The Conservative Party

[Rascal]

Just a simple question, have the current government handled the COVID crisis well, or even mediocre?

It is no coincidence that states with RW governments have in general faired worse, you cannot keep "streamlining" the state and hope the state can be competent enough to deliver the necessary response.

If you cut the NHS funding, yes it has been cut in real terms however much money the Government say they are putting in, if you cut that funding then you cut beds, you cut nurses, you cut equipment. If you cut all those things it increases pressure on the NHS and people die.

If you pay furlough rates lower than similar nations then people will have to go to work to feed their families, they will help keep disease transmission rates high and people die.

If you have continually cut the Social safety net that welfare provides year on year, under the guise of austerity, when in reality it is an ideological shrinking of the state, people die.

If you are ideologically committed to the free market and see the free market as the answer to all the problems that arise, the state sector shrinks, the motif becomes profit before people and people die.

If you have an incompetent government that uses a crisis to follow a creed of disaster capitalism, which awards contracts for outsourced services to friends and political donors with no experience of providing those services, people die.

If you have a Government who think they are above the people and do not follow the rules that they themselves set, people become confused at the mixed messaging and then people unnecessarily put themselves at risk as a result, people die.

If you have a government that will only acquiesce to feeding kids because a footballer from Wythenshawe makes them look uncaring and callous, that Government then looks responsible for more of societies ills and people die

If you have a Prime Minister who is a fat lazy incompetent narcissistic lying bastard in charge people lose confidence in his leadership, the nations solidarity around the necessary measures decreases and then people die.

If you have a Government who all of a sudden seems to care about kids education and sends them back to school against all the prevailing evidence then people die.

If you have a government that values profit over people then people die.

If you have a media that is majority right wing and pushes the idiotic agenda of its owners then people die.

If you have a Government that uses Boosterism over reality it raises false hopes and leads to social disorientation and then people die.

If you allow Libertarian cranks time on air to spread the message of selfishness and individuality that abounds in Libertarian circles, people die.

If you vote Tory, people die.

There will however still be millions of silly cunts who line up at polling booths across the country come election day who vote against their own interests and for the interests of capital. All the poor people who have died, all those families lives that have been ruined, all those jobs lost, all those starving kids, all those homeless people, all the small business owners who have closed, all the hard work of magnificent staff, all the selfless stoicism of every key worker in the land will be forgotten and crosses will be placed by Tory candidates across the land and not one single lesson will be learnt, not one single Government minister will face charges of manslaughter, the PM will still be buffooning about lying his tits off to all and sundry and the capitalist merry go round of profit before people will persist more than likely gather pace as the NHS is sold off, wages are cut and the poorest will pay the cost of the economic crisis brought about by the sheer incompetence of the worst government in UK history.


All the above came to pass because the people of this country were told lies, they were propagandised into believing utter nonsense because the capitalists were scared of paying their fair share of the nations tax take.

Always remember this , people voted for this and as much as i feel sorry for everyone who has died or suffered through this pandemic, I hold each and every person who voted for this clusterfuck of a government responsible. I hope each and every one of you who voted for this bunch of incompetent cunts is utterly ashamed of what you did, because you are also responsible for allowing people to die.

 

[urban genie]

Just a simple question, have the current government handled the COVID crisis well, or even mediocre?

Terribly, with cronyism, apathy at times and incompetence.

You have to actually give a shit about the people you serve to be effective. These tories don't.

The two things they will try to trumpet will be furlough and vaccine roll out, the furlough they hesitated about originally and were embarrased into doing it.
On the vaccine, well we rolled it put first to great fannfare on Dec 8th whilst most of the other 20+ countries presently vacinating rolled out late december or in the last few weeks, a fair few of those nations are vaccinating at a faster pace than us and time will only tell if the government will reach their targets and promises

 

[yozzerblue]

It is no coincidence that states with RW governments have in general faired worse, you cannot keep "streamlining" the state and hope the state can be competent enough to deliver the necessary response.

