COVID-19 — Coronavirus

[roubaixtuesday]

Dont we have to abide by EU freedom of movement laws though. We have 2.4m EU nationals working in the UK.

I agree with you but I don’t think we could have done this without breaking this law.

I may be wrong though.

No, FOM can be suspended in emergency. For example, France did that last week. Austria did during the refugee crisis.

 

[blue b4 the moon]

As an island nation it was in our grasp to rid ourselves of the virus in the late spring/summer.

cases were in 100’s, deaths in single figures.

but we didn’t lock borders, we didn’t enforce quarantine, and people didn’t do the simple adherence of an almost ‘normal’ life.

NZ is living a normal life, Taiwan is living a normal life,Aus is living a normal life (with severe local lockdowns if idiots break incoming quarantine - Melbourne, Sydney), a host of other small island nations are similar.

the chance came and went.

It would have been a lot harder to enforce here but yes you are spot on.

It hit home today watching Melbourne City in Brisbane, crowds,no restrictions, no masks etc.

 

[sniff]

But why didn't they factor those possibles/probables into it? Even early on NHS were dropping like flies.

I think the NHS was already understaffed, But to admit that is political suicide. They brought about 5000 back in April ish. as far as im aware they didnt need them and most returned to what they was doing pre covid. my thinking is that the government have blagged this like you couldn't believe. Im not sure they took the advice from the Dr's and Scientist's on this front and are massively under prepared for the fuck up that has been the "tier system" its not worked at all, and now with this new strain, the shit has hit the fan. Now they have to rip up the Tier system as its not fit for purpose with a virus that is 50% more transmissible, yet they seemingly haven't got the ball's or more to the point, the financial wiggle room to do another national lock down.

The new strain has created the perfect storm in a sense. Whats happening now is nothing, its spreading like crazy and everyone is in the notoriously quiet Christmas period, with most effectively isolating or sticking to friends groups. Once the school, workplaces and public transport are back to Monday morning capacity.. things could get really messy.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

exactly the same problem with a lockdown because those people need to be accessed. So your solution doesn't save anyone else. The same "hundreds of thousands" that haven't died at any point would die either way.

No, lockdown and shielding are not the same thing. By lock down, I refer to the restrictions in place in March. Shielding requires far, far more restrictions. And has proved ineffective - we can't keep covid out of care homes.

 

[mackenzie]

You think the govt has had any long term plan in any of this?!?
It was clear they didn’t when it took 6 weeks after being told to lockdown 1.0 that they did.
And also opening the borders in late spring.

Other than the hope of a vaccine, they have no long term plan, and hoped for a short term ‘going away’ of it.

hence where we are

Which is sort of what I was getting at in the beginning.

 

[Healdplace]

NORTH WEST HOSPITAL DATA

Patients 2245 / 2103 / 2144 / 2226 / 2346 TODAY

Much like Yorkshire only a small increase over Christmas and still well below the over 3000 they had in at the wave 2 peak in October/November or the wave 1 peak in April just below 3000. Actually down from 2399 7 days ago. Whereas London was about 1700 up in the week.

Ventilators 156 / 164 / 161 / 169 / 175 TODAY

A little less good here and it has risen since Christmas but nothing like London. Still 100 below the wave 2 peak in early November and half the 350 peak during wave 1 in April.

London - though - is a taste of future past in the NW if we do nothing in coming days.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

because your own half baked measure doesn't work

It does work. Every time we, or any other country in the world, has put severe restrictions in place, infections have dropped.

That's all we need to do - if infections are falling rather than rising, then we can vaccinate the country.

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

No, lockdown and shielding are not the same thing. By lock down, I refer to the restrictions in place in March. Shielding requires far, far more restrictions. And has proved ineffective - we can't keep covid out of care homes.

so there's no point either way then if we can't protect the vulnerable either way. Shielding is stay at home and don't go out, you can add unnecessary addendums if you wish but the principle is the same, you're just locking down those who have access to the vaccine coming up.

