Rascal]

Holy shit. Keith Stalin has got his client client journalists promoting him as sexy on social media.

It was only a matter of time. They are really pushing him in the liberal left media.

 

[urban genie]

Some good articles explaining just how difficult it's going to be for Labour to win power in 2024 or 2029 for that matter, recently exemplified by the position 70 or so MPs took on the deportation of foreign criminals:

Labour 'red wall' seats lost to Conservatives in 2019 might be 'lost for good'

Study shows Labour faces continuous decline unless it tackles perception it is London-centric

www.theguardian.com

'I'd still vote Tory': voters in Leigh still unconvinced by Labour one year on

As part of a five-year project following the lives of people in the Greater Manchester constituency that had been Labour for almost 100 years until the election, politicians and residents explain how they feel now

www.theguardian.com

Unless Scotland stops voting SNP, there's no route to power for Labour unless they win back the red wall. There's simply not enough seats in the middle-class or student-parts of big cities for them to win an election.

Read them and it shows they have leant nothing as a PLP.

 

[Rascal]

Read them and it shows they have leant nothing as a PLP.

The party is fucked mate. I am thinking more and more it should just disband, let the left go there own way and the moderates the other and accept that we will be living in a Tory hell hole for at least two decades.

I really don't see a way back at all, we have one of the worst governments in history and it is still very likely to be re-elected with a thumping majority because there is no salient alternative. Starmer is fucking useless and the party is too London centric. If the Tories can get away with the gross negligence they have over the COVID crisis they can get away with anything they want as long as brexit is delivered. The only chance and it is a horrible chance too is that if the tories totally fuck up brexit and the country suffers because of its incompetence it make open a way back, but if Labour become a rejoin party then it wont. Labour has to support BREXIT now. It should always of done, but it may be too late.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Labour has to support BREXIT now. It should always of done, but it may be too late.

Agreed.
If Labour had gone full on support for Brexit the red wall may not have collapsed, damaged yes, but still sound. I still think they'd have lost because
of Corbyn, but not been battered, which would have augured well for the future, imo.

 

[Rascal]

Agreed.
If Labour had gone full on support for Brexit the red wall may not have collapsed, damaged yes, but still sound. I still think they'd have lost because
of Corbyn, but not been battered, which would have augured well for the future, imo.

It should always have done AC, i would argue that if Corbyn had backed it unequivocally the bad press he received would have never happened and his foible's would have been ignored because he backed the "will" of the people and the spotlight would have been on those who didn't back brexit. The majority of the UK media backed brexit, they would not undermine that by disgracing a brexit champion. I know it is cynical, but it is only what Johnson has done.

It would also have kept the red wall onside, but maybe lost the liberal metro area's of London and maybe even Manchester, but as Scotland has gone it would have kept Labour in the game rather than now looking like a broken husk of a party set on a suicide mission.

I have said a few times on here, that Osborne deserves a lot of credit for a brilliant piece of Politicking because he knew brexit would break the Labour party as much if not more than the Tories.

 

[joe123]

Interesting, albeit depressing, debate on Politics Live between Lloyd Russell-Moyle and Paul Embery highlighting the rift between different factions of Labour if anyone caught it. As a Labour voter, quite a sad state of affairs.

 

[mat]

Interesting, albeit depressing, debate on Politics Live between Lloyd Russell-Moyle and Paul Embery highlighting the rift between different factions of Labour if anyone caught it. As a Labour voter, quite a sad state of affairs.

There’s plenty in the tories as well but they get a free pass.

 

[joe123]

There’s plenty in the tories as well but they get a free pass.

I don't disagree, but those cunts prioritise being in power, whereas we seem to want to win the argument first.

 

[Cheesy]

I'm too busy (fortunately) to post on here much lately but I caught a bit of Politics Live on BBC 2 this morning.

A full on argument really between Paul Embery and Lloyd Russel-Moyle which summed up perfectly the state of the Labour party currently.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

There’s plenty in the tories as well but they get a free pass.

Yes, it seems the BBC don't perceive there to be as much value in getting IDS or Rees Mogg on to have a 'debate' with a more left leaning/moderate member of their party - it would kick off just as much.

 

[mat]

Yes, it seems the BBC don't perceive there to be as much value in getting IDS or Rees Mogg on to have a 'debate' with a more left leaning/moderate member of their party - it would kick off just as much.

It could well be the elitist argument again.

Both JRM and IDS debate in such a way and use language that seems alien to us plebs. Even with their insults for each other and the classes.

