Coronavirus (2021) thread

[MillionMilesAway]

as would I.

i think the debate around 24hr vaccinations is very interesting, few thoughts;

- given vaccines were nigh on inevitable, could GP practices have spent 6 months calling patients to ascertain willingness/ability to travel between the hours of 7pm and 7am, should it come to that? or were staff simply too busy?

- do the NHS have the staff to do this? given the massive sick rates? would it just smear the current vaccine capacity pointlessly around the clock?

- no shows will be higher at night than in the day - is this an effective/efficient use of very limited staff time?

- is supply able to keep up with 24hr provision?

- do you accept that those who can attend at weird hours are likely to be those who are further down the priority list? is that just a societal price to pay? what if supply dries up for a month and 2 million folks who could go at unsociable hours got theirs while millions of oldies or clinically vulnerable who couldn't or were advised against going at midnight have to wait and risk infection?

- how do you deal with the inevitable accident/crash of a tired patient or the over tired nurse who bungles the jab? i'd doubt this would happen in any significant way outside of a few incidents but the very fact you might be able to point to the time of night presents a real indemnity headache for the NHS (sadly)

- how can you justify wasted shots if there are 1000s willing to take them up at odd hours?

i really think this 24hr thing is very nuanced and i think a main sticking point is how do you deal with the inevitable - the mistake or accident and how that is tied, rightly or wrongly, to time of night.

It would inevitably end up with people in lower bands turning up demanding a vaccine and essentially jumping the queue.

It could be done, but probably on 2 days a week type basis, and only then once all the banded people have been contacted. Then they could say "bring your notification, band 4 and above only"

 

[ayrshire_blue]

I've been criticised on here for trying to see positives when things are at their worst, and also being negative when things perhaps don't seem as bad to many.

I'm sure loads of others do it so this isn't specific to me, but I try to look for the early signs of trends whether good or bad.

The numbers in Scotland today are grim, make no mistake, in particular that hospital figure. However, another day and it's almost 4% lower positivity rate than the corresponding day last week, actual case numbers down a bit too. Looking like clear signs of at the very least a plateau up here, if not a steady turnaround into a decrease in infection rate. Other figures will horrifically keep rising as the result of what we've seen happen in the past month or so, but hopefully the infection figures will continue to drop so that next month can be a better one.

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

as would I.

i think the debate around 24hr vaccinations is very interesting, few thoughts;

- given vaccines were nigh on inevitable, could GP practices have spent 6 months calling patients to ascertain willingness/ability to travel between the hours of 7pm and 7am, should it come to that? or were staff simply too busy?

- do the NHS have the staff to do this? given the massive sick rates? would it just smear the current vaccine capacity pointlessly around the clock?

- no shows will be higher at night than in the day - is this an effective/efficient use of very limited staff time?

- is supply able to keep up with 24hr provision?

- do you accept that those who can attend at weird hours are likely to be those who are further down the priority list? is that just a societal price to pay? what if supply dries up for a month and 2 million folks who could go at unsociable hours got theirs while millions of oldies or clinically vulnerable who couldn't or were advised against going at midnight have to wait and risk infection?

- how do you deal with the inevitable accident/crash of a tired patient or the over tired nurse who bungles the jab? i'd doubt this would happen in any significant way outside of a few incidents but the very fact you might be able to point to the time of night presents a real indemnity headache for the NHS (sadly)

- how can you justify wasted shots if there are 1000s willing to take them up at odd hours?

i really think this 24hr thing is very nuanced and i think a main sticking point is how do you deal with the inevitable - the mistake or accident and how that is tied, rightly or wrongly, to time of night.

The NHS already operates 24/7 and staff do night shifts. Assuming there are enough vaccine staff and supplies of vaccine then why not open 24 hours? The shutdown of Whitehall and our entire political structure over Christmas/New Year was pathetic and made matters worse.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

2.4 million vaccinations in UK up to today according to Boris.

Where did he say this?

 

[twosips]

Do you have the whole statement rather than a random short snippet?

It reads as though they're stating the obvious based on a current situation. Following on from @domalino, if they have no doses and no vaccinators, it's a certainty that there is no clamour.

How can there be a clamour if we presumed it wasn't possible? If it is, then of course there wil be a high demand. Anyway, here are the comments:

No10 rebuffs 24hr vaccine drive as there's 'not a clamour for late appointments'

The Prime Minister's Press Secretary, Allegra Stratton, said there is not currently a rush for appointments after 8pm - though she did say they could be offered late at night in future

www.mirror.co.uk

Ms Stratton told journalists: “If you go and have a chat with the NHS, they will say that when they are asking the people who are being offered vaccinations, they’re asking them when it would suit them, what time.

“If people come back and say they would like an appointment over 8pm then that is something they will consider.