If you cut the NHS funding, yes it has been cut in real terms however much money the Government say they are putting in, if you cut that funding then you cut beds, you cut nurses, you cut equipment. If you cut all those things it increases pressure on the NHS and people die.

If you pay furlough rates lower than similar nations then people will have to go to work to feed their families, they will help keep disease transmission rates high and people die.

If you have continually cut the Social safety net that welfare provides year on year, under the guise of austerity, when in reality it is an ideological shrinking of the state, people die.

If you are ideologically committed to the free market and see the free market as the answer to all the problems that arise, the state sector shrinks, the motif becomes profit before people and people die.

If you have an incompetent government that uses a crisis to follow a creed of disaster capitalism, which awards contracts for outsourced services to friends and political donors with no experience of providing those services, people die.

If you have a Government who think they are above the people and do not follow the rules that they themselves set, people become confused at the mixed messaging and then people unnecessarily put themselves at risk as a result, people die.

If you have a government that will only acquiesce to feeding kids because a footballer from Wythenshawe makes them look uncaring and callous, that Government then looks responsible for more of societies ills and people die

If you have a Prime Minister who is a fat lazy incompetent narcissistic lying bastard in charge people lose confidence in his leadership, the nations solidarity around the necessary measures decreases and then people die.

If you have a Government who all of a sudden seems to care about kids education and sends them back to school against all the prevailing evidence then people die.

If you have a government that values profit over people then people die.

If you have a media that is majority right wing and pushes the idiotic agenda of its owners then people die.

If you have a Government that uses Boosterism over reality it raises false hopes and leads to social disorientation and then people die.

If you allow Libertarian cranks time on air to spread the message of selfishness and individuality that abounds in Libertarian circles, people die.

If you vote Tory, people die.

There will however still be millions of silly cunts who line up at polling booths across the country come election day who vote against their own interests and for the interests of capital. All the poor people who have died, all those families lives that have been ruined, all those jobs lost, all those starving kids, all those homeless people, all the small business owners who have closed, all the hard work of magnificent staff, all the selfless stoicism of every key worker in the land will be forgotten and crosses will be placed by Tory candidates across the land and not one single lesson will be learnt, not one single Government minister will face charges of manslaughter, the PM will still be buffooning about lying his tits off to all and sundry and the capitalist merry go round of profit before people will persist more than likely gather pace as the NHS is sold off, wages are cut and the poorest will pay the cost of the economic crisis brought about by the sheer incompetence of the worst government in UK history.


All the above came to pass because the people of this country were told lies, they were propagandised into believing utter nonsense because the capitalists were scared of paying their fair share of the nations tax take.

Always remember this , people voted for this and as much as i feel sorry for everyone who has died or suffered through this pandemic, I hold each and every person who voted for this clusterfuck of a government responsible. I hope each and every one of you who voted for this bunch of incompetent cunts is utterly ashamed of what you did, because you are also responsible for allowing people to die.

Good post.

 

[Ban-jani]

Terribly, with cronyism, apathy at times and incompetence.

You have to actually give a shit about the people you serve to be effective. These tories don't.

The two things they will try to trumpet will be furlough and vaccine roll out, the furlough they hesitated about originally and were embarrased into doing it.
On the vaccine, well we rolled it put first to great fannfare on Dec 8th whilst most of the other 20+ countries presently vacinating rolled out late december or in the last few weeks, a fair few of those nations are vaccinating at a faster pace than us and time will only tell if the government will reach their targets and promises

Disagree on the furlough.

Most people were utterly shocked and even the opposition didn’t know what to come back with when they announced it.

I don’t think it can be underestimated how many jobs they’ve saved and I know the self employed have been fucked but I genuinely think they had to draw the line somewhere.

