Keir Starmer

[Rascal]

This particular topic is one that's done a lot of damage to Labour, the left of
the party obsess about Palestine and virtually disregard the hundreds of other issues worldwide. Whenever Corbyn, or McDonnell were giving speeches, the crowd would be littered with Palestinian flags, something way down in the concerns of most folk. Never any outrage about the brutal, vicious theocracies
surrounding the place, nothing about Russia, Venezuela, or China, just this one
group of people.

That may be your perception, but that does not make it true. The media obsess over the fact a few Labour members campaign for Palestine, but the media don't report about the Labour campaign for Human Rights. A campaign that supports UK soldiers for instance from Government exploitation.

It campaigns for the rights of Chagos Islanders, Western Papua, The Sarahawi people, it supports the Kurds against theocracies.

It is Labour that campaigns against the selling of arms to the brutal theocracies you mention whilst the Tories happily take their money and watch on as the brutal theocracies obliterate Yemeni civilians.

Why would the Labour party campaign against Venezuela? A country that has suffered under the hands of imperialistic American oppression.

It wasn't the Labour Party who is letting China build Nuclear power plants or sign trade deals, it was the Tories.

And it is Farage who adores Putin.

So you are just plain wrong.

 

[urban genie]

This particular topic is one that's done a lot of damage to Labour, the left of
the party obsess about Palestine and virtually disregard the hundreds of other issues worldwide. Whenever Corbyn, or McDonnell were giving speeches, the crowd would be littered with Palestinian flags, something way down in the concerns of most folk. Never any outrage about the brutal, vicious theocracies
surrounding the place, nothing about Russia, Venezuela, or China, just this one
group of people.

Actually you will find as the middle east has spent the last few decades being facination of both the UK and US, any commentary on the Isreal/Palestinian issue gets more attention as clickbait and cranks on social media.

Presently the lebanese protests are the lefts main focus in that area not palestine.


Left wing organisations in the UK you will find spend a lot of time on campaigns on the tamils, kurds, sudan, yemen, nigeria, the oppression of womens groups in south africa.

As for China the CWI were one of the first groups to throw support behind the protests in Hong Kong and also their are several campaigns to encourge chinese opposition to the labour camps and mistreatment of the uyghur, with some calling for an independent state, as I recall the right wing and conservatism only wants sanctions which is really more about trade with China and less about people in consentration camps

On Russia, socialism and unions are regularaly oppreseed by Putin and his government and many left wing campaigns about jailed Union leaders and oppresssion in Khazakhstan, uzbeckistan and belarus etc are ongoing, yet we onpy hear abput labpur not condeming the occupation of ukrainian territory (even though the left did)

But none of these things are deemed newsworthy and there are hundreds upon hundreds of news stories and campaigns in this nation that will never be heard of unless you are eqgerly involved or interested in finding out about.


I will admit many left wingers annoy and frustrate me on their willingness to ignore or excuse oppression to maintain an anti-capitalist/imperialist chain of thought, but the left is no worse and I would say very much less worst than the right wing when it comes to ignoring many regiems actions to suit themselves

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Why would the Labour party campaign against Venezuela? A country that has suffered under the hands of imperialistic American oppression.

Whenever socialism, as implemented by Chavez and his ilk fails, and here it
failed spectacularly, the first people blamed are the Yanks. This 'Imperial American Oppression' wasn't doing much harm before he appeared, Venezuela was the most prosperous country in South America it's now a poverty stricken, crime plagued hellhole. The leader is doing OK though.

It campaigns for the rights of Chagos Islanders, Western Papua, The Sarahawi people, it supports the Kurds against theocracies.

Yet I've yet to see any of those flags being waved about.

 

[urban genie]

Yet I've yet to see any of those flags being waved about.

In what sense,? At what event?


Last left wing march/protest I went to the free the cuban 5 lot had cuban flags, the Kurdistan movement were flying the YPG flags (even though that us illegal in the UK), the free tibet lot had tibetan flags, the tamils had the old tiger flags, then you get the usual soviet or fed flags and of course those campaigning for palestinians had the flag of palestian.

