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Trump has just released a two minute video denouncing the vile acts of yesterday.
Not live. Reading a prompter.
I think it was his concession speech although he never acknowledged Biden in it. It’s as close as you’ll get from him.

He’s been put under pressure from someone. You’d swear the guy was bipolar if you believed a word he was saying.

Claims he called the national guard immediately. So basically started with another lie.

I think he’ll be tied down for the next fortnight. He shouldn’t be let out of their sight.
 
Trump isn't legally allowed to live at Mar a Lago for more than 21 days per year due to an agreement he came to with the local authorities over the residential status of the facility (knowing Trump there was probably some sort of tax dodge involved).
He's just attempted sedition and you think he'll be bothered about overstaying his welcome in Florida?

Though maybe the Florida housing police would be better prepared.
 
Trump has just released a two minute video denouncing the vile acts of yesterday.
Not live. Reading a prompter.
I think it was his concession speech although he never acknowledged Biden in it. It’s as close as you’ll get from him.

He’s been put under pressure from someone. You’d swear the guy was bipolar if you believed a word he was saying.

Claims he called the national guard immediately. So basically started with another lie.

I think he’ll be tied down for the next fortnight. He shouldn’t be let out of their sight.

Here's some lies that show why I shouldn't be jailed........

 
Ah. Well, there’s a lot of debris floating around, to paraphrase Apollo 13. Thank you.

I’m not worried about him running any more. I wasn’t really ever in the first place. If he does, it will be as the de facto leader of the Patriot Party, not as a Republican. The GOP is going to be torn in two until Trump disappears.
I thought it might be a NASA job. ;-)

I agree the Republican Party is likely going to be torn asunder — I believe you and I discussed that awhile ago in the Trump thread (tag-teaming another poster who shall not be named that disagreed with us).

My worry is not about him running again per-say. He’ll fail if he does based mostly on electoral math(s) as the party fragments.

My (and others’) aim is to engage any and all mechanisms at our disposal to delegitimise and/or diminish him as a political figure, no matter how slight a cut. He is already functionally a martyr in the eyes of his followers; he has been for some time now. No actions taken over the next few weeks short of literally making him one is likely to move the needle in that regard.

What can be done is to lessen his real ability to influence the political system. He’ll be doing enough from his new media company and various RW social media platforms (that are unlikely to ban him like Twitter, Facebook, etc). And preventing him from ever being able to run for President again is a step in that direction.

And that’s without even mentioning the absolute necessity of showing there are consequences to a political figure undertaking the sort of actions he has to subvert an election (never mind everything that came before it).

It has to be shown that those holding the highest offices in the land will actually be held accountable. Trump is not the last of his ilk — more are coming. Most of them are much cleverer and ambitious, with a better understanding of the inner workings of the American political system. They’ll be more adept at skirting rules, norms, and consequences without making so much noise. And without any real threat of accountability, they’ll more freely leverage those talents, to potentially catastrophic ends. As will those like Cruz, Rubio, Hawley, etc that remain in positions of power. We know that they’ll still try, but any deterrents that can be erected are worth the effort in my opinion.

It’s not a perfect remedy. It may not have as great an impact as we would like even if it happens. But it is best one available. And it should be done, for so many reasons.

To paraphrase Richard in The Lion in Winter (and admittedly invert his meaning), when the fall is all that is left, it matters a great deal.

And Trump’s should be as graceless and bruising as possible.
 
To paraphrase Richard in The Lion in Winter (and admittedly invert his meaning), when the fall is all that is left, it matters a great deal.

And Trump’s should be as graceless and bruising as possible.
In as far as justice must be done and justice must be seen to be done, it's extremely crucial to find the correct legal basis for any actions. America entered into a spiral of disregard for the law after 9/11. The only victory here is to restore it's prestige and power. Republicans must be challenged to split along those lines so the long term problem can be isolated. We must not keep purposing it for furthering their wishes. That is how this started and why it continues. He is daring us to descend to his level in this fight. It must not fail and it must not be construed as a persecution of a figure by his enemies. That continues the long term trend of politicising the law, and keeps us focused on the cult of personality. It is time to find the moral high ground. It can easily be done. And it must. A legal system agnostic to personality and popularity has always been the only effective long term defence for democracy. Nations who achieve that have a unifying point of reference.