 

[urban genie]

Many countries introduced or updated their already existing workers protection schemes

New wage subsidy scheme
UK​	Yes
Australia​	Yes
Canada​	Yes
Denmark​	Yes. Existing scheme also allows workers whose hours are cut to claim pro-rated unemployment benefit (90% wages).
France​	No, pre-existing scheme extended to cover companies affected by crisis
Germany​	No, pre-existing scheme extended to cover workers for longer period.
Ireland​	Yes
Sweden​	No – pre-existing scheme, percentage paid by state increased
US​	Yes – PPP offers loans of up to 2.5 times average month's paybill in 2019, which turn into grants if staff retained and wages not cut; ERC offers grants worth 50% of current payroll costs. Existing but rarely used scheme also allows workers whose hours are cut to claim pro-rated UI.

Many of the european countries had already implemented it, Labour, SNP, Lib dems, Greens had all called for a scheme to be set up while the gov dilly-dallied and there was calls by business and criticism online for a lack of urgency to set it up.

There was no shock that they did it, they had too but there was suprise they were so helpful and commited as it goes against tory instincts to give money away.

 

[metalblue]

It is no coincidence that states with RW governments have in general faired worse, you cannot keep "streamlining" the state and hope the state can be competent enough to deliver the necessary response.

If you cut the NHS funding, yes it has been cut in real terms however much money the Government say they are putting in, if you cut that funding then you cut beds, you cut nurses, you cut equipment. If you cut all those things it increases pressure on the NHS and people die.

If you pay furlough rates lower than similar nations then people will have to go to work to feed their families, they will help keep disease transmission rates high and people die.

If you have continually cut the Social safety net that welfare provides year on year, under the guise of austerity, when in reality it is an ideological shrinking of the state, people die.

If you are ideologically committed to the free market and see the free market as the answer to all the problems that arise, the state sector shrinks, the motif becomes profit before people and people die.

If you have an incompetent government that uses a crisis to follow a creed of disaster capitalism, which awards contracts for outsourced services to friends and political donors with no experience of providing those services, people die.

If you have a Government who think they are above the people and do not follow the rules that they themselves set, people become confused at the mixed messaging and then people unnecessarily put themselves at risk as a result, people die.

If you have a government that will only acquiesce to feeding kids because a footballer from Wythenshawe makes them look uncaring and callous, that Government then looks responsible for more of societies ills and people die

If you have a Prime Minister who is a fat lazy incompetent narcissistic lying bastard in charge people lose confidence in his leadership, the nations solidarity around the necessary measures decreases and then people die.

If you have a Government who all of a sudden seems to care about kids education and sends them back to school against all the prevailing evidence then people die.

If you have a government that values profit over people then people die.

If you have a media that is majority right wing and pushes the idiotic agenda of its owners then people die.

If you have a Government that uses Boosterism over reality it raises false hopes and leads to social disorientation and then people die.

If you allow Libertarian cranks time on air to spread the message of selfishness and individuality that abounds in Libertarian circles, people die.

If you vote Tory, people die.

There will however still be millions of silly cunts who line up at polling booths across the country come election day who vote against their own interests and for the interests of capital. All the poor people who have died, all those families lives that have been ruined, all those jobs lost, all those starving kids, all those homeless people, all the small business owners who have closed, all the hard work of magnificent staff, all the selfless stoicism of every key worker in the land will be forgotten and crosses will be placed by Tory candidates across the land and not one single lesson will be learnt, not one single Government minister will face charges of manslaughter, the PM will still be buffooning about lying his tits off to all and sundry and the capitalist merry go round of profit before people will persist more than likely gather pace as the NHS is sold off, wages are cut and the poorest will pay the cost of the economic crisis brought about by the sheer incompetence of the worst government in UK history.


All the above came to pass because the people of this country were told lies, they were propagandised into believing utter nonsense because the capitalists were scared of paying their fair share of the nations tax take.

Always remember this , people voted for this and as much as i feel sorry for everyone who has died or suffered through this pandemic, I hold each and every person who voted for this clusterfuck of a government responsible. I hope each and every one of you who voted for this bunch of incompetent cunts is utterly ashamed of what you did, because you are also responsible for allowing people to die.

The majority of that is generalisations. There are 2 parts of that that relate to the question on COVID so I’ll debate them with you.