I suppose if ypu pass the fortnightly palestinian protest that used to happen in the gardens that groups like socialist worker would turn up and cling onto you woyld get the impression that flag is associated with left wingers.

But then the socialist worker party are cunts I would happily see locked in a deep pit.

 

[Ban-jani]

This particular topic is one that's done a lot of damage to Labour, the left of
the party obsess about Palestine and virtually disregard the hundreds of other issues worldwide. Whenever Corbyn, or McDonnell were giving speeches, the crowd would be littered with Palestinian flags, something way down in the concerns of most folk. Never any outrage about the brutal, vicious theocracies
surrounding the place, nothing about Russia, Venezuela, or China, just this one
group of people.

Yemen is one of the greatest crisis in the world at the moment and before anyone calls me a hypocrite, I donate money to Human Appeal’s emergency fund for Yemen, there’s children starving to death there, due to a pointless war that Saudi Arabia should back away from.

Where are the Yemeni flags? That’s a more critical crisis and whilst I have sympathies for Palestinians caught in the conflict, whilst I despise Netanyahu, I do not take the approach Corbyn did when he said regarding Israel’s right to exist “well that’s up for debate”.

They have these views within their ranks but then deny them and deny it’s their fault.

One poster the other day said the accusations of antisemitism and how he believed it stopped his politics gaining power (it wasn’t just that), makes him want to be antisemitic now.

That’s what we are dealing with.

 

[Rascal]

Whenever socialism, as implemented by Chavez and his ilk fails, and here it
failed spectacularly, the first people blamed are the Yanks. This 'Imperial American Oppression' wasn't doing much harm before he appeared, Venezuela was the most prosperous country in South America it's now a poverty stricken, crime plagued hellhole. The leader is doing OK though.

Yet I've yet to see any of those flags being waved about.

I just knew you would fall into the Venezuela trap. It is a line trotted out by the right every time to discredit Socialism. Hook line and sinker. Even the Daily Mail reported there was CIA interference.

You didn't reply on the others i mentioned about selling arms to brutal theocracies though, so i assume you defend that, because that it was Capitalists do, they defend the indefensible, they are happy to see profit put before people and the poor people of Yemen suffer because of it and the Tories do nothing.

You do see Chagos Flags, it has been a Labour cause for a generation and now that the fucking clown Trump has recognised Morocco as having the territorial claim over the Western Sahara, i expect there will be an increase in Saharwi flags as well.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

I just knew you would fall into the Venezuela trap. It is a line trotted out by the right every time to discredit Socialism. Hook line and sinker. Even the Daily Mail reported there was CIA interference.

I've fallen into no trap, Venezuela was ruined, and continues to be, by Chavez and his successor, Chavez travelled around the country pointing at businesses, asking about their profits, and ordered them to be expropriated. It was him and his policies that ruined the place, not the Americans, nobody credits them with Venezuela being prosperous before this.
10 countries sell arms to Saudi Arabia, China and Russia sell to Iran, so if there is consensus between all of them to not do so, it would stop, but it's unlikely.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

In what sense,? At what event?


Last left wing march/protest I went to the free the cuban 5 lot had cuban flags, the Kurdistan movement were flying the YPG flags (even though that us illegal in the UK), the free tibet lot had tibetan flags, the tamils had the old tiger flags, then you get the usual soviet or fed flags and of course those campaigning for palestinians had the flag of palestian.

I suppose if ypu pass the fortnightly palestinian protest that used to happen in the gardens that groups like socialist worker would turn up and cling onto you woyld get the impression that flag is associated with left wingers.

But then the socialist worker party are cunts I would happily see locked in a deep pit.

In this sense, it doesn't get much bigger than the Labour party conference, Palestinian flags were everywhere.



According to the commentator, all handed out by the party officials, so I'd
suggest that there are valid reasons to say that Labour are obsessed with it.

 

[Ban-jani]

In this sense, it doesn't get much bigger than the Labour party conference, Palestinian flags were everywhere.



According to the commentator, all handed out by the party officials, so I'd
suggest that there are valid reasons to say that Labour are obsessed with it.