Societally, the other essential is legal oversight for the continued operation of social media platforms. This has been coming. It's too easy for Trump to run away from Twitter and Facebook and paint them as censors. The principle must be established that they are just another form of mass media, and so must be required to maintain standards conducive to the benefit of everyone. The government must provide a clear legal mandate for all such actions.

Clarifying the bounds of freedom of speech is the only head scratcher here. That has to go before the different sides. Without Trump in power pushing the buttons, the arguments can be heard, and a reasonable and robust response should be expected. The state has to reassert itself and it must be a consensus thing!
 
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Think the police officer dying might be the final straw for republicans. One way or the other it’s hard to see him being around another couple of weeks. Even Wall St Journal asking him to resign.

he wouldn't even resign if his own ego told him to do so - he would fire his own ego if it tried
 
In as far as justice must be done and justice must be seen to be done, it's extremely crucial to find the correct legal basis for any actions. America entered into a spiral of disregard for the law after 9/11. The only victory here is to restore it's prestige and power. Republicans must be challenged to split along those lines so the long term problem can be isolated. We must not keep purposing it for furthering their wishes. That is how this started and why it continues. He is daring us to descend to his level in this fight. It must not fail and it must not be construed as a persecution of a figure by his enemies. That continues the long term trend of politicising the law, and keeps us focused on the cult of personality. It is time to find the moral high ground. It can easily be done. And it must. A legal system agnostic to personality and popularity has always been the only effective long term defence for democracy. Nations who achieve that have a unifying point of reference.
I am honestly not sure if you agree with me that he needs to be held to account or are arguing he shouldn’t be impeached and removed because it could be seen as “political retribution”.

If it is the latter, I completely disagree, and would argue that is an extremely dangerous precedent to set, for any nation.

Edit: I have just seen your edit after I responded and perhaps we do agree, as I was not advocating for political revenge, but rather for a just end to a criminal reign. He shouldn’t leave gracefully after stabbing everyone in the back.
 
watching SKY News and last nights "patriotic protestors" seem reticent to be filmed oddly. They seem to be blaming Pence for the violence and the Police for allowing them to illegally carry firearms onto the Capitol Property... the great beauty of these idiots is they have been filmed and filmed themselves and the FBI are already checking up... the courts are going to be busy - I assume a lot of this stuff will be a Federal crime not a misdemeanour?
 
I am honestly not sure if you agree with me that he needs to be held to account or are arguing he shouldn’t be impeached and removed because it could be seen as “political retribution”.

If it is the latter, I completely disagree, and would argue that is an extremely dangerous precedent to set, for any nation.
No, Seb. There's black and white thinking in your reasoning. Trump must pay. Or Trump must be set free. This is a critical mistake that can be seized upon by others who will persist in unreasonable division. People must desist from that bar room brawl, and be hard as nail in refusing unreasonable approaches to a person we're saying is the problem.

You ever hear the child psychologists saying - criticise the behaviour, and not the child? It's the same thing here. And it's very important if society is to ever move forward, just as it is if a parent is to win their parenting battle.

You've got your looking at the outcome you want, man bad, saying it's essential he pays. And then seeing if you can make the law do it. This is the mistake that justifies the bitter opposition. This is the lesson of democracy - it's why they insisted on the nuremberg trials rather than hanging them.

If you are sure he's bad, acting badly, the law doesn't care. But charges must be selected and filed assiduously, and the process must be respected. This process is everything. It's what they gave us to prevent against Trumps - and worse - in the first place. And it worked. It turned this world around. We've largely been in peace for 80 years. Unimaginable before hand. Because that legal process was observed and respected. It set the tone for everything that happened afterwards. Trump has constantly displayed disdain for the law and process. And he is goading people into making mistakes that show they do not properly respect it either. And then both sides have contributed to disrespecting the law.

Remember the UN, the gulf war vote? France abstain, America dismiss the process? That led to this. It's time to reverse that decline, for once and for all.