Firstly you talk about real term cuts to NHS funding based on increased demand on services (ie the money has gone up but not enough to keep up with the demand). And you are right. But let us look at comparable evidence, the UK spends $4,192 per capita on healthcare and has recorded 82,146 excess deaths (excess deaths compared to norms, not COVID reported).

For comparison France spends $4,600 and has 55,186 excess deaths; Germany spends $5,551 and has 17,290 excess deaths. Both these countries have spent more on health and have faired better even when comparing to excess deaths per 100,000 people. On the flip side you have Spain spending $3,248 and has 69,702 excess deaths and Russia spends about $586 and has 269,392 excess deaths. Both of these countries spend less and have faired worse per 100,000 people. So it is likely there is a provable nexus between healthcare spending and deaths from COVID. We must learn from this and improve.

Your second point on furlough rates being lower to comparable countries is simply unprovable based on the available evidence. Whilst comparable countries (France and Germany) have higher ceilings on maximum payments the standard % paid of salary is less than UK and our average salary is broadly the same (UK £1987 / France £1983 / Germany £2256) . Thus the highly paid still receive plenty in France and Germany but your average worker is unlikely to be better off and possibly worse off. Something I’m sure you would be opposed to. Additionally both the Germany and France encourage employees to go to work for some period whereas the UK demand you don’t so I would suggest your assertion that people are forced to go to work to feed their families due to our furlough being so low is somewhat wide of reality.

 

[metalblue]

Disagree on the furlough.

Most people were utterly shocked and even the opposition didn’t know what to come back with when they announced it.

I don’t think it can be underestimated how many jobs they’ve saved and I know the self employed have been fucked but I genuinely think they had to draw the line somewhere.

Unfortunately a number of the self employed are paying the price for cooking the books in the past and paying themselves minimum wage

 

[Ric]

Unfortunately a number of the self employed are paying the price for cooking the books in the past and paying themselves minimum wage

Limited company directors largely paying themselves via dividends is not “cooking the books”, and certainly isn’t justification for the complete lack of financial support given to 3m self-employed people by the government during the pandemic.

 

[metalblue]

Limited company directors largely paying themselves via dividends is not “cooking the books”, and certainly isn’t justification for the complete lack of financial support given to 3m self-employed people by the government during the pandemic.

That I agree with that and they should be able to treat that as they did with commission payments. It’s not like the correct tax wasn’t paid so it is entirely traceable.

I was referring more to my mate who is a builder and did a lot of cash in hand work. And he has a few blokes he knows in similar situations.

 

[jay_mcfc]

Axed. Issue raised and dealt with.

‘Unacceptable’ lockdown food parcels axed by UK school chain

Outrage over quality of provision for children prompts action from Harris Federation and apology from Chartwells

amp.ft.com

Fuckers

Dealt with? We're in an age where this particular government makes bad decision after bad decision and the only way things get 'dealt with' is because they are shamed into it by social media and the odd celebrity. U-turn after u-turn, poor decision after poor decision, dodgy deal after dodgy deal. Rinse, repeat. It's no way to govern.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

It is no coincidence that states with RW governments have in general faired worse, you cannot keep "streamlining" the state and hope the state can be competent enough to deliver the necessary response.

If you cut the NHS funding, yes it has been cut in real terms however much money the Government say they are putting in, if you cut that funding then you cut beds, you cut nurses, you cut equipment. If you cut all those things it increases pressure on the NHS and people die.

If you pay furlough rates lower than similar nations then people will have to go to work to feed their families, they will help keep disease transmission rates high and people die.

If you have continually cut the Social safety net that welfare provides year on year, under the guise of austerity, when in reality it is an ideological shrinking of the state, people die.

If you are ideologically committed to the free market and see the free market as the answer to all the problems that arise, the state sector shrinks, the motif becomes profit before people and people die.

If you have an incompetent government that uses a crisis to follow a creed of disaster capitalism, which awards contracts for outsourced services to friends and political donors with no experience of providing those services, people die.

If you have a Government who think they are above the people and do not follow the rules that they themselves set, people become confused at the mixed messaging and then people unnecessarily put themselves at risk as a result, people die.