 

[JASR]

It would have been a lot harder to enforce here but yes you are spot on.

It hit home today watching Melbourne City in Brisbane, crowds,no restrictions, no masks etc.

Yeah, I don’t blame BoJo for not. It was (as I’ve said multiple times) an impossible decision to lockdown the borders back in feb, as it was an impossible situation to fully comprehend.

by late spring/summer it was obvious that locking borders was possible (people can help U.K. by going on holiday in U.K.) and a correct thing to do, but ‘we’ didn’t.
Nor did we enforce quarantine for returnees (covid hotels)

 

[roubaixtuesday]

so there's no point either way then if we can't protect the vulnerable either way

Yes, we can. If overall prevalence is low, very few people, vulnerable or otherwise, get infected.

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

It does work. Every time we, or any other country in the world, has put severe restrictions in place, infections have dropped.

That's all we need to do - if infections are falling rather than rising, then we can vaccinate the country.

not with the new variant they haven't, by the time your month is up the new variant will still be rampant and it'll take at least another week and a half for Christmas to hit, then the post Christmas jollies after that and then the clandestine New Year if you locked down tomorrow the week after. So you'll have a week to crush an extremely transmissable variant when after 3/4 months of the first lockdown the minute we opened up it started going up again and that was with the original strain, and the minute we opened up the second time it went through the roof and we got a mutation thrown in. And you don't have enough vaccine and can't possibly vaccinate enough people in the next month, two or three. You're basically picking favourites and asking the rest to kick their suffering down the road because you won't be able to help them.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

You're basically picking favourites and asking the rest to kick their suffering down the road because you won't be able to help them.

Well, what you lay out is a possible worst case scenario. I think it's unlikely from what we know.

Your alternative, however, is to infect everyone in the country and kill 1% of them (actually likely a lot more because the hospitals will be full).

I prefer my approach.

 

[grunge]

More, and more Doctors are voicing serious concerns about the safety of these Covid vaccines.

Doctors Around the World Issue Dire WARNING: DO NOT GET THE COVID VACCINE!!

In an effort to combat Big Pharma Corporate Media and Big Tech censorship, doctors around the world are frantically trying to warn the masses of the devastating effects of the experimental COVID vaccines about to be mass injected into the unsuspecting public assisted by military forces around...

healthimpactnews.com

the same doctors who were shouting about hydrochloriquin? ( no idea on spelling )

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

Well, what you lay out is a possible worst case scenario. I think it's unlikely from what we know.

Your alternative, however, is to infect everyone in the country and kill 1% of them (actually likely a lot more because the hospitals will be full).

I prefer my approach.

no, it isn't. Mine is realistic based on the position we're already in. You're the one with the doomsday hundreds of thousands dead narrative unless we lockdown everyone instead of locking down the vulnerable and those on the vaccine list to protect them for the vaccines which we only have enough for them to have. A lockdown that will only last long enough to merely touch upon suppressing the new variant, and basically cause more mental health and economic damage when you don't have an answer to protecting everyone else and the economy in the process, just putting them as lambs to the slaughter in a month's time before you campaign for a March lockdown. A lockdown you've admitted can't protect the vulnerable people anyway, and a method that is unproven on a super transmissable variant that clearly needs the slightest opportunity to spread. Such so that only martial law and no-one leaving their homes till they're vaccinated with a proven safe and effective vaccine would be sufficient.

I sincerely, and I have been honest the whole way through with you, think you're seriously misjudging the effectiveness of a month long lockdown at this point.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Are those 91% and 95% figures true? ( Source?)
Serious question - because if they are, wtf are we playing around at?

Done some research and apparantly its because they don't know the long term immunity from 1 jab lasts or whether having the 2nd jab months later is effective.
Basically approval was granted for the two shot regime - for a one shot now and another months later a new approval needs to be sought.

A Single Vaccine Dose Appears To Protect Against COVID-19. So Why Are We Giving Two?

