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Nationalising key industries are where my most left wing ideals lie. I’d be interested to see the details and the stretch of what it would include.
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Keir Starmer
- Thread starter urban genie
- Start date
Nationalising key industries are where my most left wing ideals lie. I’d be interested to see the details and the stretch of what it would include.
This is from his pledges, which will be manifesto policies.Public services should be in public hands, not making profits for shareholders. Support common ownership of rail, mail, energy and water; end outsourcing in our NHS, local government and justice system.
Rascal
El Presidente
He isn't making Labour more electable, he is making Capitalist excess and exploitation almost certain, he is making neo-liberal Pro Eu lovers damp in their panties and is pandering to the Blairite New Labour mob.Imagine wanting to win centrist votes!
In a country where most people are pretty centrist in their political views.
It's almost like Starmer wants to make Labour more electable.
What a fuckwit.
The country already has a party that appeals to centrists, how come the last time it was in power was in a coalition government and the last time it held power on its own was over 100 years ago.
Imitating the Tories is not the answer, we already have a Tory party and they have already got all the silly **** votes in the bank.
What Starmer is trying to do in my opinion, is turn the Labour Party into a socially conservative, economic liberal populist party akin to the Social Democratic Party started by the traitorous Gang of Four in the 80s and they didn't last long before they merged with the Liberals to form the Lib Dems who since have been almost wiped out as an electoral force.
Politics is now polarised, the centre is ground of myth, inhabited by charlatans and soothsayers.
As long as the Tories own the silly **** vote they will stay in power for decades, Starmer trying to win over the silly **** vote is like a Rag twat trying to turn me into being a Stretty Ender, just not going to happen.
Fame Monster
Well-Known Member
Momentum have committed to back Starmer. He ain't going to purge them, plus Momentum have only around 40,000 members , which is around 1 in 10 of all Labour party members
The Socialist Campaign group of MPs has links to Momentum and that includes many left wing MPs.
If he does purge Momentum and then by default the Socialist Campaign group, he will be left with about 100 MPs and a membership probably less than 300,000., maybe even approaching 200,000.
What the party loses if they purge Momentum further is the people who actually do the campaigning on the streets which is why we saw Rayner's pathetic begging video asking for members to volunteer to do the campaigning because people like me no longer bother.
It doesn't really matter though because there are enough silly cunts who will vote Tory whatever happens. They could reintroduce slavery, the death penalty, child labour, the Poor House, pretty much whatever they want, because Keith will vote for it or abstain anyway.
Momentum haven't really committed to backing Starmer. They've pretty much slagged him off to high heaven since he became leader. But it's not about banishing individual members, it's about banishing the MPs who attract the cranks to join the party and as I've mentioned before, they tend to be many of the same MPs in the Socialist Campaign Group. If that means 200,000 less members but 150 more seats at the next election then so be it.
Also, I should make clear, it's not the socialism that I have issue with. I think Labour should appeal to both socialists as well as social democrats. But a lot of the people who masquerade as socialists in the Labour Party seem to share many toxic views that have nothing to do with socialism, which make it impossible for the majority of people in this country to vote for Labour.
Look at the abstentions on Brexit. Whatever you think about Brexit or the trade agreement - and I don't even have to look to be sure but I know for a fact that Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott and the usual SCG cranks will have abstained. They don't give a fuck about making Labour electable in its heartlands again. It's one big joke to them. And as long as they have that attitude and have attitudes on Brexit, immigration, free speech, crime, deportations, foreign policy, race issues, patriotism and so on that the vast majority of people disagree with, especially so in working-class towns then they'll never win another election again.
blue cigar
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Your comments about Corbyn say it all, 3000 skeletons!Starmer is pretty left wing, it’s what the posters on here, the socialists, don’t understand.
His pledges, that will be made manifesto policies, include nationalising in key industries.
He would be the most left wing PM since the 1970’s and would be a big step to the left, compared to society now.
But, he’s not a purist socialist, so they don’t want him and he is seen as their enemy, because he’s clamped down on antisemitism, which included getting rid of some of their people, which kind of says it all.
The words “wood for the trees” and “cut off your nose to spite your face” come to mind when I read this thread.
Some would rather Labour lost and be vindicated that Corbyn was the man to lead Labour, than see Starmer become PM.
Starmer is more left wing than Miliband, the difference he has with Corbyn is he doesn’t have 3000 skeletons in his closet... he’s not been a friend of the IRA or Hamas or been laying wreaths at the graves of Jew murdering terrorists. He hasn’t said antisemitic things, despite the fact he served in an antisemitic cabinet, he’s not a donkey jacket wearing socialist, stuck in the 70s like Corbyn and McDonnell.