“My understand is at the moment there’s not a clamour for appointments late into the night or early in the morning.

“If it was the case, then it is something the NHS could well consider.

“They are doing their absolute utmost to get the jab into people’s arms as quickly as possible.”

It came as hundreds of thousands of pensioners were urged to drive for up to 90 minutes to get the Covid-19 vaccine, including at seven new ‘super’-centres.

 

[Healdplace]

86,000 in Wales out of 2.4 million jabs across the 68 million UK population.

With Wales having just under one twentieth of that population this is a bit below average numbers in Wales - which would be over 100,000 jabs pro rata.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

How can there be a clamour if we presumed it wasn't possible? If it is, then of course there wil be a high demand. Anyway, here are the comments:

No10 rebuffs 24hr vaccine drive as there's 'not a clamour for late appointments'

The Prime Minister's Press Secretary, Allegra Stratton, said there is not currently a rush for appointments after 8pm - though she did say they could be offered late at night in future

www.mirror.co.uk

Thanks, that's dripping with evidence of a circular argument.

Aside from "go and have a chat with the NHS" which is amazingly clumsy, if asked when they could go, how many are going to say 11pm at night?

Spin is absolutely not what is needed at the moment.

I see Hancock is leading the press conference today.

 

[Healdplace]

England hospital deaths 489 - up from 376 last Monday.

Always low as it is Sunday data so 489 is a lot.

NW numbers absurdly low. Just 13. But they are notorious for the lowest weekend registrations and they will jump up when the missing ones are added mid week.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

It isn't exactly certain that this is a result to restricting businesses who are already implementing social distancing policies. Also can't compare given the spread of a specific strand in London.

The divergence predates the new strain having any significant impact.

 

[M18CTID]

If I was offered one, I'd happily go at 3am.

Me too. I've got up at 3am in the past to go and watch City at away games all over the country and beyond, to queue up at the ticket office for Macclesfield away, and to go on holiday, so I'm sure I can get up at that time to go for a jab just down the road from me.

 

[waspish]

This is interesting. Given this admission, and that many no doubt will now disagree, I think we could see a change of tact on this.

What gets me with this is how do they know people don’t want the vaccine after 8? I bet a big % would.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

2.4 million vaccinations in UK up to today according to Boris.

Don't worry, it's appeared on the BBC now, with him saying 2 million people and 2.4 million jabs.

 

[worsleyweb]

Don't worry, it's appeared on the BBC now, with him saying 2 million people and 2.4 million jabs.

so 400k have had it twice. Great achievement.

 

[domalino]

- do you accept that those who can attend at weird hours are likely to be those who are further down the priority list? is that just a societal price to pay? what if supply dries up for a month and 2 million folks who could go at unsociable hours got theirs while millions of oldies or clinically vulnerable who couldn't or were advised against going at midnight have to wait and risk infection?

- how do you deal with the inevitable accident/crash of a tired patient or the over tired nurse who bungles the jab? i'd doubt this would happen in any significant way outside of a few incidents but the very fact you might be able to point to the time of night presents a real indemnity headache for the NHS (sadly)

I don't think these two really have an merit...hospitals run 24/7 and we expect the same level of care whatever the hour. Nurses/doctors will be on shifts.

 

[domalino]

so 400k have had it twice. Great achievement.

?

Can't tell if this is a joke.

 

[shemnel]

I don't think these two really have an merit...hospitals run 24/7 and we expect the same level of care whatever the hour. Nurses/doctors will be on shifts.

the first point is re using of supply really, not level of care

re the second thing, that's a good point. I suppose then it ties back to availability of staff to perform properly shifted vaccinations.

 

[worsleyweb]

?

Can't tell if this is a joke.

it wasn’t. Can you tell me why you thought it was??

 

[Healdplace]

489 England hospital deaths more details:


3 wks v 2 wks v last wk v TODAY:- Total // NW Total // NW % of England Total


190 / 22 NW / 12%

318 / 43 NW / 14%

376 / 30 NW / 8%

489 / 13 NW / 3% This is very hard not to regard as being a glitch in the data even with the usual low Sunday data from the NW.

 

[Healdplace]

so 400k have had it twice. Great achievement.

Except IF true that is 380, 000 people atop the 21 K who had had a second dose by last Monday.

Not normally odd but for the change in policy on giving two jabs.

And in a week when the media was reporting lots of people being called and told their second appointment date was cancelled until 12 weeks.

So who still got it last week and why and have they told the ones who got it cancelled why they have been put back months and 380,000 others last week did not?

Have they only deferred the Oxford ones? If so many of the over 80s if they have sense will insist on the other one surely.

 

[FantasyIreland]

I'd happily take their spot If louts aren't willing to stay up or get up early to receive the jab.

Dont forget reality TV.....a free spot in their diary would need to revolve around that too.