The question "is a really difficult moral and scientific one," says Harvard epidemiologist, Barry Bloom. And finding the right answer may depend on research that has yet to be done.

www.wbur.org

 

[55yr old teenager]

The first place in Manchester to start vaccinating was Wythenshawe and they were starting with the over eighties I believe? This was mooted at starting well over a week ago yet I've seen and heard nothing since. My parents live there and are both in their eighties yet haven't heard a thing. I'm wondering exactly how many people over eighty are there in Wythenshawe and how are they rolling it out, if they have started.?

My mum is due to have her 2and vaccine on 7 Jan. She lives In Heald green. Gp surgery is peel hall, Wythenshawe. She is 80. Vaccine was given at the lifestyle centre I woodhouse park

 

[Del_Bosque]

My mum is due to have her 2and vaccine on 7 Jan. She lives In Heald green. Gp surgery is peel hall, Wythenshawe. She is 80. Vaccine was given at the lifestyle centre I woodhouse park

yea, my great Aunt is 84 and is due her 2nd does on 11th Jan based in Wyth

 

[paulchapo]

My mum is due to have her 2and vaccine on 7 Jan. She lives In Heald green. Gp surgery is peel hall, Wythenshawe. She is 80. Vaccine was given at the lifestyle centre I woodhouse park

See I wonder how people are selected. If it's age then an 89 year old should be vaccinated first. I would have thought they'd have been given some indication but they've heard nothing. I doubt there are thousands made it over eighty in with but I might be wrong.

 

[Ric]

Have tidied this up now as it was getting a bit out of hand. Let's keep the discussion civil, and please report anyone you think is wumming or derailing the thread in future so that we can deal with it more efficiently. Thanks.

 

[Bill]

Firstly, we’d be in a damn site better situation if people stopped spreading the virus around by doing things that aren’t vital in crowds or close contact in homes. It would reduce the risk massively. Lockdowns wouldn’t need to be as strict of people did the right and sensible thing. Eventually, even if you’re not in a room with anyone high risk, it very easily, almost definitely, will reach someone high risk with the millions of people doing the wrong things because many people have to visit or do live with someone high risk somewhere along the line.

And you don’t even have to be high risk to be in danger. Elite athletes are noticing how hard this is hitting them and it’s affecting their performance levels (Steve Bruce said as much this week) so what’s it doing to the normal population? Doctors are saying this is leaving scarring on the lungs like a muscular tear would to a bicep. This could affect even healthy people for life.

Going to Tesco is essential. I go about once every two weeks because I batch cook soups and stews so I don’t have to go there too often. I go on my own later on at night so I’m not around on the busy times, wash my hands before going, sanitise my hands and upon getting there and upon leaving, I take my own bag so not to touch any trolleys or baskets, I wear a mask, I keep my distance from others and I wipe down (packets) or give a little wash (fruit/veg) what I’ve bought when I get home.

That is very different, and much safer, than going round my parents’, then my Sister’s, then three different mates’ houses all in the space of a few days at a time when tens of thousands of people are contacting the virus every single day, just because it’s Christmas. What if everyone in the country had that attitude. The NHS are already not coping, if everyone just thought “fuck this, I’ll be alright even if I do get it” cases would be in the hundreds of thousands d day, covid patients would be on hospital floors and the NHS would be in a terrible state. Never mind the deaths.

If people stopped doing things they are being told not to do, cases would be lower, restrictions would be lower, the economy wouldn’t be taking such a hit and each time anything looked like kicking off another wave, the sensible acts of people would keep that wave in check and the lockdowns wouldn’t last as long.

There’s no such thing as not knowing where it is so don’t bother running away from it. We should all be doing the sensible thing. We should only ever be going out anywhere if we really need to. I’ve been doing this since March and I live in my own. If everyone did this, we would be in a much better position across the entire country. We would not have had nearly 90,000 excess deaths this year, our lockdowns wouldn’t have been so long and the economy would be in a better state.

Yes it’s inconvenient, yes it’s taking away part of our life, but these aren’t normal times.

outstanding post.