The Conservative Party

Ifwecouldjust....... said:
Name a policy implemented by the Conservatives that improves your or your families life

I'll qualify that ...... that was not an Eu directive.
Click to expand...
The growth of the private sector has made my working class family earn a middle class living. Not just me, my parents and grand parents (before they retired).

That’s the biggest policy of all, from the last 50 years and it’s not just my family, the private market lifts millions out of poverty across the world, where socialist states like Cuba and Venezuela keep their population in it.

The regression of social conservatism, including that perpetuated by the so-called Conservative Party as well, has degenerated the social fabric of the nation.

Of course, some socialist policy is needed and is appropriate in particular industries, such as health, rail, mail and possibly utilities but socialism as an ideology to be poured out across the board in all industries, has shown time and time and time again that it simply doesn’t work.

This is what socialism gets you-
There are many factors to consider when trying to determine what is the poverty rate in Cuba. At first glance, it may appear that at least two-thirds of the Cuban population currently live in poverty. The state salary is a mere $20 per month, well below the international poverty line of $2 per day.
Click to expand...
 
Ban-jani said:
The growth of the private sector has made my working class family earn a middle class living. Not just me, my parents and grand parents (before they retired).

That’s the biggest policy of all, from the last 50 years and it’s not just my family, the private market lifts millions out of poverty across the world, where socialist states like Cuba and Venezuela keep their population in it.

The regression of social conservatism, including that perpetuated by the so-called Conservative Party as well, has degenerated the social fabric of the nation.

Of course, some socialist policy is needed and is appropriate in particular industries, such as health, rail, mail and possibly utilities but socialism as an ideology to be poured out across the board in all industries, has shown time and time and time again that it simply doesn’t work.

This is what socialism gets you-
Click to expand...

But if it only costs them $0.10 to feed their family for the day it doesn’t matter.

I do agree we need socialist policy and as @Ifwecouldjust....... said we have much to be grateful for from it.

But we have also had some absolutely shocking socialist policies and attempts at social engineering. Birmingham is a great example of a once prosperous city (earnings over London) and Labour not wanting wealth and jobs to be centred around a single city made it uneconomical for new companies to start up there (and instead start up in other cities) basically turning Birmingham into a poverty stricken shit hole reliant on car manufacturing which was characterised not by quality but by unions and strikes.
 
metalblue said:
Lower taxes. That improves my and my families life and millions of others.
Click to expand...


To the depravation to others and our services..... You happy to pay less so that others have little access to things like libraries / mental health services.... have six years worth of pensions (that they and their employers paid into) stolen off them ? For disabled people to lose access to their mobility cars , for people who've lived in the same house all their lives to pay an extra £60 to stay there because their spouse died?

if you actually thought about it you might not sleep so soundly.
 
metalblue said:
But if it only costs them $0.10 to feed their family for the day it doesn’t matter.

I do agree we need socialist policy and as @Ifwecouldjust....... said we have much to be grateful for from it.

But we have also had some absolutely shocking socialist policies and attempts at social engineering. Birmingham is a great example of a once prosperous city (earnings over London) and Labour not wanting wealth and jobs to be centred around a single city made it uneconomical for new companies to start up there (and instead start up in other cities) basically turning Birmingham into a poverty stricken shit hole reliant on car manufacturing which was characterised not by quality but by unions and strikes.
Click to expand...
It really really doesn’t -

Cost of Living in Cuba. Prices in Cuba. Updated Nov 2025

Average prices of more than 40 products and services in Cuba. Prices of restaurants, food, transportation, utilities and housing are included.
www.numbeo.com www.numbeo.com
 
Ban-jani said:
The growth of the private sector has made my working class family earn a middle class living. Not just me, my parents and grand parents (before they retired).

That’s the biggest policy of all, from the last 50 years and it’s not just my family, the private market lifts millions out of poverty across the world, where socialist states like Cuba and Venezuela keep their population in it.