Don’t forget, they had aspirations not just to be a fringe protest movement but the government of the UK, who would have had to negotiate with Israel and Israel’s allies.

I’ve made my thoughts clear before on the atrocities in the region and Israel’s faults, but to take such a partisan view when you want to be a world leader and to do so by aiming some of the vitriol at British Jews, just shows how far away they were from ever being fit to lead this country.

 

[Rascal]

I've fallen into no trap, Venezuela was ruined, and continues to be, by Chavez and his successor, Chavez travelled around the country pointing at businesses, asking about their profits, and ordered them to be expropriated. It was him and his policies that ruined the place, not the Americans, nobody credits them with Venezuela being prosperous before this.
10 countries sell arms to Saudi Arabia, China and Russia sell to Iran, so if there is consensus between all of them to not do so, it would stop, but it's unlikely.

You are doing it again, classic RW crackpot deflection.

You stated Labour only care about one thing, you were wrong.

Just be a grown up and admit it.

 

[Rascal]

It is almost ironic that Starmer is purging the party of left wing Jews. There are currently 35 claims of antisemitic behaviour against Left wing Jews being investigated and 11 Left Wing Jewish members have been expelled or suspended as a result of these charges.

It sort of confirms really that the whole antisemitism scandal was about getting rid of the left wing of the party so the centrists could claim power.

A statement was issued on behalf of these left wing Jewish members that read.

"we are appalled by the large and growing numbers of Jewish members of the Labour party-including ourselves-who have recently been subjected to disciplinary proceedings related to alleged antisemitism. This fact alone - over and above the trumped up and politicised nature of the charges- makes a mockery of Keir Starmer's commitment to ensuring Labour is a safe space for Jews.

It is now abundantly clear that this commitment does not cover discrimination against Jewish Socialists. On the contrary , Starmer's abuse of our Jewish identity and his willingness to exploit antisemitism as a political football is shameful and harmful not only to freedom of expression but also to fight against real antisemitism ad racism of all forms both in and outside of the Labour Party."

It was signed by

George Wilmers
Graham Bash
Mike Cushman
Diana Neslan
Michael Ellman
Glyn Secker
Naomi Wimborne Idrissi
Jo Bird
Moshe Machover
Stephen Solley QC
Jonathon Rosenhead
Michael Howard

The Labour right's tactic of hiding behind Jewish people to attack the left is cowardly and vile - and the abuse of Left Wing Jews exposes the real reason behind it.

==============================================================================

My feeling is this is going to run and run and it will bring down Starmer and maybe show he was complicit in this coup against the Left and its continued purge of the Left will destroy the party for good.

Strange that there has been no interest at all in this. A massive event in a thread about the Labour party.

It is almost like people are fine with antisemitism as long as it is against left wing Jews and sanctioned by Starmer.

No condemnation, nothing, not even one reply.

I thought the Gobs on sticks who loved to shout antisemite at Corbyn have all gone blind. (not aimed at you PB btw)

 

[Rascal]

In this sense, it doesn't get much bigger than the Labour party conference, Palestinian flags were everywhere.



According to the commentator, all handed out by the party officials, so I'd
suggest that there are valid reasons to say that Labour are obsessed with it.

LOL

A video by David Gross, a Conservative writer for Standpoint magazine crammed full of disproved propaganda on an Israeli new channel.

Is that really the best you can do.

There was a motion to recognise Palestine as a state, Gross's commentary does not reflect what was happening.

 

[Rascal]

I've fallen into no trap, Venezuela was ruined, and continues to be, by Chavez and his successor, Chavez travelled around the country pointing at businesses, asking about their profits, and ordered them to be expropriated. It was him and his policies that ruined the place, not the Americans, nobody credits them with Venezuela being prosperous before this.
10 countries sell arms to Saudi Arabia, China and Russia sell to Iran, so if there is consensus between all of them to not do so, it would stop, but it's unlikely.

So a video in Spanish by a Washington Post journalist proves what exactly? It doesn't disapprove CIA intereference

Hugo Chavez was elected on a socialist platform, so expropriating private property was he was elected to do.