He’s a modern and eloquent social democrat, who is picking his battles with the Tories, in a calculated manner, which makes a change!
And for those saying he sits on the fence too much, I mean, it’s a little rich when you see Corbyn’s Brexit approach. The coward didn’t even admit he wanted to leave.
The rest is horse shit spouted by someone who wouldn't back the last labour leader but expects everyone to back this one?
It won't happen and it won't happen because he isn't left wing, he's a moderate like Blair and that is a big no no from the socialist element, sorry, the donkey jacket wearers.
From what I see he's a shithouse, a fence sitter who stands for nothing, a vacuum with a hair cut.
Hart of the Matter
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I think the vocabulary used in your post says it all. The more the hard left squeal about KS the more electable he will become.Your comments about Corbyn say it all, 3000 skeletons!
The rest is horse shit spouted by someone who wouldn't back the last labour leader but expects everyone to back this one?
It won't happen and it won't happen because he isn't left wing, he's a moderate like Blair and that is a big no no from the socialist element, sorry, the donkey jacket wearers.
From what I see he's a shithouse, a fence sitter who stands for nothing, a vacuum with a hair cut.
I’m not a Labour voter necessarily so why should I back Corbyn?Your comments about Corbyn say it all, 3000 skeletons!
The rest is horse shit spouted by someone who wouldn't back the last labour leader but expects everyone to back this one?
It won't happen and it won't happen because he isn't left wing, he's a moderate like Blair and that is a big no no from the socialist element, sorry, the donkey jacket wearers.
From what I see he's a shithouse, a fence sitter who stands for nothing, a vacuum with a hair cut.
Not everyone is a paid up member of a particular political party. I’ll vote for anyone who I think is most competent to lead the country and December the only choice I could see was LibDem, over the two big crocks of shit the Tories and Labour put up.
Now, out of the choices, Starmer is head and shoulders above the rest.
And no, he’s nothing like Blair. Look at his pledges page, you translate that into a manifesto and it’s the same as Corbyn’s in 2017. He’s going to nationalise the same industries and has the same commitments to climate change and social justice.
You cannot see the wood for the trees because you’re blaming him for kicking your favourite antisemites out.
PannickAtTheDisco
Well-Known Member
Keir is a bit like Everton. Nobody likes scousers but because Liverpool are so loathsome and repugnant Everton become more likeable by default for not being their cousins, until they open their mouth and remind you at heart their dippers.I think the vocabulary used in your post says it all. The more the hard left squeal about KS the more electable he will become.
Starmer is more likeable by virtue of the fact he's not Corbyn but then opens his mouth and reminds you he's still from the same ilk. Until he makes a clean break and ditches some of his unpalatable pledges then when it gets to election time the Tories will play on the voters doubts over whether Labour are a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese
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I shouldn't worry about his 10 pledges. They will be quietly dropped. They are just to keep the socialists quiet until he can get rid of them.Keir is a bit like Everton. Nobody likes scousers but because Liverpool are so loathsome and repugnant Everton become more likeable by default for not being their cousins, until they open their mouth and remind you at heart their dippers.
Starmer is more likeable by virtue of the fact he's not Corbyn but then opens his mouth and reminds you he's still from the same ilk. Until he makes a clean break and ditches some of his unpalatable pledges then when it gets to election time the Tories will play on the voters doubts over whether Labour are a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Fame Monster
Well-Known Member
Keir is a bit like Everton. Nobody likes scousers but because Liverpool are so loathsome and repugnant Everton become more likeable by default for not being their cousins, until they open their mouth and remind you at heart their dippers.
Starmer is more likeable by virtue of the fact he's not Corbyn but then opens his mouth and reminds you he's still from the same ilk. Until he makes a clean break and ditches some of his unpalatable pledges then when it gets to election time the Tories will play on the voters doubts over whether Labour are a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Great post.
Sir Keith could end up the most hated man in Britain, disliked by Corbynites and swing voters alike.
The polling is promising for him right now but there's only so long you can sit on a fence without getting splinters in your arse.
PannickAtTheDisco
Well-Known Member
I'd hope so. He's had a year in stasis, where the political game played so tediously before him has been on hold as the real world took precedence. Now with the deal done and vaccines on the way, the spotlight will move to the fallout and onto him and he has to make a mark this year. At the moment he is positively Millibandian in his lack of presence and impact and the polls will end up the same way.I shouldn't worry about his 10 pledges. They will be quietly dropped. They are just to keep the socialists quiet until he can get rid of them.