The regression of social conservatism, including that perpetuated by the so-called Conservative Party as well, has degenerated the social fabric of the nation.

Of course, some socialist policy is needed and is appropriate in particular industries, such as health, rail, mail and possibly utilities but socialism as an ideology to be poured out across the board in all industries, has shown time and time and time again that it simply doesn’t work.

This is what socialism gets you-
Click to expand...

What about when you measure it against comparable countries in the same region?

Population in millions


Cuba 11.33

DR 10.74

Jamaica: 2.94

See graph in link below


Obviously Jamaica is much smaller, but its their rate of growth that is important. I think it is a bit more complicated than saying country x is a failure because of socialism when they rate favourably to other countries in the region and they have impressive achievements despite a decades long blockade.


In the mid-1980s Cuba developed the world’s first Meningitis B vaccine. Today, it leads in oncology drugs. In 2012 Cuba patented the first therapeutic cancer vaccine.
Click to expand...


theconversation.com

Cuba is poor, but who is to blame – Castro or 50 years of US blockade?

Critics point to low income and food shortages, but when judging the Cuban leader it’s important to look at the whole story.
theconversation.com theconversation.com
 
Ban-jani said:
It really really doesn’t -

Cost of Living in Cuba. Prices in Cuba. Updated Nov 2025

Average prices of more than 40 products and services in Cuba. Prices of restaurants, food, transportation, utilities and housing are included.
www.numbeo.com www.numbeo.com
Click to expand...


Simply due to the sanctions imposed by right wing capitalist countries ... as ive pointed out before Cuba has the highest literacy rate in the world (the UK has an average reading age of 7 - 9 years of age - despite our ''education system'' ) and more doctors per capita than anywhere else in the world and above us in the provision of the best health service.

When are you going to cotton on that the first thing the capitalists do is to impose sanctions and crush anything that looks like a socialist state?
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
To the depravation to others and our services..... You happy to pay less so that others have little access to things like libraries / mental health services.... have six years worth of pensions (that they and their employers paid into) stolen off them ? For disabled people to lose access to their mobility cars , for people who've lived in the same house all their lives to pay an extra £60 to stay there because their spouse died?

if you actually thought about it you might not sleep so soundly.
Click to expand...

You didn’t ask that thou mate, you asked for a policy that had improved my life. And up until now that has. But I’d pay more for most of that list of yours and I’d even add to it, firstly I’d rather they didn’t piss the money away they currently get but that might be a forlorn hope!

More tax might not be popular with many (well it’s always popular with those who don’t pay it) but maybe I’ve just got to a point in life when I’m no longer trying to fix my own problems and can see the problems of those around me.

Gordon Brown stole from millions of peoples pensions. Is that what your talking about?
 
Fode N The Hole said:
What about when you measure it against comparable countries in the same region?

Population in millions


Cuba 11.33

DR 10.74

Jamaica: 2.94

See graph in link below


Obviously Jamaica is much smaller, but its their rate of growth that is important. I think it is a bit more complicated than saying country x is a failure because of socialism when they rate favourably to other countries in the region and they have impressive achievements despite a decades long blockade.





theconversation.com

Cuba is poor, but who is to blame – Castro or 50 years of US blockade?

Critics point to low income and food shortages, but when judging the Cuban leader it’s important to look at the whole story.
theconversation.com theconversation.com
Click to expand...
Ask the people of Cuba what they think of socialism and ask Venezuelans.

Neither country would have anywhere near the poverty rates as it does now.

Blaming the US for it doesn’t wash, the Cubans could trade with other areas of the world and focus more on their tourism industry.

The question is, is socialism making Cuba a better country or not?

I think you know the answer.
 
metalblue said:
You can’t just measure something in the jobs it creates when they all need paying thou mate. That takes actual money, you know the stuff that comes from making a profit.