If you have a government that will only acquiesce to feeding kids because a footballer from Wythenshawe makes them look uncaring and callous, that Government then looks responsible for more of societies ills and people die

If you have a Prime Minister who is a fat lazy incompetent narcissistic lying bastard in charge people lose confidence in his leadership, the nations solidarity around the necessary measures decreases and then people die.

If you have a Government who all of a sudden seems to care about kids education and sends them back to school against all the prevailing evidence then people die.

If you have a government that values profit over people then people die.

If you have a media that is majority right wing and pushes the idiotic agenda of its owners then people die.

If you have a Government that uses Boosterism over reality it raises false hopes and leads to social disorientation and then people die.

If you allow Libertarian cranks time on air to spread the message of selfishness and individuality that abounds in Libertarian circles, people die.

If you vote Tory, people die.

There will however still be millions of silly cunts who line up at polling booths across the country come election day who vote against their own interests and for the interests of capital. All the poor people who have died, all those families lives that have been ruined, all those jobs lost, all those starving kids, all those homeless people, all the small business owners who have closed, all the hard work of magnificent staff, all the selfless stoicism of every key worker in the land will be forgotten and crosses will be placed by Tory candidates across the land and not one single lesson will be learnt, not one single Government minister will face charges of manslaughter, the PM will still be buffooning about lying his tits off to all and sundry and the capitalist merry go round of profit before people will persist more than likely gather pace as the NHS is sold off, wages are cut and the poorest will pay the cost of the economic crisis brought about by the sheer incompetence of the worst government in UK history.


All the above came to pass because the people of this country were told lies, they were propagandised into believing utter nonsense because the capitalists were scared of paying their fair share of the nations tax take.

Always remember this , people voted for this and as much as i feel sorry for everyone who has died or suffered through this pandemic, I hold each and every person who voted for this clusterfuck of a government responsible. I hope each and every one of you who voted for this bunch of incompetent cunts is utterly ashamed of what you did, because you are also responsible for allowing people to die.

And they told us Corbyn was the problem.

 

[twosips]

Hancock is utterly despicable isn't he?

 

[jay_mcfc]

Hancock is utterly despicable isn't he?

Most of them are. 320 of them voted against free school meals but I bet all of them are 'glad' that Rashford shamed them into another u-turn as it now looks so good that they are acting in the interest of the kids. Until photos of the 'hampers' were released, of course.

 

[metalblue]

Dealt with? We're in an age where this particular government makes bad decision after bad decision and the only way things get 'dealt with' is because they are shamed into it by social media and the odd celebrity. U-turn after u-turn, poor decision after poor decision, dodgy deal after dodgy deal. Rinse, repeat. It's no way to govern.

Yes dealt with

I’m really not sure how many more times or ways I can say the government are not responsible for the content of that food parcel.

The government provide the funding to the LEA, the LEA deliver to the school said funding who in turn either provide the meals or employ a firm to do this.

In this case Harris Foundation was the school (it’s actually a group of schools) who were responsible for the contracting of services to Chartwells. As soon as this came to light and HF investigated they cancelled their contract with Chartwells to ALL of their 40 or so schools. This all happened within 12 hours.

So yes the matter was dealt with by the signatories to the contract, Chartwells have suffered significant loss of revenue and reputation.

 

[jay_mcfc]

Yes dealt with

I’m really not sure how many more times or ways I can say the government are not responsible for the content of that food parcel.

The government provide the funding to the LEA, the LEA deliver to the school said funding who in turn either provide the meals or employ a firm to do this.

In this case Harris Foundation was the school (it’s actually a group of schools) who were responsible for the contracting of services to Chartwells. As soon as this came to light and HF investigated they cancelled their contract with Chartwells to ALL of their 40 or so schools. This all happened within 12 hours.

So yes the matter was dealt with by the signatories to the contract, Chartwells have suffered significant loss of revenue and reputation.

I had a feeling this would be your retort. It must be difficult having to defend this government every week as they crash from one crisis to the next.