Hart of the Matter
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I think you under estimate him and the long game in play. The irony is that post Brexit he can play a more open hand. Pre Brexit, some of the pledges were not practical or legal as part of being in EU. Corbyn knew this (my view is he was actually in favour of leaving all along).I'd hope so. He's had a year in stasis, where the political game played so tediously before him has been on hold as the real world took precedence. Now with the deal done and vaccines on the way, the spotlight will move to the fallout and onto him and he has to make a mark this year. At the moment he is positively Millibandian in his lack of presence and impact and the polls will end up the same way.
Some nationalisation can be rebranded and made to look more palatable in a post Brexit world (do we really want our water supplies controlled by the French etc). Taking back control from multi nationals may also play to the mood music of our former Red Wallers.
Rascal
El Presidente
This is from Jon Lansman founder of Momentum.Momentum haven't really committed to backing Starmer. They've pretty much slagged him off to high heaven since he became leader.
“I will work to elect Keir as Prime Minister at the next election as hard as I can. If I disagree with things he’s doing, I will do it as constructively and comradely as I can…"
If they banish the MPs they lose the seats. If Starmer puts his own people up against Socialist Campaign Group incumbents it will split the Labour vote and they will still lose the seats.But it's not about banishing individual members, it's about banishing the MPs who attract the cranks to join the party and as I've mentioned before, they tend to be many of the same MPs in the Socialist Campaign Group. If that means 200,000 less members but 150 more seats at the next election then so be it.
Ironically if they had listened to Momentums wishes to democratise the selection process then Starmer the Socialist Campaign Group MPs would face reselection, but they didn't because they wanted to hang on to fuckwits like Watson
Labour has always been a broad church, the Left backed Blair because he was democratically elected, when a leftist was democratically elected the right threw their dummy out of the pram and actively undermined the leadership. Labour can no longer appeal to both because Social Democracy and Democratic Socialism is incompatible as the brexit debate has proven.Also, I should make clear, it's not the socialism that I have issue with. I think Labour should appeal to both socialists as well as social democrats.
What toxic views do you mean? And why are they masquerading as Socialists?But a lot of the people who masquerade as socialists in the Labour Party seem to share many toxic views that have nothing to do with socialism, which make it impossible for the majority of people in this country to vote for Labour.
Because it was a matter of principle. I would have voted against the deal because it is a shit deal and i would have preferred a no deal option, because a no deal option makes a Socialist state possible as it removes all the links to the EU.Look at the abstentions on Brexit. Whatever you think about Brexit or the trade agreement - and I don't even have to look to be sure but I know for a fact that Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott and the usual SCG cranks will have abstained. They don't give a fuck about making Labour electable in its heartlands again.
Starmer has managed to alienate leave, remain and fence sitters with his position.
I am as left as most on here, I am a working class lad from a council estate who lives in a council house and I am a leaver, i am against open door immigration, I am in favour of more police, I think criminals should be deported lawfully, I believe all races are equal and should abide by the law of the land. I think Free speech is important but there are limits because free speech comes with responsibility. I would say I am not a massive patriot but that is because of personal rather than political reasons. I believe we should have strong independent armed forces that should not come under the umbrella of NATO and i have long been a supporter of CND ad I oppose foreign wars based in imperalistic aims. I have no real disagreements with the people you call cranks, so you must think i am a crank.It's one big joke to them. And as long as they have that attitude and have attitudes on Brexit, immigration, free speech, crime, deportations, foreign policy, race issues, patriotism and so on that the vast majority of people disagree with, especially so in working-class towns then they'll never win another election again.
Which crank positions above do you think are the positions of a crank?
This fence sitting thing bemuses me.Great post.
Sir Keith could end up the most hated man in Britain, disliked by Corbynites and swing voters alike.
The polling is promising for him right now but there's only so long you can sit on a fence without getting splinters in your arse.
He’s picking his battles and playing a calculated long game. If he can sort out some of his MPs, you know Richard Burgeon and Dawn Butler as examples, he’s in with a shout.
jazzy
Well-Known Member
He couldn't win an arse kicking contest against a one legged man.
Based on?He couldn't win an arse kicking contest against a one legged man.
bluwes
Well-Known Member
More chance of winning I'm a CelebrityThis fence sitting thing bemuses me.
He’s picking his battles and playing a calculated long game. If he can sort out some of his MPs, you know Richard Burgeon and Dawn Butler as examples, he’s in with a shout.
jazzy
Well-Known Member
The fact he is useless , dull and about as much charisma as MorrisseyBased on?
Yeah let’s get someone bubbly like Boris... what could go wrong...The fact he is useless , dull and about as much charisma as Morrissey
He’ll win, I am confidentMore chance of winning I'm a Celebrity