And if you tax people to remove all their profit to create jobs just for the sake of it people will pack their shit up and leave. As thatcher said the problem with socialism is you eventually run out of other peoples money. And she was right.

You can run companies in a more socialist way like co-ops
Click to expand...
Thatcher was not right, she was influenced economically by Joesph, who took his inspiration from Hayek. Hayek amongst others brought us Neo-Liberalism, which has resulted in higher inequality and concentrated wealth in the hands of fewer people. Even the rich are being exploited by the super rich under neo0liberalism because the ones at the top benefit most. Its no wonder that there are countless think tanks based around neo-liberal ideas funded by the likes of multi billionaires Koch and the Barclay brothers.

If people who are taxed pack up and leave then they are welcome to leave, society does not exist to be raped and pillaged by the owners of capital, they have a civic duty, this is a crass capitalist weapon used to scare people, It is also a fact that the supposed beacon of capitalism USA had its highest growth when taxes were highest and Union power strongest. Because surprise surprise workers are tax payers and consumers as well and they have a higher propensity to spend than those with wealth who have a higher propensity to save.

Governments can buy up all available labour which of course capitalists hate as they want competition in the job market. This is why capitalism is so inefficient, it wastes resources that Socialism would not waste, i-e Labour. Capitalism uses Labour to make profit, what Marx called surplus value. They can make goods at cost and profit on Labour. As Labour is what most people have as the only thing they can sell they can be exploited because the capitalist knows it is the only thing of worth they have to sell.

It is quite amusing that it has taken a pandemic to prove Thatcher wrong, she was a pandemic in herself. Sunak has proved that magic money trees exist, after years of Tories falsely claiming they don't exist, surprise surprise they do, because the state has the power to create money. Don't buy this inflation shit either there are reasons why inflation happens and its not because of creating money.


You Tories have existed too long on a catalogue of lies and need to be called out. Shit like the economy running like a household and your kids will be your paying your debts. What a load of bollox.

Tory cunts,
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
Simply due to the sanctions imposed by right wing capitalist countries ... as ive pointed out before Cuba has the highest literacy rate in the world (the UK has an average reading age of 7 - 9 years of age - despite our ''education system'' ) and more doctors per capita than anywhere else in the world and above us in the provision of the best health service.

When are you going to cotton on that the first thing the capitalists do is to impose sanctions and crush anything that looks like a socialist state?
Click to expand...
Which countries have sanctions against Cuba other than the US?

Ahh the old fudged education statistic with Cuba. I am not going argue our education system is a joke but guess what? Our education system is a socialist policy too, what did you think it was?

I’ll repeat, 66.6% of Cubans live below the world wide poverty line, comfortably.

Why do you think the government have made it illegal to leave there as a resident? Why people do so illegally still and why people don’t relocate to their, compared to capitalist countries?

I’ve mentioned it before, I work with a girl who fled Venezuela. She absolutely despises socialism and says it’s destroyed her country.
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
Name a policy implemented by the Conservatives that improves your or your families life

I'll qualify that ...... that was not an Eu directive.
Click to expand...
I know that one, its er, =m, it will come to me, its er er er er , , errmmm ,..

No its gone.






In all seriousness, I can not think of one thing any Tory government has done in my lifetime that has improved my life and I am being honest.
 
Ban-jani said:
Which countries have sanctions against Cuba other than the US?

Ahh the old fudged education statistic with Cuba. I am not going argue our education system is a joke but guess what? Our education system is a socialist policy too, what did you think it was?

I’ll repeat, 66.6% of Cubans live below the world wide poverty line, comfortably.

Why do you think the government have made it illegal to leave there as a resident? Why people do so illegally still and why people don’t relocate to their, compared to capitalist countries?

I’ve mentioned it before, I work with a girl who fled Venezuela. She absolutely despises socialism and says it’s destroyed her country.
Click to expand...