Again, it was dealt with because of social media and Marcus Rashford. They were shamed into acting. As they have been over and over again.

But let's not forget how this all started. By the Tories creating a storm about a tiny minority of some parents using vouchers in a way that wasn't intended. This led to the voucher scheme being taken away and a big fat dodgy contract being handed out to their mates. The Tories might have been shamed into dealing with it but you can bet your bottom dollar that whoever signed off on that contract knew that Chartwells were never going to provide actual £30 worth of food to a family.

What is worse: The odd parent misusing the vouchers or a private company syphoning off a huge percentage of money intended for the poorest families in society?

The only way this can be dealt with is by returning to the voucher scheme. No more dodgy deals.

 

[Rascal]

And they told us Corbyn was the problem.

Well he met the IRA and supposedly did other really bad stuff.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Annnnd they're off...... trying to defend the indefensible.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Yes dealt with

I’m really not sure how many more times or ways I can say the government are not responsible for the content of that food parcel.

The government provide the funding to the LEA, the LEA deliver to the school said funding who in turn either provide the meals or employ a firm to do this.

In this case Harris Foundation was the school (it’s actually a group of schools) who were responsible for the contracting of services to Chartwells. As soon as this came to light and HF investigated they cancelled their contract with Chartwells to ALL of their 40 or so schools. This all happened within 12 hours.

So yes the matter was dealt with by the signatories to the contract, Chartwells have suffered significant loss of revenue and reputation.

You are rather spoiling the narrative of tory MP's going through each lunch and removing things :-)

 

[metalblue]

I had a feeling this would be your retort. It must be difficult having to defend this government every week as they crash from one crisis to the next.

Again, it was dealt with because of social media and Marcus Rashford. They were shamed into acting. As they have been over and over again.

But let's not forget how this all started. By the Tories creating a storm about a tiny minority of some parents using vouchers in a way that wasn't intended. This led to the voucher scheme being taken away and a big fat dodgy contract being handed out to their mates. The Tories might have been shamed into dealing with it but you can bet your bottom dollar that whoever signed off on that contract knew that Chartwells were never going to provide actual £30 worth of food to a family.

What is worse: The odd parent misusing the vouchers or a private company syphoning off a huge percentage of money intended for the poorest families in society?

The only way this can be dealt with is by returning to the voucher scheme. No more dodgy deals.

I don’t defend them particularly mate and I was only talking about this particular food parcel not the government as a whole.

Looking at what you said:

Rashfords campaign. So the government originally figured we don’t feed kids during school holidays so we aren’t going to now. I understand the point they were making but it completely lacked any form of compassion or thought. At some point and for reasons we will never know it fairly quickly realised it needed to provide support during school holidays. But whatever their reasons the government fucked up, they should not have said “we don’t do that” they should have said “we will look in to it and revert”. So we agree on this although if they were as uncaring as they made out surely they would have stuck to their guns here?

On the vouchers, personally I don’t even think that is the best way but it’s better than food parcels...fucks sake it’s like they are some sort of refugee. Just give people cash in their bank. Sorted and carries not a whiff of social stigma, people are generally quite private and don’t like their business being broadcast. Unfortunately our politics is so often about focusing on the few not the many when criticising the other. Most people can look after themselves and their kids perfectly well. All hues do it.

I can’t agree with the point about this food parcels scheme being about dodgy deals. The government will want £30 of food provided not pictures of half full boxes because some cock is on the fiddle. It’s an easy accusation to make and often impossible to refute or prove. So it sticks. Especially if they have form so I get why you would immediately think it. But in this case they were far enough removed from the contract to legitimately say “nowt to do with me”. There is plenty of other stuff we can look at and say this smells a bit but I just don’t see that being the case here

 

[metalblue]

You are rather spoiling the narrative of tory MP's going through each lunch and removing things :-)

Where the fuck is Cummings when they need him? Sometimes the best approach is to say “nowt to do with us, we are outraged” rather than dig a hole that didn’t need digging