Are you an anti democrat now too, because you banged on and on about democracy on the brexit thread.

Any more tired old anti leftist tropes you want to throw my way?

 

[urban genie]

In this sense, it doesn't get much bigger than the Labour party conference, Palestinian flags were everywhere.



According to the commentator, all handed out by the party officials, so I'd
suggest that there are valid reasons to say that Labour are obsessed with it.

You do know that was debate in the confremce abput 2 yeaes ago on palestine and of the thousands of depegares that attend confrences ther we maybe a hundred or so there doing that.

Personally I wouldn't have a
handed out those flags or allowed them to be distributed as I ain't overly arsed about the such meaningless gestures.

During a conference for any party there are tonnes of debates attended by many different members, your generalisation that one debate in conference week means that their is an obsession by all of labour and the left is a bit of a stretch

The commentator on your link doesn't even show the debate in full but idley speculates.

 

[Ban-jani]

You do know that was debate in the confremce abput 2 yeaes ago on palestine and of the thousands of depegares that attend confrences ther we maybe a hundred or so there doing that.

Personally I wouldn't have a
handed out those flags or allowed them to be distributed as I ain't overly arsed about the such meaningless gestures.

During a conference for any party there are tonnes of debates attended by many different members, your generalisation that one debate in conference week means that their is an obsession by all of labour and the left is a bit of a stretch

The commentator on your link doesn't even show the debate in full but idley speculates.

You’re a reasonable and sensible individual, unfortunately others aren’t.

 

[Rascal]

You do know that was debate in the confremce abput 2 yeaes ago on palestine and of the thousands of depegares that attend confrences ther we maybe a hundred or so there doing that.

Personally I wouldn't have a
handed out those flags or allowed them to be distributed as I ain't overly arsed about the such meaningless gestures.

During a conference for any party there are tonnes of debates attended by many different members, your generalisation that one debate in conference week means that their is an obsession by all of labour and the left is a bit of a stretch

The commentator on your link doesn't even show the debate in full but idley speculates.

It is a propaganda piece that it is all.

On the you tube piece, the interviewer asks why there where no Union Flags being flown. I would have replied, Maybe its because the Labour Party ain't the BNP and in UK politics there has never been much call for Nationalistic flag waving at conferences.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

So a video in Spanish by a Washington Post journalist proves what exactly? It doesn't disapprove CIA intereference

Hugo Chavez was elected on a socialist platform, so expropriating private property was he was elected to do.

Are you an anti democrat now too, because you banged on and on about democracy on the brexit thread.

Any more tired old anti leftist tropes you want to throw my way?

I am telling you what you don't want to hear I'm afraid, I'm not disputing the legitimacy of Chavez's election, I'm telling you the upshot of it. The Americans were not responsible for some ruler going around the country seizing private property and installing party/crony supervision. This was done on a large scale, including farms, so just like Zimbabwe, it descended into poverty, crime and misery, as nobody can run successful businesses by ousting the owners, it's an ideological fallacy, and each and every attempt
brings the same results.

 

[urban genie]

 

[urban genie]

A bit of that leadership would be for him to also tell people who suppport him to stay home and not travel from tier 4 areas


He needs to npw pay into Johnsons ineptitude and also call on Londoners and those in the south east to act responsibly

 

[Ancient Citizen]

You do know that was debate in the confremce abput 2 yeaes ago on palestine and of the thousands of depegares that attend confrences ther we maybe a hundred or so there doing that.

Personally I wouldn't have a
handed out those flags or allowed them to be distributed as I ain't overly arsed about the such meaningless gestures.

During a conference for any party there are tonnes of debates attended by many different members, your generalisation that one debate in conference week means that their is an obsession by all of labour and the left is a bit of a stretch

The commentator on your link doesn't even show the debate in full but idley speculates.

I'll bypass the deflections, and concentrate on the event, so why have a debate about Palestine? The UK populace has virtually no great interest in the topic, yet Labour decide to hand out flags at their conference, and give time for it. You may not agree, but Corbyn and his ilk, the principle drivers of this obsession, were responsible for the election hammering.