Ive watched JRM act like he’s down with the common man whilst insulting him in a very calm and calculating manner which riles said pleb and makes them look the ****.

 

[Summerbuzz]

Yes, it seems the BBC don't perceive there to be as much value in getting IDS or Rees Mogg on to have a 'debate' with a more left leaning/moderate member of their party - it would kick off just as much.

I'm frequently of the opinion that the BBC look like an organisation that has been leant on in one way or another by the Tories, particularly Govt, but the reality here is that it doesn't happen because the Tories wouldn't do it!

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

It could well be the elitist argument again.

Both JRM and IDS debate in such a way and use language that seems alien to us plebs. Even with their insults for each other and the classes.

Ive watched JRM act like he’s down with the common man whilst insulting him in a very calm and calculating manner which riles said pleb and makes them look the ****.

He's an eloquent speaker, but up against a more moderate tory like Starmer I think he'd come unstuck.

 

[mat]

He's an eloquent speaker, but up against a more moderate tory like Starmer I think he'd come unstuck.

Moggy’s private school education comes out in parliament. He likes to quote Greek legends and history as well in his answers.

 

[Rascal]

Moggy’s private school education comes out in parliament. He likes to quote Greek legends and history as well in his answers.

“You, why are you so afraid of war and slaughter? Even if all the rest of us drop and die around you, grappling for the ships, you’d run no risk of death: you lack the heart to last it out in combat—coward!”

 

[Vic]

It should always have done AC, i would argue that if Corbyn had backed it unequivocally the bad press he received would have never happened and his foible's would have been ignored because he backed the "will" of the people and the spotlight would have been on those who didn't back brexit. The majority of the UK media backed brexit, they would not undermine that by disgracing a brexit champion. I know it is cynical, but it is only what Johnson has done.

It would also have kept the red wall onside, but maybe lost the liberal metro area's of London and maybe even Manchester, but as Scotland has gone it would have kept Labour in the game rather than now looking like a broken husk of a party set on a suicide mission.

I have said a few times on here, that Osborne deserves a lot of credit for a brilliant piece of Politicking because he knew brexit would break the Labour party as much if not more than the Tories.

How would all the labour Remain voters in red wall seats (the majority of Labour voters even in those seats) have voted?

 

[mat]

“You, why are you so afraid of war and slaughter? Even if all the rest of us drop and die around you, grappling for the ships, you’d run no risk of death: you lack the heart to last it out in combat—coward!”

Wouldn't be surprised if he quoted the whole book to filibuster in the past.

 

[Rascal]

How would all the labour Remain voters in red wall seats (the majority of Labour voters even in those seats) have voted?

I suppose we shall never know, but by being unequivocal rather than being ambiguous it may have staved off the losses.

It didn't help that the LEXIT position gained hardly any traction in the media or that the party was involved in the antisemitism debacle, but it could have persuaded those who were sick of hearing about brexit that voting Labour would still get brexit done.

 

[urban genie]

How would all the labour Remain voters in red wall seats (the majority of Labour voters even in those seats) have voted?

As a labour voter who voted remain I would have still backed labour if they had come out saying we will get brexit done, and I maybe know only a few friends who are labour voters who would maybe have been annoyed by it, but not sure they would have voted someone else.

Labours biggest fuck up was not following through and commiting to leaving after the referendum.

And cobyn lost my lot of my support and a lot of respect when he abandoned his long standing bennite stance on europe and dithered and caved to the PLP bellends calling to fight to remain.
His smugness at times was also a factor as was his head in the sand position on things he didn't like to discuss, with his real lack of anything but a soft left socialist stance also put me off the gimp.

I want to stay in the EU, for specific reasins, but the country didn't, I respected that decision an so should have labour.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

As a labour voter who voted remain I would have still backed labour if they had come out saying we will get brexit done, and I maybe know only a few friends who are labour voters who would maybe have been annoyed by it, but not sure they would have voted someone else.

Labours biggest fuck up was not following through and commiting to leaving after the referendum.

And cobyn lost my lot of my support and a lot of respect when he abandoned his long standing bennite stance on europe and dithered and caved to the PLP bellends calling to fight to remain.
His smugness at times was also a factor as was his head in the sand position on things he didn't like to discuss, with his real lack of anything but a soft left socialist stance also put me off the gimp.

I want to stay in the EU, for specific reasins, but the country didn't, I respected that decision an so should have labour.

Corbyn was an absolute shambles for the Labour Party.