I would point you to the Helms-Burton Act of 1996 which was passed by the USA. The act punishes other nations and companies that do business with Cuba.
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
I would point you to the Helms-Burton Act of 1996 which was passed by the USA. The act punishes other nations and companies that do business with Cuba.
Click to expand...
And how did it play out in international trade?

Did the other western democratic nations pass other acts to counter Helms-Burton or did the just go along with it?
 
Ban-jani said:
Ask the people of Cuba what they think of socialism and ask Venezuelans.

Neither country would have anywhere near the poverty rates as it does now.

Blaming the US for it doesn’t wash, the Cubans could trade with other areas of the world and focus more on their tourism industry.

The question is, is socialism making Cuba a better country or not?

I think you know the answer.
Click to expand...

It covers all businesses that have American operations and Clinton extended it in 1999 to cover foreign subsidiaries of American companies.

If sanctions had no effects, why would they be kept in place for so long?

Are you familiar with the Monroe Doctrine?
 
Rascal said:
If people who are taxed pack up and leave then they are welcome to leave, society does not exist to be raped and pillaged by the owners of capital, they have a civic duty, this is a crass capitalist weapon used to scare people
Click to expand...

This self same argument was made about the bankers in 2008 " if you tax them they will all leave " - live there were suddenly thousands of banking vacancies in Switzerland or everybody's spouse really wanted to move to Germany its just bollocks.
Ironically its likely to be Brexit that has this effect as the jobs actually do move abroad and the bankers go with them.
 
Fode N The Hole said:
It covers all businesses that have American operations and Clinton extended it in 1999 to cover foreign subsidiaries of American companies.

If sanctions had no effects, why would they be kept in place for so long?

Are you familiar with the Monroe Doctrine?
Click to expand...
I never said the sanctions have no impact but the sanctions aren’t the main reason why the country is so poor.

Most other western countries do trade with Cuba and I don’t believe blaming it all on the US washes.

Even if it did, they’re an undemocratic country that brought sanctions on themselves when they shot down two passenger planes.
 
Rascal said:
Thatcher was not right, she was influenced economically by Joesph, who took his inspiration from Hayek. Hayek amongst others brought us Neo-Liberalism, which has resulted in higher inequality and concentrated wealth in the hands of fewer people. Even the rich are being exploited by the super rich under neo0liberalism because the ones at the top benefit most. Its no wonder that there are countless think tanks based around neo-liberal ideas funded by the likes of multi billionaires Koch and the Barclay brothers.

If people who are taxed pack up and leave then they are welcome to leave, society does not exist to be raped and pillaged by the owners of capital, they have a civic duty, this is a crass capitalist weapon used to scare people, It is also a fact that the supposed beacon of capitalism USA had its highest growth when taxes were highest and Union power strongest. Because surprise surprise workers are tax payers and consumers as well and they have a higher propensity to spend than those with wealth who have a higher propensity to save.

Governments can buy up all available labour which of course capitalists hate as they want competition in the job market. This is why capitalism is so inefficient, it wastes resources that Socialism would not waste, i-e Labour. Capitalism uses Labour to make profit, what Marx called surplus value. They can make goods at cost and profit on Labour. As Labour is what most people have as the only thing they can sell they can be exploited because the capitalist knows it is the only thing of worth they have to sell.

It is quite amusing that it has taken a pandemic to prove Thatcher wrong, she was a pandemic in herself. Sunak has proved that magic money trees exist, after years of Tories falsely claiming they don't exist, surprise surprise they do, because the state has the power to create money. Don't buy this inflation shit either there are reasons why inflation happens and its not because of creating money.


You Tories have existed too long on a catalogue of lies and need to be called out. Shit like the economy running like a household and your kids will be your paying your debts. What a load of bollox.

Tory cunts,
Click to expand...

Is your proposal to have the government own ALL the output and ALL the jobs? And why would you favour the political elite over the capitalist elite?

The money tree does not exist, it’s just borrowing. And it needs to be paid back.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top