If he acted illegally, then charges must be brought. If not, then there is nothing to do but condemn the invitation to disregard civility, and be clear about what we feel should have been illegal. But respect the law. Publicly. Overwhelmingly. That is the job here.

And then we can warn others against the games played by this sort of person.
 
No, Seb. There's black and white thinking in your reasoning. Trump must pay. Or Trump must be set free. This is a critical mistake that can be seized upon by others who will persist in unreasonable division. People must desist from that bar room brawl, and be hard as nail in refusing unreasonable approaches to a person we're saying is the problem.

You ever hear the child psychologists saying - criticise the behaviour, and not the child? It's the same thing here. And it's very important if society is to ever move forward, just as it is if a parent is to win their parenting battle.

You've got your looking at the outcome you want, man bad, saying it's essential he pays. And then seeing if you can make the law do it. This is the mistake that justifies the bitter opposition. This is the lesson of democracy - it's why they insisted on the nuremberg trials rather than hanging them.

If you are sure he's bad, acting badly, the law doesn't care. But charges must be selected and filed assiduously, and the process must be respected. This process is everything. It's what they gave us to prevent against Trumps - and worse - in the first place. And it worked. It turned this world around. We've largely been in peace for 80 years. Unimaginable before hand. Because that legal process was observed and respected. It set the tone for everything that happened afterwards. Trump has constantly displayed disdain for the law and process. And he is goading people into making mistakes that show they do not properly respect it either. And then both sides have contributed to disrespecting the law.

Remember the UN, the gulf war vote? France abstain, America dismiss the process? That led to this. It's time to reverse that decline, for once and for all.

If he acted illegally, then charges must be brought. If not, then there is nothing to do but condemn the invitation to disregard civility, and be clear about what we feel should have been illegal. But respect the law. Publicly. Overwhelmingly. That is the job here.

And then we can warn others against the games played by this sort of person.

I'd suggest we find a suitable lamp post in DC or NY ......thats a known fix
 
No, Seb. There's black and white thinking in your reasoning. Trump must pay. Or Trump must be set free. This is a critical mistake that can be seized upon by others who will persist in unreasonable division. People must desist from that bar room brawl, and be hard as nail in refusing unreasonable approaches to a person we're saying is the problem.

You ever hear the child psychologists saying - criticise the behaviour, and not the child? It's the same thing here. And it's very important if society is to ever move forward, just as it is if a parent is to win their parenting battle.

You've got your looking at the outcome you want, man bad, saying it's essential he pays. And then seeing if you can make the law do it. This is the mistake that justifies the bitter opposition. This is the lesson of democracy - it's why they insisted on the nuremberg trials rather than hanging them.

If you are sure he's bad, acting badly, the law doesn't care. But charges must be selected and filed assiduously, and the process must be respected. This process is everything. It's what they gave us to prevent against Trumps - and worse - in the first place. And it worked. It turned this world around. We've largely been in peace for 80 years. Unimaginable before hand. Because that legal process was observed and respected. It set the tone for everything that happened afterwards. Trump has constantly displayed disdain for the law and process. And he is goading people into making mistakes that show they do not properly respect it either. And then both sides have contributed to disrespecting the law.

Remember the UN, the gulf war vote? France abstain, America dismiss the process? That led to this. It's time to reverse that decline, for once and for all.

If he acted illegally, then charges must be brought. If not, then there is nothing to do but condemn the invitation to disregard civility, and be clear about what we feel should have been illegal. But respect the law. Publicly. Overwhelmingly. That is the job here.

And then we can warn others against the games played by this sort of person.
I am not sure where I’ve done anything you’ve just said I have in my previous posts.

I think you are projecting your own concerns of the body politick on my assertion that criminals must be held to account, in this specific case Trump. And are pontificating with no practical measures, as opposed to my post about how he could be held accountable.

But, based on your response, I don’t imagine I will be able to change your perceptions, so I won’t take up your or my time attempting to do so.

I do appreciate your telling me what I think on this subject, despite my actual words. It certainly simplifies things to have someone else decide that for you.
 
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